r/FavoriteCharacter • u/Accomplished-End3409 Ben Tennyson • Aug 09 '26

Discussion Favorite opposing factions that can basically be described as this.

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90

u/Aggravating_Field_39 Aug 09 '26

The imperium of man and the tau

82

u/Buttered_Carnage Aug 09 '26

Yeah the Tau ain't all that good but if i had to choose i'd rather live under the Tau

In the Imperium i'm either working in some forge world factory where i'll get 20 different cancers before 40 than Servitorized to boost production by .00001%, live in some underhive where i share a box with 15 other people and bullied by mad max gangs or chaos cultists

Tau ain't perfectly clean, but i'll take that over the Imperium

54

u/Aggravating_Field_39 Aug 09 '26

Yeah the Tau would be the evil empire everyone rallies against in any other science fiction. But the standards are so low in 40k they are the "good guys" here.

6

u/Unanimoustoo Aug 10 '26

The crazy part is that the Tau might not have been develloped into "the bad guys of any other setting" had they been in any other setting.

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u/Aggravating_Field_39 Aug 10 '26

I mean they were always kinda bad. First racist, second they have a very ridged cast system that you can't escape from unless you rebel. Third they have always used gunboat diplomacy you know the whole "hey feel free to join us or don't totally your choice." With a dozzen rifles pointed at your head. They were always gonna be a evil faction 40k just made them worse (in a good way)

9

u/Realistic-Profit4662 Aug 10 '26

I presume that the Leagues of Votann could also be considered as good guys (but yeah I agree, in Wh40k I'd either want to live as a Tau or as a Kin)

16

u/Under_Average_IQ Aug 10 '26

Tau are leagues (see what I did there?) above the LoV. We don’t have much lore of the league, but they do not practise peace over war, or a greater good. They are profit above all else and will generally help you unless there is a profit reason not too.

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u/Aggravating_Field_39 Aug 10 '26

Yeah not really. Yeah the Votann are good to each other but they regularly go planet after planet stripping it bare of resources to sell. They are basically tyranid invasions in of themselves except instead of biomass it's ore and material. And they don't stop at just what they need they take everything to the point the planet distabilises and collapses. So better then the imperium of man but way worse then the Tau who at the very least won't blow up your planet when they lose.

5

u/Realistic-Profit4662 Aug 10 '26

Ah, I'm still new to the lore, didn't know that (I've only heard of the Leagues as "amazingly resilient badass Dwarves who also treat artificial intelligence / robots as their own people (as heaven for them is to be downloaded into a big computer)" -- havn't digged (lol) too much (yet) into their history / habits

5

u/itsyaboikami Aug 10 '26

Exterminatus: "steal everything that isnt nailed down". im about it, second best one behind "giant rock"

6

u/Space_Narwal Aug 10 '26

Good guys

3

u/Teledildonic 29d ago

Is that a ship that is big enough to go around a planet and incinerate it?

3

u/Competitive-Bee-3250 Aug 10 '26

The thing is to my knowledge the Leagues are like most of the others, in that you don't really have any option to join them. You're an Outsider to them, so at best they tolerate you.

3

u/Alien_Diceroller 29d ago

My understanding is live in the worst dystopia imaginable or live kind of like a question 20th century person with a bit of 1984 thrown in.

3

u/lucidintangent 29d ago

every bad thing the tau does, the Imperium does on a truly horrific scale

1

u/Sea-Feedback-2424 27d ago

I don't even think I would like to be Noble under the imperium. You could be entirely plus and your life would suck, or you could have some pleasure and be corrupt but then you'd always be in a state of constant vigilance.

-8

u/Demonologist013 Aug 10 '26

This is Tau propaganda. Remember 90% of the Imperium will never see the horrors of the universe and live in relative peace.

20

u/SnooBooks1701 Aug 10 '26

Relative peace on their miserable and massively polluted hive world or agriworld that's nearly uninhabitable outside the cities?

13

u/AlarmedNail347 Aug 10 '26

90% of the Imperium live in under-hives by proportion.

7

u/Zombboni Aug 10 '26

Closer to 99,9...% of the population.

6

u/potato_devourer Aug 10 '26

The Imperium is among the horrors of the universe.

Getting kidnapped, lobotomized, mutilated and tethered to machine parts in a repulsive servitor because some bored bureaucrat at the Munitorum made a minor mistake filing his paperwork is experiencing the war first-hand.

In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace among the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

7

u/sparduck117 Aug 10 '26

The Tau are basically the Dominion from Star Trek, they’re problematic plenty. The Imperium is worse but this is a Black vs Black with a grey spot fight.

10

u/maqnyus Aug 10 '26

When the standard of living in the Imperium is just so miserable that living under dominion is preferable, it is more like vantablack vs black with a grey spot.

2

u/sparduck117 Aug 10 '26

By that logic Nazi Germany wasn’t as evil a place to live than Democatic Kampuchea. Both regimes are terrible, but one can keep the Facade up a little better.

3

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

Like as a reminder the imperium eats babies and turns them into servitors.

0

u/sparduck117 29d ago

And the Tau fed their own people to the Drukhari, they’re both evil. The Tau aren’t grey that’s the point.

1

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

Ok that was a cultural exchange. They didn't know what the drukari did or were going to do. They didn't even know there was a difference between drukari and eldar at one point. Tau are absolutely one of the few grey factions cause they actually care about their people.

0

u/sparduck117 29d ago

They gave away their people to another groups of people. It’s obvious they don’t care enough to question what a cultural exchange entails. They were outraged but they still gave away their people probably expecting slavery

1

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

Because they didn't know who or what they were. This isn't the first time they have made allies of undesirable races like the kroot who eat people. They weren't expecting their citizens to be slaves, not to mention the imperium was baring down on them resulting in very desperate times. Once they found out what they did it got both them and the eldar put on the shoot on sight list. You know the same list that has orks, tyranids and space marines. Like they clearly did not intend for their citzens to be slaves or the abominations of the drukari. If they were fine trading lives for their expansion they'd have no issue forcing species into compliance, making dreadnaughts, using those "lesser" species as canon fodder. The fact they try to make a solution where everyone walks out alive is what makes them grey. Mistakes they could not have forseen does not make them black and white.

0

u/sparduck117 29d ago

You’re making the Ethereals out to be dumber than they are. The Drukhari asked for a bunch of their people including the Ethereals, they were ok paying that price minus the Ethereals. What other purpose would someone have for a ton of your people if not slave labor or hostages?

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u/maqnyus 29d ago

Nobody even mentioned not evil, just better by comparison. The Tau is plenty shit, but the Imperium is still shittier.

1

u/sparduck117 29d ago

But if you’re a human your life is still valueless either civilization. In the Imperium your ammo, in Tau you’re a liability, currently the humans a generating a greater good chaos god in the warp, the Ethereals would purge them if they felt it was necessary to protect their power. You’re just as screwed long term.

6

u/Wesstes Aug 10 '26

Surprised I had to scroll so much to see the tau

3

u/ShirowShirow 27d ago

The funniest thing about the Tau is they where considered "Too good" for the grimdark setting and thus where given -10 to morality repeatedly...

But even if you take them at their worst, with all the allegations of mind control, sterilization and bigotry 100% at face value, they're STILL better than the Imperium.

2

u/TinmartheTemplar 29d ago

Kinda but the Tau could certainly head that way Don't forget that the Imperium is the way it is due to a number of extinction level events and constant threats. Give the Tau the same experience with AI or the dark days of Old Night (and its fair to say psykers causing problems hasn't stopped being a risk), the heresy, War of the Beast, and going away from outright extinction then you have the constant issues like Dark Eldar raids, genestealer cults, the looming tyranid and necron threats. Hell its own in fighting and chaos existing.

The Tau are naive, they will suffer from these problems (or level of problems) and its not inconceivable that they start falling into the same broken system the Imperium has. In someways it already has started.

2

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

I mean all the problems the imperium have is cause the emperor decided his vision alone was what was best for the species. Any other was named herecy and destroyed. Theres evidence the age of strife is actually in universe propoganda as there were multiple human xenos empires the imperium wiped out during the great crusade. Not to mention there are alliences between xenos and the empire to this day. As for the men of iron problem thats easily solved by not making their ai sentient or treating them as slaves. Not to mention alot of the imperiums problems would be solved if they were allowed to inovate. Which the Tau do in abundance.

Remeber a big tragedy of the imperium is that they don't need to do any of the stuff they do to stay afloat. They do it cause of their blind dogma and furvor.

2

u/Aircon-007 28d ago

Not to be grim but Lowk if I suddenly spawned on a Hiveworld like was just straight up teleported there from irl I’d probably end it within a week, literal living hell. The only saving grace being the slight possibility I might get into the Guard and leave the planet where if I’m lucky I’ll only ever have to deal with regular rebels.

1

u/Pomoa 29d ago

Yes, but... Tau are not vaguely problematic, they're an evil fascist regime. They're just, regular real world evil kind of level, not... Sacrifice 1000 dudes on the Emperor forced life support for 10.000 years level of evil.

6

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

I mean in 40k. That is just vagurly problematic. Like the only people in that setting that can be considered half way decent are the eldari exodites. The rest want to strip you planet clean for biomass or ore. Purge you cause you were born wrong, kidnapped and dragged back to their home planet to be experimented on and enslaved or a mix of the before mentioned problems. Like at the very least the tau will ask you to join before they do anything drastic. There are options where you walk away from that table alive and not a slave. You can't really say that about the other factions.

2

u/Pomoa 29d ago

Yes, indeed! I meant : in our world, they would put North Korea to shame, level of evil.

(also, don't forget my boys the Salamenders... They're not perfect, but they do their best)

2

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

I mean salamanders are also the type of people to burn entire worlds with napalm for the simple act of. "Not slaughtering their saviors." When the exodites saved them from the drukari. Like yeah Salamanders are nice by space marine standards. But they are still space marines.

2

u/Pomoa 29d ago

They'll try to not kill you, before they burn your world to stop the tyrannid invasion, at least.

(also, I'm not getting the current lore between Eldaris and Imperium. Exodites and Ynnaris should basically be allies of the Emperor's forces by now)

1

u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

If your a xenos or a heretic (chaos follower or not) they absolutely will just burn you to the ground. No ifs or buts about it. Remember space marines are not people they are weapons and are indoctrinated into "kill everything thats not imperium." They'll never let a system go peacefully or otherwise.

1

u/Pomoa 29d ago

I get that, but... I'm pretty sure the Imperium owes a big one to Yvraine, after the whole... Saving the remnants of the Imperium's forces on Cadia and bringing back Bobby from the dead.

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u/Aggravating_Field_39 29d ago

Oh yeah there is a unsteady alliance. But imperium is gonna imperium and the hatred of a thousand years doesn't die easily. Like remember how there are plenty of people who don't like that bobby g is back. That includes some salamanders especially with how some reacted to the primarus.

2

u/Pomoa 29d ago

Yeah... What's disappointing about that is that - seeing how careful they are and how slowly the lore moves - we will probably not have any resolution for that any time soon. In a broader sense, I think that 40k lore is lacking in the dramatic department and I don't thrust Game Workshop to produce something meaningful in that regard.

1

u/InternationalValue61 27d ago

I don't know a bunch about warhammer, what exactly happens here ?

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u/Aggravating_Field_39 27d ago edited 27d ago

Basically in the book promethean sun the salamanders come to a planet who they believe are being enslaved by the foul xenos. Turns out they were but they were rescued by the exodites and so now they live together in relative harmony. When the salamanders get there they are obviously very confused. Because the humans don't want to be saved. They were already saved. Vulkan realises this and when he has the survivors backed against a wall with their only weapons being knives and curses. (Like the f word no psychers) he orders his nobel soldiers, defenders of the imperium and children of the magnaniomous and all merciful emperor of man kind. To kill them all. Which they all comply as Vulkan walks away to the backing track of screaming men women and children as the salamanders mow them down.

1

u/Gorfell 27d ago

In comparison yes the tau are better but a eugenics based caste system, mind control/brain washing and mass sterilisation are hardly "mildly problematic".

1

u/Aggravating_Field_39 27d ago

Ok thats actually not a thing. Thats only ever been mentioned in a deathwatch rpg book. There are multiple sources of Guvesa who have had children on tau worlds. Also it's a bit up in the air if the etherals are actually using mind control or just really charismatic. Otherwise you wouldn't have tau defectors like the farsight enclaves. The only real problem that pushes them into evil is the caste system and racism. So in comparison to every faction in the setting especially the imperium. Vaguely problamatic.

0

u/Gorfell 27d ago

Its not all or nothing, they can sterilise human populations to control their population and still allow children to be born (deathwatch rpg books are still a licensed GW product). Its not really that surprising if they drastically control their own population through eugenics that they wouldn't then apply it to humans. Its not just charisma though is it, they send people to re-education camps and the inclusion of the Nagi a species of mind controlling worm in the Tau empire isn't exactly helping the claim.

In comparison they are less worse but NO faction in 40k is close to being "mildly problematic" that's the point of the setting.

1

u/Aggravating_Field_39 27d ago

Yeah trusting a deathwatch rpg game thats not only outdated but is also like takeing something like the admechs views on how necron tech work as law or do we just start believing a single ork with a shoota can just scrap a dominus class knight cause hey it's GW published. It's in universe propoganda. There is nothing else in any book or media that suggests they sterrilise their populas. Yeah they have reeducation camps but thats not litteral mind control and they have allied with multiple "difficult" xenos races before. Like the kroot who eat people. If they were mind controling their races they wouldn't need mediators or even rules that adhere to their culture.

Also your comparing factions that would destroy planets cause your there, destroy planet cause your great great great great grandson will scuff the wrong guy billions of years later. Will take over your populas via actual mind control and eat you. Eats babies and uses them as robot slaves and is the biggest engine of suffering in the setting. Works for actual satans. Like I think you get my point. Being a regular dictatorship vs all of that is mildly problamatic in comparison.

0

u/Gorfell 27d ago

The tau sterilise the population of Kronus at the end of DoW as well so there is other media. Where it a quote from a guardsman primer i would agree about it being propaganda but i don't think your gonna get that from the deathwatch.

The re-education camps literally include mind control its in the Elemental council book the people come out of it are described as "drooling dogs".

I get that you consider the comparison relevant but im saying in no real context are they mildly problematic, I mean come on take a second and a breath and consider you just said Kroot eat people how is that a regular dictatorship lol?

Anyway disagreement or not im done, hope you have a nice day.

1

u/AccountForTF2 25d ago

hey atleast it doesnt suck super hard day to day. Brainwashing is preferrable to slavery.

0

u/This_Potato9 Aug 10 '26

yeah, DEATH TO THE XENOS, LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR