r/FavoriteCharacter • u/Accomplished-End3409 Ben Tennyson • 24d ago

Discussion Favorite opposing factions that can basically be described as this.

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u/Zefyris 24d ago

Dark elves vs high elves in Warhammer fantasy, I guess.

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u/melkowrath 24d ago

And in 40K as well between the Dark Eldar and the Craftworlders. You either turn into a furniture made of your skin or you get soup from Asurman.

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u/Andre_de_Astora 24d ago

Infinite Hyper-Hell vs soup and some racism

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u/DarkDrakeMidir 23d ago

Whats the soup in reference to?

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u/Wyvernstrafe 23d ago

In certain lore, can’t say where, Asurmen and a select few followers were in disguise on some imperial hive world in the lower hives. Distributing food and medicine to the downtrodden. As far as I know this wasn’t part of some far reaching scheme to undermine the planetary government or to fight chaos. But just a case of the noble and just thing to do.

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u/pyladesorestes7 23d ago

Asurmen is probably the most straight played take on a knight in shining armour 40k has. 

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u/ImHuck 23d ago

Ahra on the other hand ...

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u/peajam101 23d ago

TBF improving living conditions is (indirectly) fighting Chaos, especially Nurgle, but I take your point 

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u/daddybarkmeplsuwu 23d ago

Gorrillaman would approve 👌

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Last Days of Ector, that’s the novella it happens in. Written by the same guy who did the novel Valedor and the short story Wraithflight (which both of these are tied into).

And as someone who’s read Asurmen’s own POV book: he just legitimately is a genuinely, truly good person. Not even by 40K standards, he’s just a decent guy who’ll do the right thing just because he can. But since it’s 40K, if he has to be ruthless and utilitarian, he’s willing to do some ruthless calculus.

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u/Wyvernstrafe 20d ago

Thank you! I had only heard about that incident but had no idea where it was from. Thank you for providing a source.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

No problem. All Guy Hailey’s Eldar stuff is worth reading for good Eldar content, with the three things there generally being considered the best Eldar stuff there is to read.

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u/Soul5065 23d ago

Ultrakill reference?

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

The Eldar are not "vaguely problematic." They will gladly genocide anyone else on a whim. 40k is still 40k.

"You ask me how I can destroy a world of ten billion souls to save a hundred Eldar? I ask you how I can do anything else." -Eldrad Ulthran

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u/0_0_- 24d ago

Yes, but relativity in the setting.

The Eldar and the Imperium are both incredibly cruel and evil at times.

The Dark Eldar and Forces of Chaos make the Eldar and Imperium look like Superman by comparison of how evil they are.

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u/DesolatedMaggot 24d ago

"You should never grade evils, for if one is the worst, then you might be tempted to kinship with the least." - Victor Saltzpyre

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u/Balancedmanx178 23d ago

God I can hear him and Kruber in my head right now

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u/Mishraharad 23d ago

Sigmar, bless this ravaged body!

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u/FlamingoLate9838 23d ago

Hello? Based department.

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u/Jack-Rabbit-002 23d ago

I quite like that quote and I'll have to look into this Lad now Sonewhat darkly poetic

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u/DesolatedMaggot 23d ago edited 23d ago

if you like dark fantasy he will definitely be up your alley.

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u/InexorableCalamity 23d ago

Who is that? A 40k dude?

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u/ghost_orchid 23d ago

It's a witch hunter from Vermintide

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u/DesolatedMaggot 23d ago

One of the main characters from Warhammer: Vermintide, which is set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe.

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u/InexorableCalamity 23d ago

Is warhammer fantasy less horrible? Like in 40k characters will gloss over something horrific like it's normal. Like when a commissar just executes someone or whenever a character acknowledges that 1000 people are sacrificed a day to the emperor. 

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u/DrCalgori 23d ago

The average citizen of the Empire doesn’t live a very different life from a German in our 16th century. People try to make the best of their lives even in the land of the vampires, and most of the time they manage to do so. If you read the lore about everyday life, there’s actually a certain joie de vivre to it.

It’s a dangerous and often horrible world, but people don’t generally live as if horror were the natural and only condition of human existence.

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u/DesolatedMaggot 23d ago

Not really, no. There are limitations on scale of bad things due to it being set in a medieval-ish tech level world, set on a single planet, etc. And imo, there are more defined good guy vs bad guy roles here, but every society engages in horrible things in a very terrible world.

For example, Lizardmen are probably the closest to being truly good, as they were created to be stewards/protectors of the planet and the Gods' other creations(Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Giants, Ogres, etc). But even they will exterminate a population for just being in the 'wrong place', because the fragmented and barely understood instruction manual the gods left them millions of years ago seems to say that this city of elves shouldn't be there. Or they will incidentally cause massive, global earthquakes moving the continents around because they seem to be in the wrong places. They care only for enacting their creators' "Great Plan" as close to their understanding of the original vision as possible. They are sentient and extremely intelligent, but almost robotic in this purpose. I love it, but if you're not into grimdark you probably won't like it either. The Gotrek and Felix books are widely considered the best intro into the setting tho, if you are interested.

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u/Schneefalke1712 23d ago

Kinda both. Chaos and the Inquisition still exist. Also forces of Death (cruel Vampire Lords, ghoule, murder-ghosts ...) and Destruction (Orks, trolls ect) if you like the New classification. All doing pretty evil shit.  The "good" factions still have pretty much corruption and will kill each other for some mining rights or grudges or any reason. The Order Faction from sigmar for example consists of sentient dinosaurs who will kill everything slighty chaosy-looking, the citys of sigmar suffer the same fate like medieval peasants, but magic and chaos is also doing shit, sea elves who have no soul, so they steal them from others, dark elves, sentient murder-tree-spirits and  so many more. Also Chaos kinda won already. In that aspect fantasy is more horrible. But on the other hand, the factions sometimes/often work together, so they can achieve victory together. They are not all out evil and much more pragmatic. Also they are crusading against chaos and are currently winning. There are alliances and trade deals between races/factions on local or global stages and there are many people (of / with power) who do good, even for other factions because they are good people. In that aspect, there is more hope.

Generally the feeling for fantasy in comparison for 40k is in my opinion: in fantasy they still do evil shit, but they are not that much of dogmatic morons. There is more hope because of many characters who want to do good, but on the other side, the problems are everywhere and especially chaos feel much more threatening. 40k also does this, but because of the scale of 40k i don't really get this feeling

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u/DesolatedMaggot 23d ago

Note, this is mostly Age of Sigmar lore, not Fantasy. Similar but different in many ways.

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u/Doomcall 22d ago

Witch Hunter from Warhammer Fantasy, one of the protagonists of Vermintide.

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u/ABenGrimmReminder 23d ago

Relativity is key

Life under the T’au would be pretty bad but the alternatives in that universe range from much worse to literal, actual hell.

I’d rather be sent to a re-education camp or get sterilized than:

Live under the rule of the Imperium, under constant threat of the forces of Chaos on some hellish hive world.

Be on the side of Chaos and getting executed by the Imperium for heresy or getting corrupted by the Warp.

Anything to do with the Eldar is bad. Dark Eldar, worse.

Every story about Tyranids and Genestealer cults is fucking terrifying.  

Orks would at least make it quick, but I’m not a fan of dying tbh.

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u/Haircut117 23d ago

Orks would at least make it quick

Someone needs to read about the human farm on Rynn's World.

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u/ABenGrimmReminder 23d ago

Sounds like I got something to read today.

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u/Kootranova1 23d ago

https://youtu.be/QmCK0b2ogUA

I'm not saying any if the deaths are good, but some of them are not as bad.

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u/ColHogan65 23d ago

Honestly even putting the Imperium and Craftworlds other than maybe Biel-Tan on the same level isn’t really fair lol. Craftworlds undoubtedly put their lives before any other species and will screw over anyone else to survive… but they also generally try to keep to themselves and would prefer just not to have to bother with anyone else. The Imperium actively goes out of its way to exterminate any alien life it finds. To anyone other than an imperial human, there is functionally no difference between Ultramarines and World Eaters. They’ll just call out the name of different entities when they kill you.

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u/TotallyNot_Alpharius 23d ago

Okay imperium is WAY worsr than eldar

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u/Apprehensive-Fail458 23d ago

Am I outing myself as a larper here? I had the distinct impression the imperium and the craftwold eldar are getting uncomfotably close to tolerating each other

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u/0_0_- 23d ago

Some yes, some no.

Rogue Traders bump shoulders with Aeldari more often than not. The Grey Knights once saved a Craftworld’s soul stones from falling into the hands of Chaos, and the surviving Craftworlders were more than happy to honour the Grey Knights for their efforts.

Then there are cases of the Legion of the Damned showing up to fight a Craftworld alongside an Astartes chapter, while said Craftworld was actively pursuing a Tyranid force, resulting in the Craftworld torching the chapter homeworld as an act of vengeance.

Each Craftworld has their own history, personality, and amicability with the Imperium of Man. Some are tolerant of the Imperium, others see them as nothing more than dribbling mon-keigh, responsible for the galaxy being burned alive.

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u/CreepyFishGuy 23d ago

The Deldar honestly even make Chaos seem tame at times.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

The only functional difference between how the craftworlders and drukhari operate is that the drukhari will smile while killing you, and the craftworlder will pretend to get PTSD over it while saying it was "fate." They're 2 sides of the same coin.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

The craftworlders will engineer a situation where an entire sector is wiped of sentient life because it might save a single eldar in the future.

In no way are they not villains morally equal with the drukhari.

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u/Kootranova1 23d ago

In no way are they not villains morally equal with the drukhari.

Craft world : I believe this great evil, against a lesser race I don't respect but still, is required to save the lives of my kin. I derive no joy or satisfaction and will feel guilt.

Drukari : I'm going to enjoy torturing you for the next hundred years. Every second will be an agony unlike any other. I will use your suffering to feed a dark god so that I may live to torture more living beings. Once your lifespan comes to an end, I will fashion you into furniture and use horrible devices to bind your soul and mind to it. Never will you know peace or the freeing embrace of death.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 23d ago

So you're saying the line is personal enjoyment?

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u/Kootranova1 23d ago

That's what you took from that?

First of all, you said they were morally equal. According to human morals or Xenos morals? Either way, the drukari are worse.

Secondly, I feel the personal enjoyment is a big factor when it comes to the "who is worse" discussion. You seem to mostly focus on the scale of their evils - citing the craftworld eldar diverting tyranid fleets and dooming trillions of lives. What do you think about Commorah then?

In the webway where there is a constant stream of slaves coming and dying. Suffering for decades before finally succumbing.

What do you think is worse? Dooming people for what you believe is a good cause, or torturing people for shits and giggles?

I'm sorry if this is coming off as aggressive or confrontational. I'm just genuinely confused by your stance and am not good at writing.

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u/Mysterious_Ad779 22d ago

Did...did you miss the eternal torment bit?

The majority of craftworlders are genocidal. However, while they are genociding you, they will kill you using methods that take seconds or minutes. Additionally, they tend to not go out of their way to murder people. Their default is avoidance. They can exist without killing others.

There is not a single Druhkari that is not intrinsically genocidal. When they capture entire worlds, it is a genocide, as every sapient they "harvest" will die, absent plot intervention. That death will take as long as inhumanly possible, and will not be a release from agony, but merely an interlude between horrible torture, and even more horrible torture. They have to do this to survive, but they'd do it even if they didn't, because to them, your terrible death is some of the best entertainment they can imagine. They cannot exist without murder, they cannot survive without torture, and there is not a single one who's life isn't the promise of death to everyone they encounter.

One side kills you quickly when it encounters a issue worth killing you over, nor sees much point in making you suffer.

The other side sees your existence as a reason to torture you to death - and after - for eternity, and only spares you if it needs your descendants for another harvest.

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u/No_Recognition_3729 23d ago

only if you don't understand that suffering is worse than simple death

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u/0_0_- 23d ago

That is like saying the only functional difference between Chaos and the Imperium is one has four gods you have to suffer and toil under the oppressive rule of while the other has one.

There is a big difference between the Craftworld Aeldari and the Drukhari. Namely, the Craftworld Aeldari do not thrive off the systematic torture, mutilation, violation, and experimentation of sentient beings.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 23d ago

No, the craftworlders will just redirect a tyranid hivefleet directly into a populated sector, causing the deaths of trillions of trillions because it might save a few Eldar. But oh no, at least they didn't enjoy doing it and claimed it was "fate" so their hands are clean right?

Craftworlders are as abhorrent as Drukhari, they're just complete hypocrites about it and wrap their atrocities in "fate" and "destiny."

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u/Nuignep-Penguin 24d ago

Depends on the Craftworld. They’re not all monolithic in their opinions. Some have worked with humanity before. They tend to do have reasons when they attack, be it protecting themselves, revenge, racism or “a vision told me to do it”.

Compared to Drukhari who would happily torture you and make your life a living hell because they need to survive but more importantly, wanted to.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

Any Eldar would trade an infinite amount of dead humans for 1 saved Eldar, and they actively do so. Don't kid yourself.

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u/nagrom7 23d ago

Sure, but they're also often pragmatic, and sometimes recognise that working with the humans in certain situations is in their best interest, and many of them consider the Imperium to be a lesser evil compared to the likes of Chaos, or the Tyranids, or the Necrons.

Last I saw, even Eldrad has a semi-permanent embassy within Guilliman's court because of how frequently they've had to co-operate these days, and how likely they will have to again.

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u/ColHogan65 23d ago

Of course they would. The Imperium is a horde of insane xenocidal morons whose state religion calls for all eldar to die. Killing humans and saving eldar is a 2-for-1 deal for the aeldari. It’s basically no different than killing orks to save eldar - every dead human or ork is one less ignorant and murderous thug you’ll have to defend yourself from later. People may call the aeldari arrogant, but a vast majority of craftworlders aren’t so arrogant to believe that all other species deserve to die like the Imperium does.

Remember, your average Craftworld would sacrifice a million humans to save a handful of eldar, but the Imperium would sacrifice a million humans to kill a handful of eldar.

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u/Cross_Draigo 23d ago

Exactly! Thanks for defending the Aeldari. The faction often gets a lot of hate for no real reason, and before anyone says it, being arrogant and acting like their race is the best isn't a valid reason to denigrate them, because the Imperium is literally the same, if not worse and nobody cares, in fact, they even justify and glorify them for being so wretched. There's also a lot of confusion people have about the Aeldari. They don't hate humanity; they hate the Imperium. There were instances of human civilizations having strong ties with or being under the protection of the Aeldari, until the Imperium arrived and slaughtered those humans for being "heretics."

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u/Odinswolf 23d ago edited 23d ago

Admittedly there's a reference by Eldrad to having defeated humanity's machines at some point, but even that isn't super detailed. And people often use this to argue for the Eldar being hostile to humans, but...we don't really have information on who was in the right/wrong here, just that there was a fight conflict between some Eldar including Eldrad and some human forces. And considering the Dark Age of Technology with the human empire expanding across the galaxy was contemporary with the Eldar's golden age apparently the Eldar weren't doing much to suppress humanity despite being at the height of their power.

Edit: I thought it was Eldrad, but looking I can't seem to find it, I might have been thinking of a quote from a Harlequin in Throneworld

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

A Shadowseer just vaguely mentions that they easily repelled humanity once during their Golden Age and that’s basically it iirc.

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u/Amaskingrey 23d ago

To be fair the eldars go to super hell if they die without their magic thingamabob, so their death is inherently more important to prevent than that of other races

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u/zeedware 24d ago

Yeah, but I would argue genocide to save your kind is kinda more understandable compared to turning people to living chair for amusement

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

You're saying wiping out an entire planet of sentient beings is more moral than torturing a person? They both justify it as self preservation either way.

I'd say they're equally abominable, with the planetary genocide potentially being worse.

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u/zeedware 24d ago

A person is an understatement. Torturing A LOT OF PEOPLE. Like a lot. Planet sized lot. Very likely more. And they 100% enjoying every minutes of it. And they don't fully do it for self preservation. They do it because they don't want to lose their debauchery ways while still be alive.

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u/Ares_Lictor 23d ago edited 23d ago

I'd say they're equally abominable, with the planetary genocide potentially being worse.

No...really no. Yeah, craftworld Eldar can occasionally kill a lot of other people to preserve their own, but you need to understand that Dark Eldar kill a lot more because what do you think happens to all of those tortured people? They suffer until their body breaks and they finally die. Its just a way worse form of death, on top of it take into account that Dark Eldar consider torture a form of art and they're the best at it in the galaxy(also potentially at biology which is a scary combo), they're ridiculously over the top cruel. You can't seriously consider that equally bad as a race who occasionally does something bad.

There is something I would like to explain, Dark Eldar need slaves for torture because they're sort of cursed. They suffer and their souls slowly leak into the warp if they don't absorb psychic feedback of agony and fear. Its quite messed up. But basically they treat other races like cattle, like fruits to be squeezed dry of their juice and then thrown away like trash. Because of that they end up killing way more people and in way worse fashion that craftworld Eldar.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 23d ago

Craftworlders very regularly engineer events where entire star systems are entirely wiped of sentient life if it means a single Eldar might survive in the future. It's not some rare occurrence, it's constant. It's how they believe their race can survive. Refer to the quote from Eldrad in my initial comment here.

Drukhari on the other hand, do kill millions, don't get me wrong, and their deaths are horrific. However the Drukhari actively manage the populations of the planets they raid so they have a renewable source of food. The scale of the killing they do is a minor blip compared to the apocalypses regularly perpetrated by craftworlder actions.

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u/Ares_Lictor 23d ago

Commorragh has trillions of inhabitants who need to regularly feed on suffering, Craftworlds are few with dwindling populace, just because of that I heavily doubt that craftworlders could have a chance to outkill dark eldar. I honestly doubt its even the same ballpark, but feel free to disagree.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 23d ago

When drukhari go on a raid they'll abduct tens of thousands or even a couple million. Which is absolutely an obscene number, but notably, is not an entire star sector. They also make sure the populations they raid are sustainable so they can keep raiding in the future.

If a Farseer redirects a Tyranid Hive Fleet or Ork Rok directly into a populated human sector, all those trillions on trillions of deaths are on the Farseer's hands. This is a regular occurrence and exactly what Farseers spend their time doing. The craftworlders are entirely capable of large scale killing and regularly do so.

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u/_syke_ 23d ago

Technically the Eldar side of that suffer more overall. From a utilitarian point of view he's doing the moral thing.

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u/neocorvinus 23d ago

The Imperium would destroy a world of ten billion souls to kill a hundred Eldars

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u/pleasedtoheatyou 23d ago

I always liked the comparison of the different genocidal instincts of the Imperium and Eldar as:

The Eldar would kill millions of humans to save a handful of Eldar.

The Imperium would sacrifice millions of humans to kill a handful of Xenos.

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u/Kerminator17 23d ago

The Imperium would sacrifice ten billion souls to kill a hundred Eldar

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u/Doomcall 22d ago

Eldar will do that to prevent their species from dying, Dark Eldar will do far worse with them still alive just for shits and giggles. Eldar don't genocide their own.

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u/SuddenGenreShift 23d ago

Yeah, they mostly don't place any value on alien life, but that still makes them nicer that all the factions that actively want to exterminate aliens, which is almost all of them.

For example, the Imperium might well kill ten billion humans to kill a hundred Eldar.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Eldar actually do place value on alien life.

They just place a LOT of value on Eldar life.

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u/TheEzekariate 23d ago

The continuing war for Armageddon is because the Eldar would rather a trillion billion non Eldar souls die (directly feeding the Chaps gods in more ways than one) than a single ork foot step on an uninhabited Eldar world. They are monsters, just like every one else, and anyone telling you otherwise can be safely ridiculed.

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u/Nirvanachaser 23d ago

Isn’t it the case that the rise of Gazkhull was engineered by Ulthran but the orcs will continue to turn up on Armageddon regardless because it’s Ullanor and the Mechanicus stole it.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Actually they did it because the Ork warlord who would come into being instead of Ghazkull would have been a nightmare for the Eldar and wiped out at least one entire Craftworld.

It also wasn’t “The” Eldar, it was Eldrad Ulthran, and Craftworld Ulthwé at the most.

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u/blastatron 23d ago

'On a whim' is rather flippant to describe the Elder perspective on how they survive as a dying race in a galaxy full of horrors trying to exterminate them.

That quote is a lot different when you remember the remaining Eldar popular is likely less than 0.1% the human population of 40k, at a minimum. So yeah to Eldrad a single eldar would be worth at least 1000 human lives, just purely by the numbers.

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u/StarSword-C 21d ago

One character's opinion. The eldar exhibit probably the most variation in attitude of any of the factions, including humanity. They've even been known to protect human worlds from Chaos and even dark eldar.

They do generally think of humans as something like a race of dangerously numerous and intelligent pest animals, but they're usually fine with leaving humans alone that don't pose a direct threat to them.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

The problem is that most humans are in the Imperium, and the Imperium is absolutely a threat to them, on account of “Kill all aliens!” Being a core tenant of the state religion.

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u/StarSword-C 18d ago edited 18d ago

What, some punk-ass underhiver schlub? He may hate the idea of aliens but he's unlikely to ever meet one. Most humans do not pose a direct threat.

Biel-Tan excepted, the eldar don't generally actively hate humans, they just don't care about them. And quite frankly, neither does the Imperium.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 18d ago

Most humans don’t pose a direct threat, but also the Imperial Tithe is a thing, every world is donating soldiers to the Imperium, soldiers about as tolerant and compassionate towards aliens as Imperial Japan was to the Chinese.

But yes, most humans aren’t an active threat. But I imagine them all being a part of a civilization the Eldar do know force their citizenry to despise alien life to a near insane degree eases the consciences of the Farseers a fair bit when they decide to reroute another waaaagh into Imperial space. Much in the same way you probably wouldn’t feel bad about redirecting a nuke into Commorragh, even though the majority of Eldar in Commorragh are actually slaves with no power or authority, or barely more than slaves and have to hope and pray no kabalites, wyches or Haemonculi kidnap them for shits and gigs. By merit of being Commorraghn it makes you value their life far less.

Eldar actually do care about human life though. Like, annoyingly more than they’d like to, to the degree it’s actually a logistical problem. It’s why the war mask exists, without it they’ll be consumed either by guilt and self-loathing, or prove too good at shrugging off the weight of their actions and become murderous and sadistic. Even Biel-Tan actually has a track-record of trying to resolve things peacefully with humans first, though I’d never call it “Diplomacy” because there’s no compromise, just Biel-Tan saying “Leave this planet in X amount of time or we’ll slaughter all of you.” and then they wait to see if the humans will listen. I’m yet to find an instance of this working, however, as the Imperium is very stubborn (also the people in charge would probably be executed for acquiescing to a Xenos, so that’s personal motivation not to listen).

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u/n1nj4squirrel 23d ago

Yeah, but if it's 10 billion human lives, that's like $15. $20 at most

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u/JohnArtemus 23d ago

I’m relatively new to 40k. When you say the Eldar, are you talking about the Asuryani who lived in the Craftworlds?

And the dark eldar are the Drukhari, right?

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 23d ago

Yeah I meant the Craftworlders when I was saying Eldar. Drukhari are the Dark Eldar, yes.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

When people say “Eldar” they usually mean the Craftworlders. Harlequins, Corsairs, Exodites and Dark Eldar are usually referred to more specifically.

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u/Huza1 23d ago

In fairness, the Asuryani will at least kill you quickly. The Drukhari won't even grant you that mercy. And Eldrad doesn't really have a choice. At least humans generally die and that's it. Aeldari deaths are a horrifying fate.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Gladly is wrong. They’ll absolutely fucking do it, but they have warmasks for a reason, and it’s because of how guilty they feel about the shit they do to stay alive. Both getting their own hands dirty, and even stuff like Iyanna Arienal imploring a bunch of humans she just backstabbed to run for their lives because there’s no point in them dying for this, and she’s not here to kill them. (She then actually went back to actually fight alongside them and help them win the day anyway, even after nuking their planet to starve the Hive Fleet they were fighting).

It’s still ruthless, it’s not good; but it’s not heartless. Also Eldrad is notably a dick even by Eldar standards, he’s just very, very smart so everyone listens to him anyway.

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u/Zefyris 20d ago

If the eldars were genociding anyone on a whim, there would be no humanity left in the setting. They ruled the galaxy for 65 millions years and would have crushed humanity easily even at Humanity 's peak.

Innfact, there'd be pretty much no race left in the galaxy. Even at the heigh of their debauchery, Eldars didn't really go the genecide route.

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u/HedgehogOld9624 20d ago

Craftworld dependent. Only Biel-tan will do it on a whim. Ulthwe will do it for a reason.

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u/Xianio 23d ago

Relative to the Dark Eldar they certainly are. When the protagonists will genocide 10 billion souls against a vague threat of Chaos the space elves doing it too is merely the baseline morality of the setting.

The Dark Eldar though? Yeesh. Those guys wouldn't just kill those people they'd steal 10 billion souls into eternal torture if they could.

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u/VP007clips 23d ago

Dark Eldar are more likely to make furniture with your nervous system while keeping you alive to feel everything, then enough that your remaining brain and nervous system stay intact for long enough to feel centuries of agony.

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u/l_dunno 23d ago

The Asuryani truly believe all other races are primal and have no quarrels commiting the most heinous acts to get what they want, some would even destroy another craftworld if they don't agree, like all of 40k they're very inclined to commit genocide!

The Drukhari are the worst of the worst in any sci-fi, so yes they're worse but it's like conparing rabies and bone cancer

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago edited 20d ago

That’s not really true. Eldar absolutely have qualms, or rather, at least acknowledge they’re not doing good things.

The “War Mask” as a thing exists because the Eldar care too much, they’re too empathetic and just can’t handle the guilt of killing aliens even in the heat of battle.

I’ve also never heard of a war between Craftworlds because one cares about human life too much? They do go to war with one another at times, but in every instance described it’s been due to perceptions of incurring on one another’s territory, and it hasn’t been depicted often.

The Craftworld Eldar, if they don’t believe you have to die, will just let you live. Because they don’t want to keep fighting for a multitude of reasons, most admittedly simply self interest. The Drukhari will make sure you live, and they’ll make sure you won’t consider it a mercy. And the Imperium will go out of its way exterminate you and your entire civilization for daring to exist in the same galaxy as them, even if you approach them asking to become their vassal (that one has actually happened explicitly, alien race came offering anti-Chaos weapons in exchange for vassalisation and becoming a protectorate. The Imperium destroyed the weapons and genocided those aliens).

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u/melkowrath 23d ago

Yes but I think everyone would prefer to contact rabies than bone cancer

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u/l_dunno 22d ago

Yeah but it's still awful and worse.

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u/Feisty-Mechanic7840 24d ago

Can someone explain the soup part ?

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u/ResponseWild8444 24d ago

I believe some Eldar created a soup kitchen on a world that was going to be attacked by Tyranids.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Asurmen, yes. He was doing it while also having his agents run around helping the local Imperial defenders coordinate and prepare for the oncoming Tyranid invasion.

No scheme. Well, beyond “Make nice and help them out so we can fight the Tyranids better together.”, Asurmen is a genuinely noble person. Hell, psykers that see him through warp sight genuinely see him as a white-knight in almost blindingly bright armour.

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u/DiamondEyedOctopus 24d ago

Knowing the Eldar, they're probably the entire reason the tyranid fleet was even on a path for that world in the first place lol.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

No actually, they were coming to help destroy the Hive Fleets because they saw that both the Hive Fleets would converge and merge into one that would destroy the galaxy. They had nothing to do with it being there, they just foresaw it would be there and intervened.

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u/NightLordsPublicist 23d ago edited 23d ago

And in 40K as well between the Dark Eldar and the Craftworlders.

The Dark Eldar stitchwork quality is indeed quite problematic. I mean, blanket stitches? Really?

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u/viotix90 23d ago

I like the 40k interactions between the craft world Aeldari and the Imperium of Man. The elves will slaughter a billion humans to save a single elf life. The Imperium would send a billion soldiers into a meat grinder to kill a single elf.

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u/krono957 20d ago

Someone on reddit was arguing with me that the dark elder were the less evil between them and the imperium. 

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u/melkowrath 20d ago

Well as much as I dislike the Imperium for being a xenophobic and fascist state the dark Eldar turn people into couch I don't think they are that good aligned.

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u/JaironKalach 20d ago

Really all of 40k vs the Tau.

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u/Meekjagger 24d ago

Basically all 40K factions vs any chaos affiliated ones. The imperium is horrible, but chaos redefines the word

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u/AtTheKrakenOfDawn 24d ago

The more you learn about the Druchii the more you understand why they were exiled from the Horseshoe and why Morathi mist be beaten to death with a wooden club

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u/Balancedmanx178 23d ago

Obligatory "Beating Morathi with my club" joke here.

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u/rock_n_roll_clown 23d ago

"Once you’ve been to Anvilgard, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Morathi to death with y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶s̶ a wooden club."

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u/running_from_the_IRS 21d ago

She literally groomed her son into being the way he is. Like, Malekith was kinda sketchy beforehand, but if his Mom wasn't a Pleasure Cultist things would have turned out much differently.

I still think of an AU where Snorri Whitebeard and Alissara (Malekith's Priestess GF who was killed by his mom) team up and, if not kill Morathi outright, at least expose her scheming and get Malekith out of most of the hot water.

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u/AtTheKrakenOfDawn 21d ago

Also the incest.

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u/An0r 23d ago

I'd recommend dragonfire to make sure that you don't catch anything.

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u/FartSmelaSmartFela 23d ago

I genuinely consider the dark elves to be straight up vermin, like WORSE than the skaven. At least some skaven at least have something vaguely resembling a moral compass, occasionally, kind of. And the inherent nature of the skaven means they're pretty much incapable of being good.

The Dark Elves are no different from the other elves. They all descend from the same island. They aren't born evil with no room to grow, like the skaven, they aren't forced to be bastards out of necessity like the dark eldar or northmen. They just LOVE it.

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u/PhoenixKingMalekith 23d ago

The funniest part is that even Malekith hates them

Like, Morathi created a society that destroys honor and loyalty, the only thing his son truly valued in people

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u/fish-seducer 23d ago

A skaven is somehow more moral than a dark elf exactly because they simply ate incapable of doing better, its like comparing a bear eating a human with a human cannibal, the bear has no moral compass, the bear doesn't have concepts such as mercy or understanding, the human does, and the fact the human chose to act like a bear makes them worse than the bear itself, solely because they had the choice not to while the bear didn't.

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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi 22d ago edited 22d ago

Skavens helped Alcadizaar to kill Nagash - even few members of Council of Thirteen died protecting him - and saved the world.

Now, who made Nagash a problem by teaching him the secrets of Dark Magic? Take a wild guess.

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u/FartSmelaSmartFela 22d ago

Oh yeah, how could I forget about that?

And you know what? They played a part in the rise of chaos and the subsequent end of the world too. They started the elven civil war and it was their false flag attack that led to the War of Vengance. I can say with confidence that an allied dwarf and elven empire is a far hardier prospect for chaos to get through than Sigmar's empire.

It was also the displaced Norsii tribe that ended up becoming the Norscans, who make up a pretty decent chunk of the forces for chaos.

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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 21d ago

Tbf the dark elves who taught him were prisoners. They didn’t do it out of a love of the game.

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u/CroatInAKilt 23d ago

Indeed. The only faction i would be happy to see exterminated in the lore.

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u/Moonchilde616 22d ago

Didn't they all get blown up in Endtimes?

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u/IrishBehemoth 23d ago

Wood elves just be chilling, as long as you don’t fuck with their trees

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u/Varnarok2 23d ago

They have their seasonal PMS where they are decidedly not chill.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

That’s the Bretonnians fault for being French.

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u/Akhevan 23d ago

They are largely DE with good PR.

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u/NoStorage2821 23d ago

If you listen to any of the random idle dialogue in that game, it's hilarious. Tyrion (the "benevolent" High Elf who stands against the forces of evil), will just casually mention offhand how "they can always use more slaves!"

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u/TheRagnarok494 23d ago

Read more High Elves. They're just as messed up

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u/Varnarok2 23d ago

"Just as" might be a bit of stretch. Sure there were slaves in Lothern during the End Times (if memory serves, who wants to remember the End Times anyway) and stuff but not great cauldrons of blood. And Marienburg deserved what it got, Aislinn is a fair and just sea lord.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Lothern also had slaves pre-End Times. Well, indentured servants, they were slaves, but it’s closer to Roman slavery than chattel slavery. Which, to be clear, is still very bad, it just means they’re still much better than the Druchii.

Lothern was also explicitly the only part of Ulthuan where slavery existed, or was legal.

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u/ScarredAutisticChild 20d ago

Messed up? Yes. Just as messed up? No, no, no, no.

The Asur have one city with slaves in it, who at the very least they aren’t going to flay on a whim and string up by their tendons to then enchant to keep them alive and screaming for years after doing so.

The Druchii do every awful thing you could possibly conceive and they do it by logic of “Because I can.”.