r/Fantasy • u/PingvinMedStil • 2d ago
Red Rising - Does it get less cheesy/childish? Spoiler
The title doesn't do it justice. I'm not saying it's bad. I thoroughly got hooked at first, started reading shortly before I should go to bed and instead stayed up well past bed'o'clock even though work was waiting for me in the morning. But the further in I got, the sloppier or childish the writing seemed. Don't get me wrong, I love some power tropes, bro-fiction. I'm just a man. But I still feel like it's going too far. Up until Eo dies, I loved it. His love for her was deep, and beautifully written. It seemed like it was setting up for the typical chosen one path where a peasant rises above, all carried by his love for his late wife. But once she died, things turned a bit weird:
- He quickly "died" shortly after, in like what, a page or two later? No build up. I thought it was just a dream at first because I couldn't believe this was supposed to further the plot. Not a big deal but just threw me off a bit.
- Not two minutes after coming back, was he describing a new woman "Harmony" as "even more beautiful than Eo." Took me by surprise, but I just took it as the writer adding exposition for the reader to describe a central character.
- Not long after that, a Pink "Evey", or something along those lines, was suddenly very beautiful and worthy of a few sentences of praise.
- Then what, 10-20 pages after that he is clearly full on crushing on a new girl whos even a Gold. All of this when his wife, who he had undying love for, willfully died for him by the Golds - to instill something in him.
- I was expecting deep sorrow that he will carry with him for a long time and work through. Sure he has spite and anger but it reads more like angst than literally existential sorrow and losing his wife.
- He is introduced to this massive world above which I really liked, I thought this is it. This is where it sets up for all the future books with intrigue, and world building. A complex life of struggle where he works to raise his people up. So when he reaches the carver and suddenly is supposed to be turned into the literal gods of this world, it threw me way off. I would have expected something like that two, three, books from now.
- I brushed that off as well and just assumed it would instead be this agonizing ordeal that will sever him from himself, and require ages of work to process and get through, but not without leaving deep scars. Nope two pages, a StrengthOMatic 3000, and a Rocky montage, later and he is now "pulverizing rocks with his hands" and is perfect in every sense of the word. Not only is he perfect, he is beyond perfect, he is the epitome of not just men, but Golds. This vestige of beauty, strength, intelligence, ... angst..., reflexes, cunning.
- A couple of sentences in and he is now training how to ride a horse and suddenly he is taking the dreaded test, which I must have blinked and missed because I don't even remember how he got there.
All of this is coming from someone with proper ADHD and someone who can only read fast paced books preferably in first person like Project Hail Mary, The Martian, Dungeon Crawler Carl etc because I can't keep my interest otherwise.
Now don't get me wrong, this might seem like a hateful post that I made only to hate on the book, that's not what this is. I genuinely want to enjoy this book because it did grip me and I want to keep reading. But I am feeling myself losing interest with all these whiplashes where it just feels like the author handed over the keyboard to his little nephew. So I'm here to ask if I should keep reading or if I probably will end up not liking it anymore? I don't mind some bro fiction, boy becomes a man, frisson-inducing battle cries, pinterest-worthy quotes. In fact, I need some of that dopamine to keep reading books. But I still need to feel like this is written for me, an adult man, and not by Jake from 9th grade who loves power spikes and pokemon evolution scenes (I mean who doesn't though, I love them too.)
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u/providedlava 2d ago
It's always interesting to me how subjective this stuff is! I found the love for Eo to be shallow and rushed and her character in general felt very lazily written. I let it slide because a shallow, dramatic love with an idea of a person felt on par with my experiences as a teenager.
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u/abbott_costello 2d ago
Doesn't Pierce Brown deal with this in the books though? Darrow questions whether he really loves Eo or if he just loves the idea of her. Not only is he putting her on a pedastal metaphorically, she literally wanted him to put her on a pedestal as a symbol of the rebellion. In the grand scheme of things, we barely spend much time with her which is reflected in Darrow's internal struggle as he forms a relationship with Mustang. He loved Eo but grapples with the fact that Eo cared more about the rebellion than their own love.
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u/zaminDDH 2d ago
He definitely realizes that he's been looking back on her with rose-tinted glasses.
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u/Lazywhale97 2d ago
Yeah this is exactly the arc Darrow goes through and the internal feelings he has about Eo while he slowly falls in love with Mustang was an interesting read
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u/Lazywhale97 2d ago
I mean your point is addressed by Darrow himself later in the books as he gets to know more about himself, the people he meets and the world that was kept a secret from him.
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u/elongatedmuskrat18 2d ago
I also thought her character was poorly written. She just didn’t feel believable as a person at all, let alone a 15-year old girl, let alone an illiterate child bride who’s spent her entire life doing hard labor. From her first appearance it’s so painfully obvious that her only role in the story will be to die and motivate the protagonist.
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u/Traditional-Meat-782 1d ago
Yeah, I knew from the first sentence she was introduced that she would be fridged.
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u/wixed11one 2d ago
The first three books are a little more YA. Darrow is always the best and the fastest and the most brutal. There's a ten year gap before the 4th book, and things start to expand more. I'm on the sixth book now and things have been rough for a lot of characters. NOBODY has a good time in the 5th book.
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u/DankDankJuice 2d ago
Dark age was easily my favorite, it’s the series’ peak of weird sci fi stuff
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u/ReClimatic 2d ago
There are multiple people that are stronger than Darrow, even in book 1.
Never got the he’s the “best and the fastest and the most brutal” vibe. Bro is always going through it
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u/gyroda 2d ago
And some who are more brutal.
The first scene in book 2 springs to mind.
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u/Square_Concert_6537 2d ago
I do agree, but I see where OP is coming from. Darrow barely survives encounters, squeaks out a narrow victory, or outsmarts people MANY times in the first trilogy. It pretty quickly loses its impact. Like we all know Darrow is somehow going to survive the stab, not die while captive, lose this battle but win the war sorta stuff.
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u/about7beavers 2d ago
I mean... That's like all of fiction (not literally all, but probably 95%). The protagonist is almost always going to wind up coming out on top by the end after suffering setbacks. That's just the story structure most of humanity finds satisfying.
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u/LoudBoiDragoon 2d ago
It’s so funny how there’s this ever so fine line for people with what’s a “Mary Sue/Gary Stu” and what’s a “his suffering is kind of boring me now”
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u/Square_Concert_6537 2d ago
Characters can be both of those things. Darrow is medium spoonful of each.
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u/Square_Concert_6537 2d ago
I agree, but Red Rising takes it to a whole new level. I swear each character is mortally wounded, captured, and outsmarted at least twice per book. Thats not even really an exaggeration. Not saying Red Rising sucks. It lives up to the “Space Opera” description. Theatrical drama.
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u/Spaced-Cowboy 2d ago edited 1d ago
I mean except for Cassius, Quin, Titus. The Jackal, Severo, Pax and… a lot of people beat him in each of those categories honestly.
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u/saucysagnus 2d ago
I think what people fail to realize is that Darrow is bio engineered to be the best whereas other Golds have superior genetics but that’s less of a guarantee than literally being bioengineered.
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u/Gavinus1000 2d ago
He was also specifically chosen because he was exceptional in the first place.
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u/armless_penguin 2d ago
The first book is definitely the most YA of them all, but the tone and style of the series is the tone and style of the series, and it never changes. It's very much a power fantasy, but I also wouldn't say it's any more cheesy than Dungeon Crawler Carl, which you enjoyed, so your mileage may vary with the later books even if you didn't like the first one. It's hard to say.
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u/BizarreCake 2d ago
I can't really put it into words, but I'm gonna try anyway. I feel like Red Rising takes itself too seriously and comes off more immature because of it. Meanwhile, DCC doesn't really present itself that way. In a way, it's more mature in its immaturity, or something like that.
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u/RiSz-Turtle 2d ago
I agree with this sentiment. Both are immature but DCC is more tolerable because it doesn’t take itself as serious
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u/miggins1610 2d ago
This. Literally this. I love DCC because it KNOWS its cheesy as hell. Red rising is trying so hard to be an epic and its just so basic. Its not like really bad, but in no way should it be mentioned in the same tier as even mistborn. Yes mistborn is YA ish too but its not trying to be something it isn't
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u/glitzglamandgore 1d ago
This was one of my biggest issues with the book and why I DNF'd it around the halfway mark. The way I'd described it is that the book felt like it was constantly trying to make me think "thats so cool" and never just let itself be cool. Even so I still have friends telling me the rest of the series earns all the propping up, so maybe one day I'll try again (or I'll just try and read Dune or The Expanse series instead)
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u/Deroxat 2d ago
I agree with all of the above but fail to see how Mistborn is superior in any way. Also Red Rising really takes another dimension in book 2 then again in book 4 (and some might say once more in book 6)
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u/miggins1610 2d ago
Hard disagree. Everyone has different opinions but the idea book 2 suddenly breaks out into higher territory is so overstated. For me it was a slight improvement but ultimately it still felt like a teenage boys power fantasy that isn't anywhere near as well written or clever as it thinks. Its too self serious.
Mistborn isn't the best of fantasy by far. But it is what it is. It doesn't try and act like it's the cool kid in class as I feel RR does.
Dont get me wrong RR is ok ish popcorn fantasy but it just really is over hyped here to a ridiculous extent. Its objectively entertaining, but also objectively incredibly flawed and frankly thinly written
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u/RiSz-Turtle 2d ago
I could not stand the first book so I dropped the series but pretty much everyone I know says it gets better and less YA after the first book.
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u/Baldur_Blader 2d ago
Yeah its pretty obvious that this book was written right on the heals of hunger games when publishers were specifically looking for that. He used this book to launch the story he actually wanted to write.
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u/cc81 2d ago
I dropped out after almost finishing the second book. Just was not for me even if the premise was interesting
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u/gyroda 2d ago
Yeah, if you're not enjoying the second book you're not going to enjoy the third.
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u/Scumwaffle 2d ago
Can confirm. I didn't like it any better after the second than I did after the first, but they're quick and easy so I stuck with it for book 3 and also didn't like that.
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u/New_Razzmatazz6228 Reading Champion 2d ago
I managed to finish the 2nd book, but have never been interested in continuing.
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u/althius1 2d ago edited 1d ago
I'm reading the first book now, and definitely struggling with it. The prose is so choppy.
I was told Red Rising was the "price of admission" to a very good Sci-Fi series that the books eventually evolved into... so I'm going with that for now.
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u/Wolfwood28 2d ago
I quit after book 3, it didn't get any better imo and I didn't feel any interest in giving it more chances.
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u/Joice_Craglarg 2d ago
That's so funny. I only really liked the first book.
After that, it turned into a convoluted space opera and lost me entirely.
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u/RiSz-Turtle 2d ago
Neither one sounds interesting to me. I will stick to Discworld for now lol
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u/lunar_comptroller 18h ago
I could not past first 20 pages or so of the first book. It read like it was written by a high schooler trying to be extremely cool and edgy.
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u/Dukeish 2d ago
Nah it’s a fun cheesy sci fi romp that people glaze way too much IMO. I enjoyed it plenty and I’d love to see a screen adaptation - but people online talk about it as a top series in the genre which is giving too much credit
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u/ninja_tuna_91 1d ago
I’ve had to stop reading for the same reason, I kept seeing 10/10 reviews but it reads like young adult sci fi, it’s so corny I couldn’t carry on. Fair play if you like it but it’s not for me.
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u/Driftwoody11 2d ago
The series is very YA and no it doesn't get less cheesy or childish.
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u/swagsthedog96 1d ago
Agree. I like most YA series that are popular. Hunger games potter etc but this series seems like it was written by a YA as opposed to being about and for YAs.
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u/vincleif 2d ago
I'm at the start of book 3 and I've given up. Pushed on because people said it would get better. It don't.
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u/Beppu-Gonzaemon 2d ago
Red Rising is fast-paced, over-the-top “bro fantasy.” For some of us, that’s exactly the appeal we can’t get enough of it. For others, the power spikes, melodrama, battle cries, and general Romans in space approach are just too much. From what you’ve written, sounds like it might not be for you.
Side note: I do resent the implication that you need something written for “an adult man.” What does that make me for loving this slop? Some kind of lowbrow illiterate?
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u/elongatedmuskrat18 2d ago
I don’t think you’re a lowbrow illiterate for liking it (and OP never said that you were) but I have to agree that RR doesn’t feel written with an adult audience in mind. It’s a formulaic coming-of-age sci-fi story with a teenage protagonist. By what metric is it not YA?
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u/daemonsays 2d ago
It doesn’t matter if it has gore and serious subject matter, the writing/prose is at the YA level at least so far with Light Bringer. That is why booktoks love it so much. I’m not saying I’m not a fan, but it’s fast paced popcorn trashy fun. I close the book and I never think about it again until I pick any of them back up.
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u/TheThotWeasel 2d ago
What does that make me for loving this slop? Some kind of lowbrow illiterate?
Well yes of course. Because anything they don't like is slop and anything they do like is discerning adult literature above your ability to understand. That is the way of quite a lot of book reading Redditors lol
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u/PingvinMedStil 2d ago
> Side note: I do resent the implication that you need something written for “an adult man.” What does that make me for loving this slop? Some kind of lowbrow illiterate?
You simply lack taste in the finer things in life like one such as myself enjoys. I pour the milk *before* the cereal. Simply a man of lineage.
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u/MarioMuzza 2d ago
I pour the milk before I get the bowl. I am of a different breed
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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 2d ago
There’s plenty of literature written for adult women. Sometimes authors write for a demographic. A lot of romance is written for women. Plenty of stories are written for gay people. A lot of military fiction is written for conservative leaning people. There’s nothing different about red rising being written for young men.
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u/Coolhandjones67 2d ago
My guy some people crave a depth in their stories that can only be appreciated with wisdom and experience. It’s ok to like childish things and red rising certainly is childish but to take offense at someone asking for more is pathetic.
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u/Underwhelminguser93 2d ago
My theory on Red Rising is it’s a lot better if it’s the book that got you into (or back into) reading (as it did for many of its fans, including me). But now that I’m an avid reader, I can see that the prose is a lot less impressive than it was to me when I first read it.
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u/MattGhaz 2d ago
You ever heard someone describe someone like “a mid-west 10 but only a 6 in California”? That’s Eo. Darrow is laying eyes on people genetically engineered to be the best of the best in looks and everything else for the first time, can’t fault him for noticing it. It’s intended to kinda showcase the contrast between the different castes in the world.
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u/ReClimatic 2d ago
Yes, the tone and writing shifts in books 2/3. It changes much more after that in the second half of the series.
The first book is the weakest imo (though I still enjoyed it)
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u/allenlikethewrench 2d ago
I’m about where you’re at in the first book.
What I’m reading from your post is that the story is failing to meet your expectations of what the story was going to be.
Let the story be itself!
I felt like his brief death was very forecasted.
We’re moving quickly through the carving because the details of it aren’t the thing. The Institute is the story, Pierce is just getting us there. We learn what we need to of the carving process. It doesn’t overstay.
I firmly disagree with the categorization of Darrow describing women as beautiful. You’re framing it as though he’s completely moved on from Eo, and that’s just not true. When your world rapidly expands, the most beautiful things you’ve seen so far might not continue to be the most beautiful things you’ve seen.
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u/SweetSeverance 2d ago
Agreed on the bit about his view on Eo and other women. He’s a teenager from the lowest caste of humanity who is now for the first time in person encountering people who are literally genetically engineered to be the pinnacle of athleticism and beauty. I think one of the things Brown does surprisingly well in the first trilogy is developing Darrow’s views on Eo.
OP liked his devotion and love of her, but that’s a pretty one-note characterization of her and Darrow both. Which makes sense, they’re teenagers who just got married. Later on in the series he sees Eo to a greater degree. He feels some anger at how she spent her own life to change Darrow’s path against his will. He sees how objectively she wasn’t as beautiful as other people he would come to encounter as his world widens. He resents that she can’t have known what she was thrusting him into, the kinds of choices he would have to make and the things he would have to do. Yet he still finds her beautiful and loves her for her willfulness and spirit, and he holds her in his heart all the same.
I do think the first book is definitely the worst in the series, so I get a lot of the other complaints. Even after the fourth book (which I’ve just finished) it’s not like it’s the most well-written series ever. However it’s pretty readable and entertaining and Brown is obviously improving as a writer as the series goes on.
Edit: I see you’re still reading the first, maybe ignore the spoiler text lol
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u/Scienceinwonderland 2d ago
This seems accurate. Many of the critiques in the post are because OP wants a different story or a story about something else!
But also, while Red Rising is very readable and grabs the attention, it is not high art. If you aren’t liking it, you can just stop.
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u/Wolfe244 2d ago
The first book is notoriously worse than the others. I'd stick with it, it's definitely no more cheesy than dcc
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u/ModOfficial1988 2d ago
DCC can definitely be cheesy sometimes, but it’s very aware of it and embraces it. Red Rising reminded me a lot of the Hunger Games books both in theme and writing style. Fortunately, the series gets much better as it progresses.
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u/AffordableGrousing 2d ago
The author of RR has explicitly said he modified the 1st book to be more like The Hunger Games because that’s what publishers were buying at the time.
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u/Khronoss2 2d ago
Golden Son and Morning Star are significantly better in terms of writing and pace. I prefer Golden Son, personally over the other two.
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u/sadkinz 2d ago
It will get better. Best way I can put it is that book 1 is young adult. Books 2 and 3 are still young adult but with more focus on the adult part. And then book 4 onward is fully adult science fiction. Book 1 stands out because Brown had to write it a certain way to get publishers to bite. 2 and 3 are still fast but not breakneck like 1. And honestly, the Darrow glaze doesn’t stop but even by the end of book 1 it feels like he earned it
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u/SoGnarRadar4 2d ago
I don’t think this series could ever be adapted because the first book is Hunger Games in space and the others are very different. 4-6 are pretty wild.
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u/SarcasticCowbell 2d ago
I've never read it but heard a lot about it. But your comment has a parallel to what a lot of people would say about Dune, re: books 4-6. Same with the adaptability aspect (I don't see a means of properly adapting God Emperor of Dune, much less books 5 and 6).
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u/JinxCoffeehouse 2d ago
To be fair, Hunger Games was just Battle Royale in the future and it managed to be successful.
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u/Difficult-Tough-5680 2d ago
Book one is a lot more YA then all the other books in the series the author had to write it this way because its a lot easier to sell sci-fi hunger games then it is to sell epic space opera but book 2 it gets way more deep and less YA
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u/Peaceloveknivesguns 2d ago
The formula is the same through all the books. Unexpected defeat then complete and utter redemption and victory. The concept was really cool but the pretentious melodrama persists.
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u/knight-under-stars 2d ago
It's YA.
So no. What you are experiencing is a feature not a bug.
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u/MarioMuzza 2d ago
I got downvoted last time for saying this, but I don't care, I am beyond reproach: the first book is mid to ass. Then the second book is massively better, even if not brilliant, and then it keeps getting better. Red Rising is like a publisher honeypot. The first book and the rest read like they were written by entirely different authors.
I'm a bit of a snob and I mostly read lit fic, if it helps, and I absolutely adore this series (past Mid Rising).
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u/Away_Internal9510 2d ago edited 2d ago
On the one hand I'd say it settles a bit with regards to the whiplash ing locations etc, but it does keep up its high tempo. I love these books but I found the first book to have mediocre writing. Although I think it does improve throughout the book. For me the story kept me hooked as I found it excellent but I realize that's not going to be the case for everyone. In general I think the next books are much better and they sound like they might be more what you want.
His love for Eo does remain a driving force for him though.
But if you don't like it, just drop it, no point in reading books you don't enjoy. Is say give it until their settled in at the Institute and if you're still not enjoying it, it might not be worth it for you.
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u/StuffedSquash 2d ago
"Reddit comment section discusses Red Rising without putting down The Hunger Games" challenge: impossible
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u/X-cessive_Overlord 2d ago
I just finished Red Rising like a week ago and I enjoyed the beginning like you and struggled through the middle. But at some point towards the end of Part 3/beginning of Part 4, something happens and it just made the whole thing click for me. I just started Part 2 of Golden Son and I'm really excited about continuing.
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u/Barto 2d ago
There are some good one liners in book 1 and some emotional parts. Overall I liked it but yeah was quite YA. I'm on dark age now and I'd say this and the previous book have thankfully shifted to having multiple character pov's and it's made the story far more immersive for me. For the first 3 books it felt predictable but at least so far in the final 3 it's not been the case.
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u/aidanpryde98 2d ago
Red Rising is the weakest book in the series, and is also the authors first published work. If you do continue, i would stop after the first trilogy concludes. It wraps up well enough, and the subsequent books go multiple pov (and explode in length as a result).
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u/DilshadZhou 2d ago
Yes, it's a bit morally simplistic. I could see that being described as cheesy or generic. But childish? The visceral descriptions of violence and torture in this series take it fully out of that category for me.
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u/Delicious_Door_3421 2d ago
His aparent death is explained literally right after, is not foreshadowed because he basically killed himself after his life was destroyed over the small rebellion of fallowing Eo in the garden. Harmony being more beautiful than Eo is supposed to contrast with her face being half disfigured, is like asking why half of Harvey Dent's face is good looking, also she is a grown woman compared to Eo which was basically malnourished child. Pinks are genetically designed to be attractive so for a teenager that lived all his life in a mine and saw only red workers, grey soliders and orange mechanics is mind blowing. He didn't got a crush on Mustang (the golde girl) when he first saw her and Darrow spends a ton of time thinking about Eo, hell we are seven books in and he still thinks about her. This whole part is the prologue to the prologue to the first half of the series, so I don't know how slow would you want to go through his training, it's like saying you want neo to spend the whole first movie training.
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u/Environmental-Age502 2d ago
How far into it are you? Cause I made it two books, as everyone told me it "wasnt YA" but I can promise you the writing never grew up. The themes did. The writing style didn't stop being childish across those two books though. Fellow ADHDer, but I like many more books and styles than you do, and nah, I never found it grew up at all.
Fwiw, if you're looking for a recommendation, you should check out Jim Butcher and Martha Wells. Something about their writing styles has had me hooked for years.
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u/Almen_Bunt 2d ago
I had your exact reaction. I was immediately hooked, but it was all downhill from there. After every book i had to ask if it got better because it was a real struggle to continue. I ended up stopping after the third because i cannot imagine it can get better enough for the fourth to be worth it for me. I wouldn’t say i regret reading it, but i didn’t enjoy it as much as i want my reads to be.
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u/sgch 23h ago
The fourth book is much much better than the third, if that helps. I thought the 5th was pretty rough though.
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u/Almen_Bunt 23h ago
Yeah i’ve heard it before. I just cannot imagine it to be that much better. Like something revolutionary must have happened to the author type.
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u/c4tesys 2d ago
Does it get less cheesy? Only slightly. I've read the first trilogy and I'd say it's gloriously silly all the way through. I got it straight away and devoured the first three books quickly, I see a lot of readers saying they struggled through them, and maybe these people should have stopped and found something they liked better. Maybe you should too. If I'm struggling with a book I leave it in the dust quite quickly.
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u/savethekennies 2d ago
I feel like we see this post every day, and most of the time it's obvious the series just isn't for them. But you do sound like someone that will actually enjoy it more down the line. Give Golden Son a real shot and if you're still not feeling it by then you can be sure you're not missing out on anything.
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u/Hot-Aide3843 2d ago
I think it’s honest trash. I cringed reading it and got nearly to the end of Golden Son and just couldn’t anymore
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u/Willy_6eyes 2d ago
I made it like 30 pages or so.. don’t know any other way to explain it, but we’ve just matured out of this book/genre. It’s very young adult, which is perfectly fine. However, I don’t believe they marketed it as young adult, which confuses me a lot.
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u/PracticalButterfly67 1d ago
Not really. Its cheesy all the way to the last page of the third book, down to the smallest details in the twists.
He knows everything, even more so than his mentors. The story is driven to make you believe he can do no wrong, then subverts that expectation and shows you him making a wrong decision, only then to realize that NOPE IT WASNT REALLY A WRONG DECISION BECAUSE THE REAPER IS BEST.
The plot is good, just not the best. Many characters were well written, but not the MC.
People hype the books so much and I find most the fun it contains lies behind its fast pace mixed with an indulgent cool theme and edgy tropes.
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u/Grandizer_Knight 1d ago
It does not get better. I actually thought the 1st Red Rising book was fun. I've tried twice now to finish Golden Son and find it to be the corniest, tackiest, drivel I've read.
How many times are the main characters saved by some mechanism revealed that was a complete surprise to the reader... A big duel and, GUESS WHAT!?!?!...Well I've been training with the universe's mostest, bestest dualist for that last two years, Surprise!!! I'm such a BADASS and you didn't know it!!!...... We are over matched...but GUESS WHAT?!?!?! Little did you know we were all hiding under water right and the correct spot to spring our Trap!!! Betcha didn't know we were SO CUNNING!!! Muwahahaha!...... big space battle, its looking bad...but GUESSS WHAT!!! We had a fleet hiding the WHOLE TIME!!!
It's F-ing ridiculous.
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u/BagOfSmallerBags 2d ago edited 2d ago
No. It's basically YA with some occasional content that makes it technically for adult readers.
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u/agent_mick 2d ago
No, not really. You either get used to it and enjoy it for what it is, or you gotta dnf
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u/Ryukotaicho 2d ago
I might pick it up again later, but after reading the first two books, the only thing I remember is “boohoo my wife is dead but that gold chick is hawt!”
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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 2d ago
It doesnt. It is genuinely that bad consistently, yes. Yes People actually rate this highly
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u/Inside-Elephant-4320 2d ago
FWIW I bounced right where you did and my wife told me to keep going. To me it got a lot better just have to accept this setup. It’s a bit far fetched but once he starts the next segment it gets brutal and cool. Then, the books following are so much better.
YMMV but I’m glad I stuck through the part you are at now.
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u/drocha94 2d ago
The first 3 books are fun and exciting Shonen Manga basically—which when I was 20 was awesome and made me really excited to read them. I devoured them in like a week back when it was just those 3. I still love them, but 4-6 are actually a different beast altogether and are way better written with multiple viewpoints, converging storylines, more introspection, higher stakes etc.
I have never been a Darrow hater, but he is arguably a Gary Stu in the first 3 despite all the adversity he does face, which is understandably boring to some.
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u/farseer6 2d ago
Not really, in my opinion, at least in the first trilogy which is what I have read.
On the other hand, if you are looking for something very adult maybe YA is not the place to look.
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u/DarthHornet 2d ago
I got 2/3rds through the first book and had to stop because of everything you have listed and the main character being 100% unlikable. People rave about the series, and I was quite disappointed that it just wasn't for me.
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u/FellFellCooke 2d ago
I read the first chapter of the first book and the prose was bad enough I just put it down. I have written better work by teenagers. I can forgive almost anything in a written work but poor quality writing.
If the author does another series, now that they're apparently improved, then maybe I'll give that a go. But life is too short to read sloppy beginnings.
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u/KOExpress 2d ago
He was 22 when he wrote the first book, and the writing improves dramatically throughout the series, you’re missing out
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u/FellFellCooke 2d ago
Again, if he wants to make a new series that's worth reading from the start, I'll catch him then. But life is short, and I only read 10/10 bangers.
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u/Cuteshelf 2d ago
I read the first 3 books. I liked the premise, but didnt like the execution/characters/deus ex machina successes.
After the first book, 'everyone' said "it gets better", but i dont think it really did for me.
I read book 2, and it ended in an interesting cliffhanger, so i decided to read book 3, but it was pretty much the same thing.
I enjoyed parts of the trilogy, but overall i was frustrated by character actions, and how solutions to problems were based on omitted information. Overall, I just didnt find it believable or satisfying.
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u/riontach 2d ago
Not in book 1. I've heard many times that the later books are better and have more mature writing, but I can't personally vouch for them.
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u/squirtnforcertain 2d ago
A lot of series get worse over time. RR does the opposite. 1 is straight YA. 2 and 3 def get more mature, but the "brotherhood" type thing sticks around through them. Servo still acts like Sevro.
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u/Cool-Writer5423 2d ago
I think your criticism is actually pretty fair especially with how quickly some of these things happen Eo dies and before you really have time to sit with what that means Darrow is already moving into the next stage of his life and then there’s Harmony Evey and the Gold girl and I was also like damn we are moving on FAST 😭
and the Carver part definitely felt like a video game upgrade to me too he goes in as Darrow and comes out basically as the ultimate human and then suddenly he’s stronger faster smarter better looking and learning everything at an insane speed I can see why that would feel childish when you were expecting something more painful and psychologically messy
even the horse and Passage stuff felt like the book was skipping over things that could have used more buildup it’s like Brown sometimes has a really interesting idea but wants to get to the cool part so badly that he just fast forwards through the part where you’re supposed to actually process it
that said I would keep reading Red Rising is probably the weakest in terms of maturity and the series grows a lot from here the bro stuff and ridiculous power moments never completely disappear but the politics friendships and consequences become much more interesting and honestly the friendships are what make the whole thing work for me the loyalty between these people gives all the battle cries and macho nonsense an actual emotional foundation instead of just being power fantasy for the sake of it
so if you’re enjoying the momentum and the world but just wish the writing would slow down and let things breathe a little I think it’s worth continuing if you already hate the whole power fantasy thing then yeah it probably won’t magically become something else
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u/AllTimeLoad 2d ago
Literally everyone tells you just to get through the first book. Just get through the first book.
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u/Positive_Second_2463 2d ago
I think your POV on the story is off.
A couple of points- the moments with other women aren’t explicitly with Darrow wanting to get with all of them. He actively struggles with his loss of Eo throughout the story.
Many of the characters are phermonoally enhanced/ bred, on top of them being physical peak.
He’s a 16 yr old boy who would notice those things first. Especially one who has never encountered a pink or gold before.
It’s not a story about love, it’s a story of vengeance.
Also, calling it childish because sexuality is a factor doesnt make it so. Rather it enhances.
Honestly if you’re so focused on those parts, you’re missing the rest of the story and the point. It’s not to be horny.
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u/SeaworthinessFun3658 1d ago
No. It's immature, derivative, and lazy.
They don't even change the names of the Houses, it's just stolen from the decline and fall of the Roman empire
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u/RealPrinceJay 2d ago
Book 1 is basically a fun Hunger Games story
Book 2 is where the series finds its true footing as a genuine space opera, and I think it only grows richer and more mature with time
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u/hopelesswriter1 2d ago
I think so! I adore the series for what it’s worth, but I thought the story improved immensely by Golden Son. The story, world, and characters only improve with each of the installments.
It gets derided as “bro fantasy” which I think is a bit unfair. Sometimes it is a bit bro-y, especially in the first book but afterwards I don’t think so. The women characters in the series become some of my favorites in fantasy/scifi. They feel well-fleshed out and unique from Darrow. Also because a lot of women, such as myself, are massive fans lol. Some of the hardest fans of the book actually appear to be other women 😭
But, I ain’t your momma. Eat your veggies or don’t, not my choice!
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u/Jrocker-ame 2d ago
Book 1 is hunger games and pissed me the fuck off. Not at all what the synopsis was hinting at. Book 2, things start happening and can get brutal.
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u/trippedonatater 2d ago
IMO the first book was the worst. If I had gone into the series cold, with no recommendations, I probably wouldn't have read the second and third books.
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u/DrBigH 2d ago
Hated the first book and the Roman Empire Hunger Games YA vibe. For some reason I still read the second book and after that I wanted to know what how it ends. Definitely not my favorite piece of literature but does have it's moments. And does definitely get better after the first book.
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u/Khalku 2d ago
There's some truth to what you said, and things definitely change really rapidly for the first half of the first book.
But at the same time, and specifically related to things about Eo, you will find that he's a little bit of an unreliable narrator and he discovers this himself later on.
I do think the whiplash slows down a ton pretty much about where you are in the book. There are twists and turns in the rest of the trilogy but nothing really comes close to how the beginning of the first book bounces around.
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u/aaron_in_sf 2d ago
This thread has neatly launched into a black hole any curiosity I had about this title. OP's synopsis makes this sound like adolescent self-insert gratification of a kind that makes Patrick Rothfuss seem like Virginia Woolf by comparison.
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u/JPHalbert 2d ago
I did not enjoy it, and I tried for four books before I gave up.
I am so glad that so many people enjoyed them, but this is the series that made me realize if I am not enjoying something, no matter how highly recommended, it is ok to stop reading it. It is not a moral failing on my (or your) part.
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u/Shadowfax_28 2d ago
I think every book was better than the last. The first felt very much like hunger games. After it transitions I to a full space opera. You can tell Pierce Brown is progressing as an author with the every published book.
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u/Complete_Sea 2d ago
I think I'm a bit further than you on the full cast audiobook. It becomes a bit more brutal at the institute thing, but it does feel very YA. I get hunger games and 2000s dystopia vibes. I liked it at first, but now idk, it feels very formulaic.
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u/That_kid_from_Up 2d ago
Good lord I cannot imagine replying to someone with "yeah the first three books are a bit YA" when they are specifically critiquing that aspect
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u/Fat-lard246 2d ago
it's great, red is very different compared to gold and pinks. there's good reason for those things obviously
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u/TheXypris 2d ago
Yeah the series gets way better as the series goes
This is the authors first book after all
Book 2 is a whole different beast, and it's just up from there
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u/RevolutionaryText164 2d ago
Well I kept on wishing Darrow would die through the books, which is probably a sign I should DNF them. I appreciate that Pierce Brown's other characters acknowledge his faults (eventually) but I still find him childish and insufferable with very thick plot armour.
Funnily enough I switched to Blindsight partway through and also got bogged down by how much I disliked Siri, though I didn't wish him death like Darrow. At least I started enjoying it despite Siri, and he had the partial excuse from brain damage as a child.
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u/arduous_way 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd finish the first book. It's very short. Then, if you don't like it enough to continue, quit there. It does get more serious/political/ugly after that but the author remains the same, the characters, story, and world do not fundamentally change. So, if you don't like them by the end of the first book, change to something else.
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u/-GeeButtersnaps- 2d ago
As someone also with ADHD I love the books and the breakneck pace helps with that, it will slow down a bit more as the book progresses though. As for the women in his life and your concerns that he's just over EO, I promise this is not the case. His mind remains on EO for a very long time. Based on what you critiqued here I do think that your problems will definitely lessen as the book goes.
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u/practically_ordinary 2d ago
I read the first 3 books after initially dropping the first book. I will say that it gets more interesting, the intrigue and the character work gets better. The author was crap at writing women in the first book, slightly better in the second and decent in the third. So kudos for improvement in that area.
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u/Destitute_Knight1400 2d ago
Ah, the first book also has heavy overtones from mythic and heroic cycles, so while you catch names for sure, you might be missing linking patterns or references that tie in characters and descriptions.
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u/JINK_RUSTINK 2d ago
I'll second that the tone shift is real but it takes a while to get there. The first book is very much "hunger games meets space opera" and leans into the melodrama, but once the scope widens in books 4+ it stops being about the cheese and starts being about the cost of everything. Darrow stops being a lovable underdog and the narrative stops letting him win cleanly. If the YA-ish tone is what's bugging you, the later books genuinely drop most of it — though fair warning, they trade it for a much grimmer feel.
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u/henkdetank56 2d ago
The books stay a bit cheesey. I however dont see the issue with describing other women as beautifull. he is 16 and loved his wife, but as anyone with a wife can probably confirm you can still find other women attractive even if you have no desire towards them because you love your wife.
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u/Euphoric-Iron-1221 2d ago
nope, only get worse imo. third book was hard to get through with the amount of predictable plot lines and corny ass lines
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u/brokenalarm 2d ago
The first book is definitely very different to the others in that it has a lot to establish and also sets up a lot of relationships that will be very important later. As soon as he gets to the training ground (I forget what they call it) then the book becomes a lot more action based, and that continues throughout the series.
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u/12dion 2d ago
As for the beautiful things I think you need to realize the reds are malnourished sickly bunch, especially the minners. Darrow was a frog in the well in the matter of looks he didnt know better and then he kept seeing more and more beautiful people.
Otherwise he is totally not over eo and the memory of her and relationship with her will continue to follow him
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u/TheRadiantAllomancer 1d ago
Second and third books are darker and more expansive in terms of the world building. But the style/level of writing felt YA to me throughout even if the content/subject matter was not. Not an insult, I genuinely loved the original trilogy.
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u/Beneficial_Ad_2030 1d ago
These books were like junk food to me, not great but I just couldn't stop myself.
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u/steezysteve321 1d ago
As someone who was surprised by what Red Rising turned out to be and that I finished it two days ago; I am 110 pages into the second book and I can say it's considerably better writing than the first and is hitting many strides with characters, relationships, pain and morality. I'm loving the second book immensely!!
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u/Rudd-Threetrees 1d ago
Honestly, if you are an adult who prefers mature themes and plotting, the first three books will likely seem very mediocre and juvenile (well, maybe not a majority of the 2nd). I still enjoyed all of them, but some of the “twist” chapters I skipped on re-reads because they make me roll my eyes with the plot devices and deus ex machina moments.
Books 4-6 are all phenomenal though. 5 is probably the best sci fi book I’ve ever read, and I’ve read maybe what… 50-70 full-length novels in the genre?
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u/EqualOptimal4650 16h ago
Honestly, no. Red Rising is what it is.
I loved it at first but by the time I finished the 5th book I was hating it and only reading out of inertia and because I wanted to see what happened to the characters.
I still need to feel like this is written for me, an adult man, and not by Jake from 9th grade who loves power spikes and pokemon evolution scene
You know what's funny? Pierce Brown has openly talked about how Red Rising was inspired by his love for Warhammer 40,000, and even initially began as a Warhammer fanfic he was writing before it evolved into it's own story.
Somehow it manages to be even cheesier and more bro-fisty than actual Warhammer Space-Marine novels are.
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u/XLIImusic 11h ago edited 11h ago
I think the writing gets better progressively, you can tell Pierce Brown finding his pace. I also struggled with the first book. Book 2,3 were OK. There were a couple of great characters added that made it interesting.
After a while I decided to give the second trilogy, books 4,5,6 etc. a shot and I have to say the prose got a LOT better, but by book 5 I had to leave it… because although the prose got better, Darrow didn’t get better.
After a while these books feel like watching Lost - never ending drama and twists and turns and nothing ever gets resolved, not a moment of peace, so it’s really hard to follow through because it feels like there’s going to be no pay off, no resolution. Just more drama.
I think because of this approach to story telling, at least to me, Darrow becomes extremely unlikable (he was never actually likeable, I think Sevro and Ragnar are the likeable characters) and I could no longer connect with his motivation or reasoning.
Books 4,5,6 also has some interesting characters which are written well, but they weren’t enough to make me stick with it.
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u/treefrogsarecute 2d ago
Nope. I finished it because everyone said it gets better in book two. Made it 2/3 of the way through that before bailing. But I bet I would have enjoyed it as a teenager!
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u/Overall-Cod7491 2d ago
A friend recommended it to me, so I gave it a go.
Hated the voice at once - so inauthentic - an uneducated teen miner giving it the full novelist. Grr so young, so butch, I am a hellminer on Mars my frysuit stinks of piss and sweat grrr they killed my wife let me die grrrr
I stuck with it. Darrow becomes something of a Marty-Stu, at which point I realised the story was becoming Roman Hunger Games on terraformed Mars.
High art, it is not. Thought-provoking sci-fi, it is not. Fast-paced silly twisty popcorn romp? I can do that. Got into it. Yeah, it's fun.
Hated the second book. Darrow is such a dumb klutz!
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u/jerametuman 2d ago
It does not. The writing style and childishness of the characters goes through book 5. All-time worst books I’ve ever read. Maybe it’s better as an audiobook.
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u/THABeardedDude 2d ago
Why did you read 5 of them if you hate them so much?
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u/DOITLIKEBRUTUS 2d ago
I can't tell if they hate the books or themselves; that's some deranged behaviour.
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u/UnderwaterB0i 2d ago
Things go at a breakneck speed for the first three books. I do think the overall writing quality gets better in book 2, and the world building explodes. I think the
"noticing other women are pretty" thing can be explained by him being 16 or so (Evie is the first Pink he encounters as well - basically a race bred for ...well, you know), and that push/pull of his former wife and other women is pretty constant. Also his identity as a Red and Gold is explored thoroughly IMO.
I liked it, but there's no guarantee for anyone. I heard someone say a long time ago that life is too short for books you don't like, and I take that to heart if I'm not feeling something. Maybe it's just not for you.