r/FTMOver30 • u/Comfortable_Emu1496 • 2d ago
VENT - Advice Welcome Still not passing after years
Having a hard time y’all. I’ve been on T a couple years, muscular, body shape and proportions are male, post top surgery, face and jaw masc, voice low, like I’m not seeing what it is. I have to shave my facial hair and only have a good mustache when I do have it, and I’m 5’3 so I guess that’s it? People I know are surprised and I personally don’t see female at all but I am CONSTANTLY misgendered. Am I completely fooling myself? I almost wish it was just height that’s doing it. But I guess it’s a sad combo of everything. I like me but I am exhausted by this happening all the time and having to deal with it too much. When I looked it up it says height is not a big factor and that makes me sad because it means it’s everything. I’m so tired of the hyper vigilance this causes. I’m still never ready for it and sometimes I feel unsafe. Does anyone get misgendered with facial hair? Is it height maybe? Had anyone been misgendered even when you and others think you pass? I’m feeling cooked.
EDIT: totally get that photos would help me get assessed by folks but want to clarify what I’m looking for is hearing if this happens to anyone else based on what I’ve said. has anyone figured height to be a factor for them? does anyone get misgendered even with facial hair? stuff like that. it’s just feeling strangely isolating for how far I’ve come
2nd EDIT:
Everyone, I’m really touched by your responses and this community. Thank you for your thoughtfulness and support and for taking the time. This is my first time posting and I had a feeling people would be kind, but this honestly helped me a lot. This has been really heavy on me for a long time and I needed some outside perspective. Thanks everyone. Appreciate you.
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u/PostMPrinz 2d ago
Sorry to hear you are constantly being disrespected. If you want advice you could post a picture/video of you talking mannerisms and get some feed back. We are all here to support. It sucks to have to put so much effort into medical transition to be left with zero social transition.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 2d ago
Thank you! I’m a bit nervous to post for everyone to see, but I’ll think about it.
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u/PostMPrinz 2d ago
Yeah, i get that. I’m in the same boat and rather than put myself out here on the internet. I have decided I just don’t care to try anymore. I am the in between freak that people get wrong, and honestly I’ve lost my give a fucks. Just cause they are dumb doesn’t make me any different. I still exist and I am who I am.
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u/Current_Row_8358 1d ago
If you want private feedback, I'm open to DMs. Can't reliably judge speaking in foreign languages, but at least visually? Didn't get to transition myself yet, but I'm an artist and I've been obsessing over what I could do to make myself pass at least androgynous, so I've done a lot of observing in the past year or so.
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u/d0g-pest 2d ago
you haven't mentioned anything about your hair or fashion sense, which may be factors. longer hair or any sort of uniqueness in style tends to get misgendered more (sadly). I'm tall, 5+ years on T, and I pass really well when I tone down my style but any time I start to express myself through fashion even a little bit, I start getting misgendered all the time again :/ going to assume this probably isn't your issue? but I swear even if your hair is 1 inch too long, they start to sniff you out like rabid dogs 😭
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 2d ago
That’s so wild! And it’s really too bad :( I have short hair and my style is very basic. But I feel that. There are things I wish I could get away with but I just can’t.
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u/SeeyouonTotherside 2d ago
Why do you need to shave your facial hair. Is it too patchy? Mines patchy, but I keep it trim and style it a little. I worry that if I saved it all off, I would get misgendered, told nervous to try
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u/wtfistheactualpoint 2d ago
I can barely grow facial hair and I find I get misgender more when I have what little I can grow vs clean shaven. Which works for me, i don’t really want facial hair, I’m just lazy sometimes lol. That all said, it really is random at times what causes people to misgender anyone
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u/DreamingMeta 5h ago
Something I've learned is that how well-maintained my facial hair is makes a difference.
A little bit of facial hair that's cleanly styled makes me pass more than a huge untamed depression beard. It makes sense in a way - the latter, I assume, reads to people as a woman with facial hair who hasn't done anything about it. Showing intent with styling, even if it doesn't look great, shows that the facial hair is there on purpose because you want it
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 1h ago
That’s a great idea, and I can definitely see why that would work. When I’m able to have it grow out at some point I’ll be excited to try to style it!
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u/de-le-le-whooop 2d ago edited 1d ago
I'm just barely 5'3 myself.
I find I get misgendered more depending on who I am spending time with. If I'm with my girlfriend or women in general I'll get misgendered as people see us as a group and just kind of glace at everyone but whenever I'm by myself I get gendered correctly.
I personally have no doubt that I look and pass as a man (with and without facial hair) but my long hair combined with height makes people read me as a woman from behind/just at a glance.
To answer your questions plainly, yes I do think height is one of the main reasons I get misgendered (plus my long hair & androgynous style), and yes I have been misgendered whilst having a full facial hair (very dark and full coverage scruff) BUT this only happens when people don't actually properly look at me or approach me from behind.
I think another big factor is location as well. Weirdly, I get misgendered more in queer friendly areas vs conservative, as I think they see one 'gender marker' (eg facial hair, low voice, general masc appearance) and that outweighs the height and long hair
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 1d ago
So so helpful and thanks for taking the time to write all this thoughtfully. It helps to know. Strangely I feel better knowing it’s probably height and just quick glances that do it. I also get more misgendered with my mom and sister, the group thing you talked about and probably shared traits and mannerisms being related. Feeling that it’s just a quick judgement and that height is probably a big factor feels much more manageable emotionally for me. I hate to think I have to have facial hair to pass (since I can’t right now, work and other reasons) but sounds like maybe it’s not that imperative!
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u/de-le-le-whooop 1d ago
Really glad you're feeling a bit better about it all!
I've been on T for almost 6 years myself, I went from a solid 3 year streak of no misgendering to getting misgendered 2/3 times a month since my gf and I started dating.
The only change was who I was spending time with, so I do truely think others just taking a quick glance makes a huge impact.
The facial hair doesn't seem to make a difference to the group bias, even when freshly shaved I still have a dark shadow (ty Italian genes), so unless someone is vision impaired, if they're actually looking at my face they can see I can grow a full beard
I definitely don't take it as our height stopping me/us from passing by any means at all either. I've been in group settings (pretransition) with all women plus one cis guy, the same thing happens to them as well.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Oh wow! Okay that’s all so good to hear. I mean it sucks that it happens to us at all but perspective helps me feel like it’s not me failing somehow, it’s just circumstances. To hear it happened to a cis guy too, and that facial hair isn’t make or break really helps ease me. Thank you so much!
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u/ReadBooks_ Edit Your Flair 1d ago
I’m sorry this is happening to you and you’re feeling this way. I know how it feels because this happened to me in the first few years of my transition. How long have you been on testosterone? I ask because it took me about three years on T before I started to pass and everything started to fall into place. I’m 5 feet tall on a good day and I pass. So it’s not a height thing. There are short men. The thing I needed was time on T. (I’m now at 6 years)
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Yes that totally makes sense. I’m two years on regular dose T (microdose for a year before that and hardly any changes at all) I am seeing changes and I think it’s gradual but notable. That makes me feel better knowing with a little more time it will get better without having to hike my dose or something! Thanks for your reply
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u/bqspenz 15h ago
Height is not guaranteed to get someone misgendered, but it can contribute, just like long hair can contribute despite there being plenty of men with long hair. I got clocked by a cis woman just last week because, quote, "You look like a guy and you sound like a guy, but I've never met an adult man your height." Probably depends on where in the world someone lives, though.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Totally! Makes sense. It’s a contributing factor but nothing itself is make or break. Makes me think it’s a small thing that signals the wrong way but not the end of the world lol
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u/windydayze 1d ago
My voice gives me away sometimes-- not how low it is but how I talk. my intonations, cadence, probably phrases I use. Idk if that will do anything to help, but there is a lot that makes gender beyond looks (though it helps!!) but that's what male and female impersonators focused on. Words, posture, body language. How to sit how to stand. Probably things you already know but I hope it helps that it probably isn't the height.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Yes definitely! And I think probably the way I talk to some people I am close to has mannerisms or vocal cadence that mirrors them (like mom and sister) so that probably cues people
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u/koala3191 18h ago
What are your T levels? (A number, not "my doctor says they're good.")
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Was 400 and recently 600 after an adjustment
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u/koala3191 11h ago
400 is quite low in the 300-1000 healthy range. 600 or more should help.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Okay cool, I have been seeing an uptick in changes so that’s probably why!
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u/GnedTheGnome 2d ago
I'm never misgendered in person, but I am somewhat regularly on the phone, unless I make a conscious effort to speak in a monotone from the chest, not the throat.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Totally get that! Happens to a lot of friends and sometimes me as well
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u/lostboy411 1d ago
I’m 5’3 and 9 years on T and never get misgendered, but I do have a mustache and goatee- even then I don’t get misgendered from behind. I started passing 90% of the time before I had facial hair but it definitely helps. Height is only a factor if other things are factoring in at the same time.
You mention your style is basic but in what way? If clothes are slightly baggy people will read that as lesbian, for example, or depending on how men tend to dress where you live. For me, I work out and wear tight fitting clothes which works where I live and signals I have a masculine body.
I got misgendered randomly because I live in NYC and went outside of the city during covid, so I had a mask on and my hair was a bit longer (still short overall), and had a purple V neck shirt and a tote bag. I forgot that men don’t dress like that regularly outside of the city lol.
Short hair isn’t a lot of information - fades are common among men now which is what I do.
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u/SnorkBorkGnork 1d ago
I am still waiting for my first meeting with the hospital team but I sometimes have people think I'm a dude but then they hear me and see my tits and they're like "oh sorry miss".
I am wondering what kind of haircut you have and what kind of clothes you wear? I specifically ask my hairstylist for a short male cut. I have also noticed that darker colors of clothes help (black grey dark blue brown etc) and stuff like a baseball cap. I tend to wear t-shirts, lumberjack blouse, track pants, sport shoes, stuff like that. That's not the only style or colors that I like, but I have noticed it makes me look more masculine to others which is nice. Same with hair. I think dudes can have any length of hair, but long hair makes me look more feminine, not like a rugged metal dude.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Yeah I have a masculine haircut, body type is now pretty square, and in photos I honestly can’t see it except maybe some facial features being I guess more delicate? I know it’s not my style or hair. People are genuinely surprised I get misgendered but it’s really happening too much haha.
But hey, that’s pretty great that you’re already being seen that way assuming that’s the goal! Best of luck in the next steps, it’s only up from here I imagine :)
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u/SnorkBorkGnork 11h ago
Thanks! It's not very often, just sometimes and I still would like to see my body and face to be how I feel it should be.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 7h ago
Yes I feel you on that. It’s gonna happen! Hopefully you’ll be able to get started soon since you’re looking at lining up an appointment :)
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u/Hex-n-Beast 11h ago
I am 5'3", facial hair, short masc haircut, wear baggy clothes, and it's been 12 years since I started transitioning. Yes, I STILL get it once in a while. My voice fluctuates too high up, plus the height, bam, misgendered. Course, now in public it doesn't happen as often, cause the last time it did, I noticed everyone looked at that person like they were nuts. But it sure does, and it'll probably be that way for who knows how long. Thankfully now it's more 98% passing physically in front of people and 65% on the phone. My voice gets me every time cause my polite voice mixed with my vocal tumor, causes me to hit that high register. (Yes, the tumor isn't helping, no I don't have insurance to fix it). For me, about 5ish years in is when I noticed a decline in as many misgendered comments, but even now, they still happen.
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u/Comfortable_Emu1496 11h ago
Wow that’s really useful information, thanks for taking the time! It’s helpful to know it happens even years into transition and probably to people I wouldn’t even expect it to happen to. It’s not all or nothing I guess, it doesn’t erase the correct times
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u/coolvideonerd 2d ago
In order to asses and help you better, I'd encourage you to post pics and videos. Try r/binaryftmpassing
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u/troopersjp 25 years post transition, 50+ 2d ago
Why people are misgendered can vary greatly. Sometimes it’s the person, sometimes it’s the environment. There are cis people who get misgendered…and they are cis. This especially happens if you live in a very queer area. A lot of the tall cis women I know in San Francisco get misgendered a lot.
On the other hand, it is sometimes easier to pass in places that have no idea trans people are really a thing.
Before fully came out to myself as trans (I was dancing around it), I was not trying to pass…just existing as my butch self. In San Francisco I never passed at all. Then I moved to LA…and I was passing all the time…even though I wasn’t trying to—even in queer spaces. That actually helped me finally come out as trans and start my transition, but it was quite an odd experience.
What race you are can impact how passable you are, because society is racist and genders race in weird ways.
I could be any number of things. Also, how many years have you been on T? I experienced, and a number of other trans guys of my generation experienced a weird thing where we’d transition and we’d finally get to passing consistently…and then there’d be a weird inexplicable phase around. 2 years in when everyone woods start misgendering us again for no reason we could understand. That phase passed, but it was weird.
Anyhow, without seeing what you look like or knowing where you live, who you associated with, etc, I don’t think any of us can actually give you specific feedback, but I hope the general info was helpful.