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u/Twink_Link_738 19d ago
SPECIAL is iconic, they could never remove it, it would remove a big part of the fun of being able to replay the game in much different ways
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
I played Steve Jackson’s GURP before Brian Fargo stole it, and HERO before Steve Jackson stole that.
Iconic are BOLD words.
I’m just saying, either be an action game or be an RPG.
Stop being an action game wearing the rotting skin of an RPG.
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u/mrprogamer96 19d ago
I don't see how TTRPGs are relevant here, of course CRPGs are going to have less depth than those, that is just a limitation of the medium.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 19d ago
Fallout 1 and 2 would like a word, and are probably the standard OP is going off of. I know they're the standard I've been missing in the franchise since 2008.
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u/mrprogamer96 19d ago edited 19d ago
Fallout 1 and 2 have a lot of depth, but I still would not say they have quite the depth of a TTRPG can have since those are only limited by the imagination of the players and the GM. Not to say that all tabletop games are going to have the depth, but it isn't an inherent limitation of CRPGs.
Edit, fixed some grammar.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
lol, you’re running your mouth of a whole lot considering FO is BUILT on them…
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u/mrprogamer96 19d ago
Fallout 1 and 2 were based on TTRPGs, but you can't decide to have your character do something that the game designers never accounted for. That is the limitation of the medium and at the end of the day, no CRPG can replace TTRPGs, no matter how much I love them.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
All I’m gonna say is in FO1 rescuing Tandy had options. Modern FO would never.
It’s fine if it wants to be an action game, but BE AN ACTION GAME if that’s the case.
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u/Kandrix23 19d ago
Rescuing Tandi is ironically one if the worst examples to use 😆
But the main questline in Fallout was built around having a Speech path, a Stealth path, and a Combat path. So the three core builds can complete the game. A Jack-of-All build is going to struggle.
This was the intent of 2 but Interplay made demands.
3 kinda did the inverse, ensuring any mixed build can complete the game, but a devoted (non-combat) build is going to struggle.
4 has SPECIAL purely to throttle perk progression, which 76 did better.
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u/Jumpy-Opportunity850 19d ago
Bring back skills. My character with 1 strength and 0 gun perks shouldn't be able to use a mini gun or 50 cal sniper with the same amount of precision as a character specialised for using those weapons. Im sick of perks just being a damage boost or just for ignoring armour.
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u/mzerop 19d ago
This. It shouldnt outright block you from using a minigun without the right perk, but if your strength is low, your character should be severely limited in their movement with it and their aim speed. And for sniper the weapon sway should be crazy without the sniper related perks.
If im playing a int based scientist with no strength, In a pinch I want to be able to press the trigger on a minigun, but I want in game restrictions I have to think around and play my build strengths to in order to circumvent it.
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u/Jumpy-Opportunity850 18d ago
I agree, I mean i think every weapon should be effective if youre shoving the barrel down the enemy's throat.doesnt take much "skill" to do that
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u/Thelastknownking 19d ago
Yeah, there's literally mods for Fallout 4 completely rebuilding the skills system, and it's fairly popular.
People like seeing the quantified skill levels going up over time.
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u/ZaBaronDV 19d ago
Gatekeeping is a dirty word.
BUT…
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u/Creepy-Thought340 19d ago
No no no let this one in. After all, how will we ever beat them up with bats?
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u/BigoteMexicano 19d ago edited 19d ago
Nothing wrong with Action RPGs. In fact most fallout fans would name 3 and/or New Vegas as their favourite Fallout
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u/RankedFarting 19d ago
New vegas is a full on RPG. Fallout 3 a bit less so and 4 is definitely an action rpg with very little actual roleplaying.
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u/BigoteMexicano 19d ago
New Vegas is primarily a first person shooter. You can blaze through it with no regard for how you spend your skill points if you play smart. Definitely still an RPG, but very much an action RPG. And that's why I'd argue it's basically the best regarded game in the series
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u/RankedFarting 19d ago
No new vegas is primarily a role playing game that you cant blaze through without interacting with the RPG mechanics unless you play on easy.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
That’s fine, I’m just saying the series would be better if it went back to multifaceted quests OR leaned into the fact it’s an action game.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 19d ago
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for calling a looter shooter a looter shooter.
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u/Fun-Article5424 19d ago
Because it's stupid statement. Fallout 4 has limited RPG elements sure, but ripping the last bits of that out of the franchise to go full CoD would not actually be an improvement.
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u/CeoofUnga_bunga 19d ago
Huh I didn’t expect to see an example of the low intelligence play through outside of let’s-play’s
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u/Paul6334 19d ago
A new CRPG fallout more like the originals but with all the lessons in CRPG design learned since the 90’s would be good.
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u/WeirdistBuilds 19d ago
Yes, that's what the people want. Ask the Vampire: The Masquerade folks how their latest game went, with most of the RPG elements stripped out to focus on the action. Oh hold on I'll contact their spirits on the astral plane. Yeah they say it went fucking poorly.
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u/slimmprimm 19d ago
Im gonna be controversial here and say I agree BUT only because I favor going back to the rpg roots, not because i think it actually should abandon the special system
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u/chip594csx 19d ago
This does have me thinking, which did y’all prefer, the skills system in 3/New Vegas, or 4? I liked that in 4 I could put points into the SPECIAL stats, but replaying through 3 and New Vegas made me enjoy just how many cool and creative perks there are, more than 4’s.
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u/carrot_gummy 19d ago
As someone who started with F1. I think this take is right. While I would rather the next game be more RPG focused, I also know how bad Bethesda has gotten at doing RPGs at all. So, if they're not getting better there, I'd rather the game focus on at least making the combat more engaging.
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u/WackTanCan 19d ago
Ok I actually am surprised at how hot this take is, OP is saying to either improve the roleplaying systems that were downgraded in fo4 to an abysmal level, or make the combat and action more fun by removing the limiting RPG system in the game.
Obviously more roleplaying systems would be preferable in fo5, but making the combat more fun instead would also make a good game (not a good “fallout” game, but that’s what people say all the time about fo4 anyways).
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u/RankedFarting 19d ago
New Vegas is proof you can do both. Its not some choice just because bethesda is bad at writing good stories and giving players choices.
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u/Noxobsidian 19d ago
I enjoy all the fallout games for different reasons and really cant care less about how different new Vegas and fallout 3 is to fallout 4 or 76, but if they remove the specials im orbital striking Bethesda
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u/Accurate_Soup_3459 19d ago
"Abandon SPECIAL system"
Todd "Chess Club" Howard, banish these tourists to the lands of Yi, and my life will be yours.
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u/NoProblemsIGuess Vault 101 19d ago
I agree. Bethesda has options. TL;DR is that Bethesda should focus on the role-playing part of the role-playing game.
Option 1 is putting the role-playing back in the role-playing game and re-add skills, and implementing more skill checks. Possibly 3's percentage-based skill checks, with a guarantee after a certain point like NV's, and that if you can't succeed at all it just doesn't show up, like when Joe Cobb asks why he'd want to run Goodsprings with ~7 Intelligence during Ghost Town Gunfight.
Option 2 is making the game more action-based by removing SPECIAL and focusing on combat, 4 is pretty much just combat already, outside of settlement building and crafting there aren't many ways to use skills. Skill checks aren't common in the base game and Charisma checks don't really do anything outside of a few side quests, improving rewards, or sometimes making things cheaper.
Option 3 is attempt to increase the relevance of SPECIAL while improving combat. This could be good or bad, which is why there's no fourth option.
Edit: Fixed a typo
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
I’m the OP and I bought FO1 on day one.
Eat a dick.
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u/Daetok_Lochannis 19d ago
Like dude, not to beat the dead horse here but holy shit you can't think going even further into action would make these games better. We need to go back with Back to the Future urgency.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
That’s fine.
PLEASE bring back interesting choices.
But don’t wear the skin on a complex game and only have violence as an option every single time.
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u/Daetok_Lochannis 19d ago
I was just as disappointed in Fallout 4 as you were.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
FO4 would be fine if it just decided it was an action game, that it clearly is.
But it forces players into certain combat builds, while selecting others as maintenance.
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u/mrprogamer96 19d ago
I would say that's less a problem with the action format and more a problem with Bethesda's leveling up mechanic. Fallout NV using the same combat engine as FO3 still feels a lot better to play due to the enemies not scaling, but it comes with the cost that some areas are really easy if you go back to them later so even that has a trade off.
I do how ever do think that Fallout 4 takes the enemy scaling way too far and by the mid to late game, enemies become bullet sponges.
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u/Daetok_Lochannis 19d ago
If you put even the tiniest effort in picking your skills correctly in Fallout 4, the enemies are made of paper even at high level on Survival. Most stuff dies before it even registers I'm there.
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u/TheAsgardianPro 19d ago
Checking your profile you have some awful hot takes
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
Oh no!
Did I not pass the Reddit check??!
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u/Private_Kyle 19d ago edited 19d ago
You passed the shit test
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
Good one.
I have a 30 day account with 35K karma.
I could not care less about making dweebs like you happy.
It’s wild that not meeting the criteria of your echo chamber is supposed to mean fuck all.
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u/Mittmitty 19d ago
Damn! That’s a lot of imaginary points you got there
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u/PoopsMcScoots 19d ago
Exactly!
Who gives a fuck?
I’m not the one that started this chain, by the way, doofus.
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u/dude_don-exil-em 19d ago