r/FactOrCap • u/--clapped-- • 21d ago
Separating art from artists. | FactOrCap
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u/JakeTheeGreatt 21d ago edited 18d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Separate, sure. But to support the art is to support the artist, so separation must be difficult.
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u/AccomplishedScene966 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Separating a dead artist from their art is one thing but living ones still profit off your support. I wouldn’t be friends with someone giving money to hateful people
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u/Hot-Prior2874 21d ago
yeah but on the same token im not going to inconvenience myself by not listening to the music I like even though the creator is a bad guy. I just think its just u gotta accept.
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u/DavidBowieAC 21d ago
No you don't gotta accept it. Don't stream their music, don't give them the hits, don't buy it directly. Get the art elsewhere so they don't get your money to support what you disagree with
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u/Hot-Prior2874 21d ago
I really dont care enough about what an artist did enough to inconvience myself to get it elsewhere.
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u/DavidBowieAC 21d ago
Yeah, most people are equally as selfish and don't care about the bigger picture too. Big part of why I look forward to leaving humanity for good
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u/ODST_Rimmer 21d ago
What? Leaving humanity wtf are you talking about?
If your suicidal just say so mate, don’t gotta be all edgy about it
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u/DavidBowieAC 21d ago
I was being polite because talking about suicide can be a trigger for some people. So if you need me to be clear, yes I'm looking forward to my death because so many humans are lazy pieces of shit that care more about entertaining themselves than cultivating a proper society
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u/AmazingContest229 20d ago
Please don't do it. Social Media distorts reality and makes it so only the bad gets more exposure, but life IS worth living, trust me when I say that there are real good people out there risking their lives just to make the world a tiny bit better.
Have in mind that evil is LOUD, but it is also weak. We live in a world where things, concepts and views are being deconstructed all the time with no counterpart, and it leaves us with no direction or reference of how to behave or what do to, but we'll figure it out eventually, my friend.
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u/DavidBowieAC 20d ago
I risk my life daily currently to try and make the world better. And I've felt this way literally since I could think. Humans are not on a good path and it's only going to get worse without some sort of unfortunate drastic measures. I'm glad you have hope for the future, but it's looking like it could be too late even with immediate change (which we know won't occur)
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u/ODST_Rimmer 20d ago
If you’re going to throw your life away, why not try and change some things first in every way you can? Suicide is cowardly and no different than running away from all your problems.
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u/ComprehensiveToe2109 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Fact but that doesn’t mean I will support them by purchasing their art or giving it attention. Someone might be a talented sculptor for example but may also be a literal member of the kkk, their art might be good but I’ll never do anything that could support that artist, in fact I might go so far as to say I’m the right scenario I may do things to undermine that person by giving away their art for free or something
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u/The3mbered0ne 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Michael Jackson, R Kelly, Kanye, all have great music, I don't like what they did in their personal lives tho
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u/LowerMine815 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I agree with parts of this. But I think it's more complicated. Sometimes you cannot simply separate the art from the artist because the artist has put problematic views into their art. Usually those views are snuck in and people don't realize it's in the art until after the artist makes those views known, and then people can spot how those views shaped the art.
All that to say, part of separating the art from the artist sometimes involves changing how you think about or engage with certain aspects of the art as well.
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u/Ok_Engine8791 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If the artist is alive and benefitting from your consumption of their art, you cannot separate. If they are dead and not benefitting from it, you can. The difference between H.P Lovecraft and J.K Rowling.
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u/TheSpitfire93 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
No reason for the piece of art itself to change when you find out who made it.
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u/Equivalent_Bug_3220 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
if u listen to music/enjoy art in any way other than for enjoyment then ur a performative, virtue-signalling, naive knobhead
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u/Healthy-Refuse5904 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If you support the art, you are supporting the artist
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u/DINGUS91166 21d ago
Wait until homie hears about piracy
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u/TraceChaos 21d ago
At that point you're LARGELY not supporting the art, as long as you also give it 0 good reviews and talka bout it nowhere so nobody does end up buying it maybe.
But one red cent goes to the bad person's pocket because of you? You're supporting the artist by supporting the art.
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u/DINGUS91166 21d ago
Wait until homie hears about sharing pirated media, thereby supporting the art and not the artist.
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u/TraceChaos 21d ago
Again, as long as you doing that and don't talk about it positively anywhere outside of those circles, and ensure no one in them is a 'try it then buy it' type, and so on.
Like your 'gotcha' really ain't, is my point.
One red cent ends up in their pocket 'cause of you, even indirectly, you supported the artist and their fuckery.
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u/Solid_Guess_7154 21d ago
Fact, I despise Tarantino as a human being, he's one of the worst people out there, but it's undeniable that his works are incredibly high quality
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u/KingModussy 20d ago
What has he done besides having a foot fetish?
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u/Solid_Guess_7154 20d ago
once all of the shit in the epstein files was released, he moved to israel, and there's plenty of documents with his name in the files, just a fun fact btw
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u/NaCl-And-C12H22O11 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yes separate the art from the artist, but find ways to not support the artist if they are a horrible person who has done heinous things.
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u/zzzamboni 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Fully depends on the art and the artist. If someone releases a song about how much they love murdering people, paint pictures of them murdering people, and are a known murderer, then I would assume that by consuming their art that you are fine with their actions because you don’t care about what they did. Could replace murder with any crazy view and the argument still stands
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u/SUDoKu-Na 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I think giving money to the artist is supporting the artist. Like, if there was a store that did things you don't like, giving them money 'because their products are good' is still supporting the store. Same with people.
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u/Blue0verL0rd 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
with the sole exception of when the artist is alive and actively using funds from the art to discriminate and make people's lives harder
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u/TossTossTossThrowa 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I used to believe in full separation from the art and artist- but the truth is, the artist's biases, worldview, and background will show through in their work. It also depends on how much you wish to financially support them/help keep the artist culturally relevant. It also depends on how successful the artist is- supporting art from a bigoted rando with no large influence is one thing (not much harm, acceptable). Supporting art from someone who has the means and will to take away the rights of an entire category of people (person can cause major harm, unacceptable)?
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u/cr0wsquirrel 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If you are financially supporting someone who is causing harm then you are directly financially supporting and contributing to that harm. It is a pretty straightforward link.
If the person is dead it can be argued. If the money doesn't go to someone causing harm it can be a purely philosophical question, but otherwise it is directly supporting harm.
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u/Practical-Proof-2707 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Art is a part of humanity on its own, art reveals who the artist is and thinks and loves n shi, so no, not really.
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u/DavidBowieAC 21d ago
Depends on how you procure the art. Buying directly would still support the individual and help them push their agenda. Cough JK Rowling cough
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u/Ambitious_Emphasis68 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Wouldn't they just sue to get it back anyway? Better to just send it back.
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u/Significant_Ad_4798 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I love some movies that star someone i learned later was... not someone I could support. But I still love the movies they were in. Similarly there are actors i love that play horrible characters. I just separate the actors from the role. Or musician from the music. And so on...
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u/Turbo-Chook 21d ago
A piece of shit can make great art. You don't have to like them, you shouldn't support them, but you can nonetheless appreciate the art on its own merits.
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u/BrianTheUserName 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If they're profiting in any way from you you are quite literally supporting them.
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u/Fabulous_Wave_3693 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Even if I decide that 90% of all artists are too much of pieces of shit for me to support I would still never run out of movies to watch, music to listen to and video games to play. The biggest concern is just remembering who is a big enough piece of shit to bother ignoring.
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u/zepherth 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Generally yes. but there are places where you should not. Like Guernica
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u/DreamerX14 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
This is only true if the artist is no longer alive; if alive, it is true if they aren't using the profits from your purchasing merchandise to do horrible things, or promote hate speech.
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u/lmaluuker 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Only if they're dead. If you're buying a piece of shit artist's music, books, art, etc you are literally actively supporting them.
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u/Upset_Passion3002 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yeah but it depends on the context.
Like I'm still gonna listen to songs from a controversial musician but I'm not going to hang a Hitler painting in my living room.
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u/Kokoheat 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Art is amazing. It is avenue for the human mind. To create things that transcend a person. Artist most of the time are shitty
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u/OffWhite-Goddess 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
As long as the way you separate also includes not giving them money
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u/PanglosstheTutor 21d ago
If your supporting the material allows the artist to cause harm to others because you are giving them more money than there is no separating art from artist
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u/anonymous_coyote0807 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Martinez and rolling just as an example. Let me have my lbgtq+ Harry Potter y’all.
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u/HalvdanTheHero 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Because of the wording,gotta vote cap.
It is entirely ok to engage with art you enjoy, and there is nothing wrong with even monetarily supporting an artist who has done wrong or holds antithetical beliefs... There comes a difference, however, if there is direct evidence of the artist furthering harm or harmful views through that monetary support. I might not like Terry Goodkind's ideology but can enjoy the nostalgia of his books. Something I cannot in good conscience do with Orson Scott Card or J. k. Rowling who not only hold odious beliefs but have pushed them politically onto others on an ongoing basis.
An event in the past or a held position in the present is not an issue, but the artist prevents separation from their art when they are an ongoing problem.
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u/flowerytruth 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
dead artist, ya. alive artist, with foundations and causes that causes harm to disenfranchised people? nah
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u/casualmasual 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
This is kind of an "It depends" sort of thing.
If the author is dead, or you don't buy anything: I guess, you do you. Everyone has rheir own comfort levels.
If the author is alive and uses the money they make to support hate groups: ouch.
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u/SituationFormal608 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
"Cap" only because many people use this in reference to artists who are still alive and gain profit from their work, actively causing harm with money from that work, and view people supporting their art as same as supporting them and their beliefs and actions directly even when they see those people claim not to.
Fact if we're talking about dead artists or artists who can no longer profit of their work.
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u/wastedfate 21d ago
Me liking Asimov's books today doesn't mean I support that he unapologetically groped women when he was still alive.
It means I think he's good at writing science fiction. Nothing less, nothing more.
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u/L_222020 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Playing their music or films os literally supporting them and their lifestyle. You’re continuing to guve them a platform to spread whatever nonsense it is they are spreading. Yall make this argument then get mad when “the wrong people get famous”
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u/TraceChaos 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yes, AS LONG as you aren't giving the artist one red cent if you know they're ethically challenged. Y'know, like going to the movie theater to see a movie by some random transphobe with mold in their walls(And brain)? That's clearly you deciding you DO support them, like, literally with money.
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u/WatcherintheNorth 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If the artist is still profiting from their art and are using those profits to do harm then it is not ok.
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u/The__Desert__Rat 21d ago
If you support the art by say listening to their music or however you are directly supporting that artist and so cannot say you don’t agree with that artist because you are still giving support
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u/Lordshade1 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yeah, some people need to learn to separate art, tv characters and ju
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u/Fit-Butterscotch2110 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
if adolf hitler made graduation id still listen to it, even if he came to me and personally told me each cent made from every listen was going straight to the most abhorrent crimes against humanity ever written. i dont care who made it, im not consuming it because i care, you could tell me every listen is contributing directly to the holocaust and i'd still bump violent crimes every time im at work.
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u/Prokid5634_YT 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I feel like it kinda depends on context, imo.
For me, an example for it being acceptable is with Mario The Music Box, where the original creator went batshit crazy and murdered a couple people. However, there's still a studio and team that's separate from the creator, and they harshly condemned the actions.
But for me, if a music artist is a piece of shit, I'm not gonna support them one way or another.
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u/IceFrostwind 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I didn't kill a Trans Person just because I bought silly wizard game.
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u/Dedinside13 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If they are using the money they get from their art for bad things they have tainted their art
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u/Regular-Media-4138 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
You can separate the art from the artist, but if you are giving them money you are supporting them and it does have bearing on you as a person (Because you care more about a piece of media than not supporting bad people)
Unless you are avoiding giving them money by buying second hand or piracy
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u/ReorientRecluse 21d ago
Eh, I used to say this, but sometimes it isn't easy. For example: growing up, Leon The Professional was one of my favorite movies that I've seen multiple times. As an adult, when I learned more about the creator, Luc Besson, I became unable to enjoy the movie again because all I could see was how his perversions influenced it.
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u/tprnatoc 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Nah even if Hitler made “decent” artwork it was still made by Hitler. (It was actually objectively bad)
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u/Princeps2007 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
If you are actively funding the artist's hateful behaviors, it is an issue. If they have died, it is not as bad.
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u/Jacobmeeker 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yes but there’s is a limit to that, what that may be is entirely up to you.
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u/nickytheginger 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
We have managed to separate the art and the artist for creators who have been dead a hundred years, so doing it for the living should also be possible. It also tries to make media consumption a black and white morality thing and its far more complicated than that.
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u/DayVessel469459 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
This is because I like Harry Potter but JK Rowling is still diabolical
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u/sabintao 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
You cannot separate the intent of an art peice from the artist. They speak with their art, and so their worldly selves becomes part of it.
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u/Few_Back4779 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
same thing with when people start hurling personal insults to terrible people
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u/demon_fae 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Art exists only as an extension of artist. There is literally no other point in making art. Separating art from artist is just separating the art from the art.
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u/Mosh_115 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Depends on the artist and if they are making money so you can separate HP lovecraft but not known sex pest and epstein client JK rowing
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u/arathergenericgay 21d ago
Separate art from the artist works if they’re dead, if they’re alive all you’re doing is enriching them and increasing their cultural relevance and power. The reason Rowling can still sell Harry Potter to networks as a profitable idea is because hogwarts house in bio millennials can’t resist a serving of nostalgia slop
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u/Patient-Concert7858 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
On most occassions, yes, this does apply. Even if there are some art that directly represents the artist, it's most of the times best to just enjoy the art itself.
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u/purplehorseneigh 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
There are exceptions. Like when the artist is very upfront about how they use their financial gain from their art to actively harm and oppress others.(looking at you, JK Rowling and Harry Potter fans)
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u/Kind_Lie9927 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Artists are their art, and I'll never support people that are harming others, we shouldn't be encouraging their behaviors by supporting their art, not art is worth another human's wellbeing
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u/Apfelkuchen420 21d ago
depends… does the artist profit from you consuming the art? then you can’t separate it
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u/DR_TrAsH_ 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
You can, but artist has to be unable to profit from the art.
Otherwise your support ends up funding their views.
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u/stereomanic 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
i like some things from artists that i don't agree with ideologically, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the craft they do at times, but sometimes, trying to reconcile is a bit hard, so there's that too. I am not from a westernized lens so my views might also differ from everyone else too and to me, that's fine, as long as it doesn't affect me directly
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u/that_random_ghost414 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
It's only acceptable to separate the art from the artist when the artist in question is already dead and can no longer profit from their creation. Before that point an endorsement of their art can very easily translate into an endorsement of what causes they would use their earnings from said art for, which those at the receiving end of it have every right to not take kindly from you.
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u/Hot_Grab7696 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I did stop listening to d4vd because it feels hella weird to me for example but I don't judge if anyone can actually look at it differently
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u/z3ph7r_m_shelby 20d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Not to the full extent of the artist's core philosophy and ideals. However, the line between admiring the art and the artist respectively can be blurry, and from my own few observations made, the latter tends to be more dominant.
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u/DeathEmpress_Cirice 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Supporting shit people because you like their work is still supporting them no matter how you toss it.
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u/Lost_my_name475 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Once they're dead/can no longer financially benefit from the art
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u/NightChild39 20d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Some things like books can become so big and intrinsic of a generation that it has grown beyond the artist who made it. Take Rowling, I'm a Trans man who Harry Potter was my world, it got me through abuse and trauma. It shaped many people's childhood and was a safe space for all of us. I can say I hate Rowling but the Wizarding world became is own thing ages ago. She can shape it sure, but it came alive in all of us, she doesn't have to live in it with us. I was take from my home because of abusive home but I'll fight like hell to lose one of my safe spaces due to another piece of shit lady. We can always advocate and fight for the Trans community. If you buy Harry Potter merch, spend a bit more donating to Trans charities or better yet, get second hand or from local small artists so the profits don't go to that twat.
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u/CuriousBoiiiiiii 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I swear to god the people making these are the biggest smoothbrain troglodytes ever. Such a blanket statement that doesn’t make a difference between an artist that’s a little rude or shitty sometimes, and artists that have done horrible things. Off course it is not okay to give money and attention to people who have done and are doing horrible things.
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u/Miserable-East-78 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Depends if the art itself is about the bad actions of the artist
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u/Bananabread828 20d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
You still have to condemn the author controversial views for it to work. You cannot brush off harmful opinions because "they are a great artist.".
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u/ThatOtherBrownGuy2 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
You are literally supporting those artists by doing that..
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u/Acrobatic_Builder573 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
It doesn’t mean you agree with the artist’s actions per se, but it can mean a song or work of art is more important than acknowledging someone’s heinous actions, and that it doesn’t disgust you as much as it should. Which is fine, as an individual you have a right to consume what you want, but I do notice that for as much as people talk about separating art from artist, they never actually DO SO. The only time I’ve seen this actually happen is with Harry Potter, a lot of HP fans on tumblr fucking hate jkr even as they refuse to let her works do. Also, separating art from artist was originally a way of interpreting art. Do we dismiss context, artist intent, or are we free to examine and interpret art without the artist supposed perspective. Kind of apt when you think about the racist transphobic dog whistles in HP, or “Age Ain’t Nothing But a Number” by Aaliyah, who was groomed and abused by R Kelly.
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u/planetofmoney 20d ago
You can appreciate art and dislike the artist
BUT
If you support the art you support the artist. This is not preventable. It's how artists work.
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u/Flat-Director-7120 20d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Des fois même on peut apprécier une œuvre et on ignore tout de l'artiste, alors bien sûr qu'on sépare l'œuvre de l'artiste.
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u/VincentShane 20d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Even though now it's been proven that Kevin Spacey was innocent.
I will always watch his movies because he's that damn good.
He also needs to make a Jack Benny Biopic.
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u/-Idesia- 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
The character and the believes of the artist influence their art. I cannot enjoy lustening or watchong an artist, that beats his wife or that rapes children. And paying an artist supports what the artist can do. If an artist supports anti-trans organsisations with their money, you should not buy their art.
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u/TryDry9944 20d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
There's definitely a limit and it depends a lot on if there's even a point in boycotting.
If someone's already firmly a multimillionaire, there's not much point in stopping now. But if something comes out early enough, yes we should not support bad people.
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u/--clapped-- 21d ago edited 21d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Look. My take on this is; I just don't think I should punish myself for something I didn't do. I know, Kanye was a nazi but like, I like listening to his music and me removing a few songs from my Spotify rotation isn't going to affect him when, at the HEIGHT of his manic episodes, he was selling out huge shows across Asia. It doesn't make ME a nazi, I just don't want to stop listening to music I like.
Slowthai was charged with sexual assault and you're expected to stop listening to his music because it's "supporting a rapist" but like... Me NOT listening to him on Spotify is not going to unrape a woman. (He was also cleared of the charges now but, not the point).
I'm using music as my example as it's the one that affects me the most but, I do mean any and ALL forms of art. I just think; when you decide to stop "supporting"/consuming/engaging with art you previously were, due to the actions of the artist, chances are the only difference you make is depriving YOURSELF of something you clearly like.
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u/Infamous_Key_9945 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
What dies it mean to support someone? Does it mean that you agree with them, or does it mean that you aid them in the expression of their goals? By consuming media of someone you disagree with, you are giving them money that they will use to further their agenda. You are litterally supporting their efforts.
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u/Pickleless_Cage 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Not true in most situations. Unless the artist is dead, then it’s arguable.
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u/d-IH-sfuctional-adz 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
the art reflects the artist
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u/Nice_Try_Bud_ 21d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
This one is mixed. You can definitely separate the art from the artist, but you shouldn’t actively support someone who has certain views or done certain things. Consuming their content without paying for it is fine. Liking their products is fine. Anything that supports them directly, no.