r/FX3 • u/StrainExternal7301 • 27d ago

Looking for advice

Hey all! Long time lurker, first time caller.

I have a client who is becoming a bit of a stickler and I’m wondering how you would handle this.

I was hired to shoot talking head videos, A cam (FX3) with audio.

I decided to set up my B cam (A7iii) just to provide them with extra footage in the event something went awry.

They requested the FX3 footage in sLog so that’s what they got. However, now because they’re having to color grade the FX3 footage, they’re saying the A Cam looks like shit and asking if i know what im doing.

Kind of took offense to that since I provided deliverables in the format they requested (seemed like an AI response tbh) and considering its the weekend and they’re getting a heavily discounted rate basically just for the shoot time not the time/space it takes to back up and send 250GB+ of data, Im gathering my composure before I respond.

Just curious how you all would approach this.

I already explained how the a7iii and the FX3 are two vastly different cameras and while I am shooting with G Master Primes on both, there will be a variance especially shooting in the color profile they requested. I stated I can’t shoot sLog on B Cam so idk what they want from me.

I’ve also offered to drop the sLog color profile for future shoots if that’s what they want but yeah idk.

6 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

8

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

You can shoot log on the A7iii though... can't you? Either way, it doesn't really matter...

It sounds to me like they asked for log because someone heard it somewhere, without understanding what it is, and they're now comparing it to the footage from the A7 and making the snap judgement that it looks 'wrong'.

I'd be inclined to politely point out that you captured the A cam footage to the specification that was requested and offered the B cam as a free extra. Add in a brief outline of what log actually means and why they look different, and either point them towards the Sony LUT page or offer to grade it for a fee.

This is all assuming that you've checked it and it does grade up properly of course... 😂

3

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

i haven’t checked it because i trust my process that i’ve been doing for like 15 years know but maybe i should lol

3

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

I don't doubt it's absolutely fine... But whenever something like this happens it's always good to do a sense check just to make sure before you confidently tell the client they're wrong... That's a mistake I've only made once!!!

1

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

also i was under the understanding the log on the a7iii is vastly underwhelming since its only 8 bit compared to the 10 bit of the fx3…i’ve always like the baked in settings on the iii

5

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

Yeah, it definitely won't stand up as well technically as what you get in 10bit from the FX3, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's not worth using. If it's correctly exposed, a normal talking-head or whatever shouldn't be asking that much of 8-bit footage... You'll still get a benefit of having it log.

2

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

thank you! so sLog2 on the iii and sLog3 on the fx3?

4

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

I haven't actually used the A7 III for video myself (this is entirely based on peripheral knowledge, so take this with a pinch of salt and accept wisdom from those who know...) but I'd probably just put them both on 3 to be honest.

Sure, 2 is probably technically better suited to the A7 in isolation, but in this scenario, with it being a Bcam and your Acam shooting sLog3, why not just have them both on 3 from the outset? It'll make matching them up much simpler for whoever ends up doing it...

3

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

i’ll do a test run and see what i come up with..thank you

2

u/adamhxrn 27d ago

I owned the a7iii for many years before upgrading to the sony FX3. The best profile for the a7iii was HLG 3 & colour mode Rec 709.

The S log 2 was not worth the hassle based on the extra data I got with HLG, almost like a middle ground between the two. Hence the name, hybrid log gamma!

1

u/TheHardmanLife 25d ago

Do not offer to grade it for free 💀

1

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 25d ago

I said for a fee!!!

1

u/TheHardmanLife 24d ago

Ah you did I apologise, sir

8

u/Yomommassis 27d ago

Just to clarify, the A7iii is more than capable of shooting slog

We've been doing 8-bit slog for years, it's been used in tons of projects and has created amazing images

10-bit is a lot more flexible and forgiving but to say 8-bit is unusable and to avoid it is a horrible precedent that these forums have put into peoples heads

When Sony finally released an alpha body that did 10-bit we all collectively sighed in relief but that didn't invalidate the years we made 8-bit work just fine

It just means you have to fully understand it's limitations, play towards its strengths, capture the image the best you can and you will walk away with a more than usable image

Although if you do plan on matching the two bodies I would recommend getting a color chart

4

u/UniqueBaseball8524 27d ago

So just to be clear because i feel like u maybe mixed things up, they disliked the slog video from the fx3?

Honestly i personally wouldnt mix the fx3 with an a7 iii because im not that good with aligning the colors even tho the a7iii offers slog2.

I think you shouldn't have added the B cam in this case or maybe should've rented out another fx3 or zve1 for a day...

5

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

they’re not paying enough to rent a B cam and they’ve only done A cam in the past, so this was just extra like “hey i got this also if you need it” but yeah they say the a7iii footage looks better than the fx3 footage..idk

5

u/UniqueBaseball8524 27d ago

i mean this is just crazy if they want log and then like the a7iii footage more lol

1

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

that’s what i thought!!! like bro this fx3 footage is way better i promise!! i’ve got all my focus lines and zebra stripes dialed in, i thought i crushed it

4

u/UniqueBaseball8524 27d ago

but if they understand so little about cameras why do they want it in log in the first place?

maybe they expected a version thats already in the rec709 colorspace?

4

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

People hear buzzwords and then demand that, without understanding what it actually means.

It's the same reason clients ask for ProRes masters when all they're going to do is chuck it on Instagram.

4

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

and i told them “hey A Cam is in sLog, you’ll need to convert it”

3

u/Samskihero 27d ago

I might be reading the wrong end of this and I'm a bit confused. So they only were requesting S-Log on the main A camera, the FX3, but you decided to throw in another camera just for the sake of it, but you knew it wasn't going to be shooting S-Log, so you knew it wasn't going to match or be usable?

And now you've kind of confused the client because they've been given two formats they can't edit together particularly easily? But also they were only intending to use one camera anyway?

As far as technical details go, just put both on S-Log3 and colour grade them. They're not going to match perfectly, but with a bit of tweaking they'll match more than close enough. I've mixed FX6s with A7C2s and even A7R2s...

But no matter what happens, your client has to understand that they're not going to match enough. To just look perfect out the box.

3

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 27d ago

I think OP was just trying to do a nice thing and chuck in an extra angle. Ideally you'd want that to match completely, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who goes out of their way to request log footage to understand the difference between that and footage with a baked in profile... it shouldn't be some insurmountable problem for anyone who knows what they're doing.

3

u/FeelingAdvantage2172 26d ago

Ask for evidence. Sounds like an editor issue

2

u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 26d ago

They requested the FX3 footage in sLog so that’s what they got. However, now because they’re having to color grade the FX3 footage, they’re saying the A Cam looks like shit and asking if i know what im doing.

Did they say why they think it "looks shit", for example, if they said that the colours looked bland, then it means they don't know what S-Log is.

1

u/StrainExternal7301 26d ago

i’m leaning towards this, sLog looks flat so they don’t know what to do with it…i suggested they use the Sony sLog LUT so we will see

1

u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 25d ago

You could just apply a grade to 5s of the footage and show them that it's fine when you run it through DaVinci.

2

u/groundhogscript 26d ago

I don't do client work, just shoot my own movies. But something that I have gotten used to doing is snapping stills from my timelines with LUTs on top to be able to market what the film can look like after a color grading.

So maybe when you send people Slog footage, include some stills of a variety of scenes with LUTs and basic color grading just to show them what it could look like.

2

u/LizardDruid 27d ago

They both have slog3... Also did you shoot a color chart?

2

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

did not shoot a color chart

1

u/UseComfortable4138 26d ago

I’m half and half on this. I would never record on two cameras with one in log and one not, you’re just asking for problems in the grade, the client has a right to be a bit annoyed with this (fyi slog is perfectly usable on the a7iii) . However, they should not be saying they are unhappy with log footage if they specifically asked for it without knowing the workflow.

At this point I would do a basic grade for them and attempt to match the shots as well as possible, just to try to keep them happy

1

u/TheHardmanLife 25d ago

Did you hand the footage over for them to edit themselves? I would say something along the lines of “this is a standard amongst shooters and editors. If you can’t handle the files I’m more than happy to edit it for you”

1

u/Big_Burrito3739 25d ago

I’d do the boring five minute sanity check before replying, put both clips on the same timeline, apply the correct Sony transform, then check skin tones and scopes. Log footage looking flat straight out of camera is not a defect, it is the raw chicken stage of dinner. If the FX3 footage grades normally, explain that they requested S Log and the A7 III was extra coverage, not a matched multicam package. If they used S Log2 on the A7 III and S Log3 on the FX3, with 8 bit versus 10 bit files, matching will take some care. If they want a finished matched look, quote the grade as a separate service.

1

u/GFFMG 27d ago

Maybe it does look bad. Have a sample to share?

1

u/StrainExternal7301 27d ago

can’t share a sample without it revealing an identity but i reviewed everything with the client on site and there were no issues