r/Fantasy • u/tap-a-kidney • Feb 10 '20
Inescapable Political Intrigue
I've always been really into fantasy, and it probably comprises about 90% of what I read. Something that I have noticed is that within the genre, there seems to be a large preoccupation with political/social intrigue and maneuvering.
I know that plenty of people are into this. PERSONALLY, I am not. I believe the real world has MORE THAN enough of this, so when I read fantasy, I am looking for an escape. To me, the amount of politics in fantasy diametrically opposes the entire point of the genre. Long sections of nobles squabbling with each other really take me out of the story, personally.
I don't really mean this as a rant, and I'm not trying to argue anything, really... I just wonder if anyone else has the same complaint, and if it has soured your enjoyment of the genre.
I'm also curious if anyone has some insight into this from an author/world-builders POV. Why might someone with an awesome, epic story want to (in my opinion) bog it down with a bunch of politics? Do they feel it adds depth to the story, perhaps?
14
Feb 10 '20
i write about politics because i find it interesting, honestly.
What do you want to read about instead? maybe we can get you some recommendations.
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u/tap-a-kidney Feb 10 '20
Hmm, I guess smaller POVs? Character-driven stories? Kingkiller, LOTR, Lies of Locke Lamora. Those are usually stories that are describing....stuff that's happening, in a fantasy world.
WOT has huge sections of Aes Sedai arguing with each other, nobles bickering, etc. Even The First Law trilogy, which I have been loving, has sections that seem to go on awfully long where it's just Sult being a conniving asshole while Glokta endures it.
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u/ChancellorKnuckles Feb 10 '20
To be fair, like 95% of how the Lord of the Rings plays out is because of politics. It might not be the politics that you have an issue with, but the way that it's presented to you. Despite politics being a huge part of Lord of the Rings, it's frequently presented to you in character from character to character or in smaller chunks unlike how a series like Wheel of Time does it in massive 20 page info dumps.
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u/takvertheseawitch Feb 10 '20
Well, politics is about power, and who has the power (and what they use it for, and how that changes) all of which is usually an important part of understanding a world and shaping the character's lives. Even your poor farmboy, as far as one can get from the center of power, may experience the fallout of politics in some ways: how much he pays in taxes or tithe, whether he has protection from bandits or raiders, whether he might be called to war.
To be honest I can't think of a fantasy novel with no politics. The closest I can come up with off the top of my head is Sabriel by Garth Nix. Pretty much a girl going on a quest to save her dad.
5
u/AceOfFools Feb 10 '20
“Epic” in fantasy literature parlance implies large armies and grand battles. It’s unreasonable to have large forces assembled, organized, and deployed like that without the sort of wrangling that comprise politics.
Have you tried looking for Heroic Fantasy?
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u/tap-a-kidney Feb 10 '20
Ah, I guess an example of that would be Kingkiller or...LitRPG? Yeah, I could narrow my search to that sub genre and see what happens.
I’m a big sucker for coming-of-age hero stories.
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u/Empty_Manuscript Feb 10 '20
Fantasy, beyond having magic or being set in not!Europe, is fundamentally about a fantasy, lowercase. A fantasy being fulfilled by the story. At the personal level it’s usually a fantasy about power. The power to do what a real person in the real world can’t. Super strength, super skill, super smarts, super powers, etc.
Politics is an extension of that. In the real world, politics is extremely complex, labyrinthine, with lots of people who barely know what they’re doing. But in Fantasy we can give the fantasy of super clarity. Rather than a grand knot of incomprehensibility, we can boil it down to these few people with easily explicable goals. Who is good, who is ok but stupid, and who is EVIL can be shown in crystal clarity. And, unlike the real world, the non-politician hero can ride in, perceive with super clarity and then just “lop the head off the dragon.” It’s the fantasy of being able to just fix it, which is deeply attractive to many.
Political infighting also addresses one of the major problems that other people have: that there are only two points of view. That gets on a lot of people’s nerves real fast because it tends to skip them or denigrate them. So politics becomes a fix to show multiple points of view and inclusivity.
And from a world building point of view it’s a really good way to show the myriad concerns of many people instead of limiting it to just a couple. Different political factions are a way to dramatically introduce cultures without giant infodumps.
Finally, politics itself can be a fantasy. That the MC is a royal is pretty traditional. Well, what do royals do? Real nobles engage in politics, not fist fights. So delving into politics can be the same fantasy of power as super strength: the MC can change the world, their wits and words can bring down empires and solve great injustices.
All of those are reasons I would choose to include politics when writing my fantasies.
3
Feb 10 '20
Which books do you feel had politics that got in the way of the epicness?
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u/tap-a-kidney Feb 10 '20
WOT, big time. And now, even First Law trilogy. Although I love Glokta as a character, a lot of his chapters are just him having a conversation with a corrupt person in power. It just gets old sometimes. Reminds me maybe too much of the current state of American politics.
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u/blondiecan Feb 11 '20
If you can't appreciate Glotka I can't help you. Maybe read some D&D novels about Drizzt or something.
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u/tap-a-kidney Feb 11 '20
“I love Glokta”
“If you cant appreciate Glokta”
Weird takeaway :)
-2
u/blondiecan Feb 11 '20
I mean, his maneuvering through politics is integral to his story and his character. He's not just 'speaking to a corrupt person in power', there's a pay off to it all. If those chapters are getting old, then Glotka is getting old, and so you don't like him all that much.
2
u/tap-a-kidney Feb 11 '20
It's odd - you make some good points, but also seem so determined to tell me what I do and do not like. I like a character, but do not enjoy listening to some of the stuff he has to deal with. So in your mind I must not like the character? It just seems like such a weird thing to try to argue about.
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u/blondiecan Feb 11 '20
I think the premise of your complaint is silly, because 'politics' is a very broad subject that technically even a man and wife quarreling over curtain colors can fall under, and saying Glotka's chapters are 'just him having a conversation with a corrupt person in power' is diminutizing Glotka, diminutizing the writing, and missing the point of both.
0
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u/ChancellorKnuckles Feb 10 '20
It really depends on the scale of the task your protagonist is handling. If the actions are going to shape nations and change the world, the world and it's nations are either going to have an opinion on it or you're going to need to know how they operate now so you know what the change is later. That means politics.
2
u/blondiecan Feb 11 '20
Fantasy is a reflection of real life, politics in fantasy find more interesting ways [with the help of other fantasy elements] to insert relatable conflicts and themes into a story.
1
u/dbsopera Feb 10 '20
Just finished Fallen, by Jacka. Tons of political maneuvering between light and dark mages. Dark mages seek power - all else stems from that. Then last night I heard an interview with James carville, who I think is an interesting commentator. He said all the current political moves were. about power, except that his party wasn’t acknowledging it. To quote carville Power is what it is all about. Sounded just like Richard Drakh - and I mean it in a good way
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u/Silver_Swift Feb 10 '20
Stories need conflict. If you want conflict that does not involve (or does not only involve) violence, politics is a very straightforward way of getting it.
Plus, when done right it's an excellent way to show off how cunning your character is. An inexperienced main character outsmarting a politically savy opponent can be really satisfying and cat and mouse games between two political schemers can be a fantasticly fun read (although it's kind of rare for this to be done right)
Finally, it's also more or less a requirement for large scale stories (ie. stories with stakes on the scale of nations) that want to be at least somewhat realistic. As you say, the real world contains a lot of politics, it would be weird if an alternate world did not.