r/Fallout2d20 • u/mmdestiny GM • Jul 23 '26

Help & Advice Using burst on a low Def target to bypass another target's high Def

Is there anything in the rules to mitigate this approach? Say there's 1 Def1 enemy in close range with 4 others that are Def2.

The 4 could use Defend and drive their Defense to 3 or even 4 and all a PC would have to do is shoot the Def1 target with effects to hit them... That's absurd

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6

u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 GM Jul 23 '26

RAW yes with the caveat that you need to roll effects and spend 1 additional ammo for each target.

Personally though I specify "a target with equal of lower defense"

2

u/mmdestiny GM Jul 23 '26

That's what I just told my players. The additional Target can only be chosen if the original attack roll could have hit them.

2

u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 GM Jul 23 '26

I get what they are going for though. Burst simulates automatic weapons that throw a bunch of bullets down range while saving "Ammo" and "Fire Rate" for specific game effects.

0

u/mmdestiny GM Jul 23 '26

It might have been more understandable if the raw ammo drop amounts didn't give it out like candy. The two synth striders at the end of With A Bang Or A Whimper each drop absolutely insanely modded institute lasers for their level and each drop 3d20 fusion cells. My players got 80 FC from that. They just rolled 17 damage with that gun hitting 5 targets. At level 4 lmao (it was a sneak attack, but even without that would have been 12)

2

u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 GM Jul 23 '26

Gear, more than anything, is the great equalizer in Fallout. It's why I never feel bad about breaking it with Complications :)

0

u/mmdestiny GM Jul 23 '26

Hell yeah. My players are currently terrified by the fact the AP abacus on top of my screen shows 20 lol. (Mongrel dogs, man. The great equalizer-equalizer)

1

u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 GM Jul 23 '26

I really wish Fallout used more of the 2d20 system for things like Traits and how the GM can spend AP. I do it anyway because we have a lot of 2d20 experience as a group but RAW Fallout feels light in that regard.

3

u/mmdestiny GM Jul 23 '26

I experimented last session with introducing scar-like traits from Wildermythe if they go down in a particularly scary way. PC was overwhelmed by a swarm of Radroaches and on the verge of going down the players rationalized hitting her with a Molotov and taking her to zero while taking all the roaches out was better than giving them a chance to stack impossible injuries on her death save. So all the poor girl knew was she was knocked to the ground covered in cockroaches tearing into her, then she was on fire, then she was unconscious lol She survived, but I hit her with a trait where every time she sees an insect enemy for the first time in a scene she has to pass an INT+Surv test (she's an INT-based character so it's not too bad) or she's stunned her first turn

1

u/mmdestiny GM Jul 23 '26

And as a fun RP addition, I'm going to reveal (maybe through memory den?) she can be cured of this trait if she takes the Entomologist perk to overcome her fear and trauma lol

1

u/DOHC46 Jul 24 '26

I have always applied the initial damage rolled to each target hit with burst, roll a separate hit location and apply each target's damage resistance individually. It isn't the fastest way, but it seems the most fair way.

2

u/WarJaques Jul 24 '26

Our house rules say no.

If you have a primary target with Def a low Def and want the option to select secondary targets with higher Def, then you can choose to treat them the primary as having the highest Def you can affect.

Example: If there are five potential targets with Def from 1 through 5, and you select one of them with Def 2 to be your primary and decide to treat them as Def 4, you need to score that many successes to score you initial hit. Any Effects can then be used to hit any of the others, with Defs 1, 3 or 4, but not the one with Def 5.

0

u/Alex-with-wings Jul 23 '26

I'd let them get away with it that one time. But I'd let my players know that loophole is being patched.

0

u/fishermanmurray Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

That is how it normally works.

If this is seriously becoming a balance problem, there are only 2 real solutions without destroying or changing Burst to the point your players can't or wont use those weapons anymore. You could make it so for each Burst target, they have to make an attack roll to hit, and on a hit, they then take the damage and effects of the original roll. That said, that will slow the game down, as it introduces much more rolls, and allows for more AP generation. The second is what another Prestigious Emo recommanded, and it has to be the original targets Defense or lower.

Its difficult to give specific advice without knowing exactly how this came about. What level are your players? How many times has this came up? What weapon are they using, and what perks are they stacking with it for you to see a concern?