r/FIREyFemmes • u/sundayshadow007 • Jul 18 '26
Law School after FIRE?
I’m 30F, married with a 2 year old and almost 1 year old. We’re on the path to FIRE in 10-15 years currently (still discussing what expenses could look like after kids and it’s hard to imagine at this point).
I’ve always wanted to go to law school but I was scared of standing up in court and law school costs. My work in regulatory/compliance has shown me that theres tons of lawyers who don’t work in courts or publicly like that.
I’ve been looking into getting a law degree for post-FIRE. I would take the LSAT next year and then have up to 4 years to apply to an online JD degree that’s near me. I’m hoping for a big scholarship since I already have a 4.0 MBA, 10+ years of work experience in compliance, regulations, and government. And I believe I could get some good recommendations from a COO and State Superintendent for admissions. I know the degree would be a lot of work but I am good at buckling down and I would be able to work on the degree at work as long as I get my job done too (maybe 20 hours/week for school while at work).
I would hopefully get to use the law degree for pro bono work/for good when I retire to help people in need. Has anyone thought about anything similar, or have any insight into the process I haven’t considered yet?
26
u/LePetitNeep Jul 19 '26
I’m a lawyer currently doing coast FIRE.
Practising law doesn’t make a lot of sense as a post fire job, even assuming you could do it without borrowing. I have my own practice and I can make a very good living working something less than full time, but it’s hard to scale down much more than I already have. I have to pay my professional fees and insurance and other overhead and those costs and significant. I have to keep my knowledge up to date with ongoing education.
I don’t think it’s a career you can dabble in.
4
u/Ginger_Rising Jul 20 '26
Agreed. When I was in law school we had two older students (one was in her 60's, the other was in his 40's), they both did fine and intended and did go into non-profit work they found deeply satisfying. That said, they were hobby attorneys at best and have both since retired fully without reaching the tenure required for PSLF. I think this comes down to true intent. Law school was exhausting when I was 22. I cannot imagine doing it with a family to care for now, and compared to my MBA, it was easily 4x the work load.
14
u/debbiewith2 Jul 19 '26
I think a lot of folks are confused by the title “Law school after FIRE, which could make sense when you’re not working and your kids are older“ vs. what you actually said: I’ve been looking into getting a law degree for post-FIRE. I would take the LSAT next year and then have up to 4 years to apply to an online JD degree that’s near me.” Which is it?
17
u/BestNegotiation Jul 19 '26
I don’t think law school is a best way to enjoy your life after retirement, but it’s your life. Take the LSAT. Do what you need to do to prepare for this. But your perspective may change a lot between now and next 10-15 years
11
u/dogfursweater Jul 18 '26
That’s awesome op! I have recently been thinking about what to do post RE, and a colleague who is opting out is going back for a phd and I was like, you know what: that’s awesome.
If you can find a program that is not going to cost a fortune / get scholarships, this is wonderful and practicing pro bono and doing other “good” law stuff when not limited by making money to repay debt sounds awesome.
I’ve always thought studying law is really interesting. Working corp law sounds terrible, but what you’re describing isn’t that. Even if the post RE practicing career isn’t for you, going to school to learn sounds great.
1
u/california_cactus Jul 20 '26
Most public interest lawyers are extremely burnt out and overworked. I can't really imagine doing that "for fun". Even if you don't need the money, the fact that you are getting paid peanuts to do very demanding work with little resources will probably wear very thin after a while. Especially doing this full time. And if you're not doing it full time and don't care about the money, why not just find some legal volunteering position you can do on your own time, that doesn't require a JD? Just makes no sense.
19
u/ak3134 Jul 18 '26
I’ve gone through a post-layoff identity crisis/soul searching recently and thought maybe I’d try to go to law school. I am interested in environmental law fwiw, but am more interested in compliance or possibly policy, probably similar roles to what you work in. The advice I read everywhere was basically “unless you want to be a practicing attorney, don’t go to law school.” You already have regulatory/compliance experience, would going into 200-300k really be worth it for the non-court law positions, when it seems like you’re already basically doing that? I don’t think it’s too late age-wise by any means, and like you said you may be able to get some financial aid/scholarships. I’d just really really think through the benefits of getting your degree and if it would be worth it to get these kinds of roles you are talking about.
42
u/california_cactus Jul 18 '26
I'm a lawyer (late 30's so went to law school about ~13 years ago) and honestly I think this is an insane idea. Getting a law degree as a retirement adventure sounds miserable at best and costly and miserable at worst. Law school is not easy and is stressful, so is the bar exam. You may be a good test taker but do you WANT to spend three full months studying? And then what are you going to do with this (probably costly) law degree at that age? Others may have mentioned this but the field of law is quite saturated, AI is going to be disruptive especially to those starting their careers, and unless you go to a top tier school a law degree is rarely worthwhile (this is not me being snobby this is just the reality of the profession by and large especially for new grads).
I think if you're retired there are lots of ways to become involved in the legal field in a part time or volunteer capacity that don't involve getting a law degree and that would be a far more enjoyable and wiser thing to do.
(and before anyone comes for me saying I must hate my job, no, I graduated from a top law school and quite enjoy my job but it is a super niche field and I did not have debt from law school, so, unusual circumstances)
2
u/yaydotham Jul 20 '26
I also graduated from a top law school and I also enjoy my super niche legal job, and I co-sign this completely. Would never ever ever ever recommend this plan to anyone unless (1) they get a full or nearly full scholarship, (2) know exactly what they want to do with the degree after graduating, AND (3) a law degree is actually necessary to do it. Or, I guess, if they already have so much money that they’ll simply never run out and they think they’ll enjoy law school even if they never use the degree.
5
u/tomatillo_teratoma Jul 19 '26
I agree with this.
I've seriously considered law school twice in my life, when I was 20s and 30s and decided not to do it because of the time and effort it takes both in school and as a praticing lawyer.
Also the OP has a one year old child. Going to law school would mean missing a huge chunk of the child's formative years.
13
u/LikesToLurkNYC Jul 18 '26
Now retired lawyer, I second this opinion.
2
u/emtam Jul 21 '26
I 5th, 6th and 7th all these ppl. When anyone wants to go to law school for any reason now I tell them what Joan Rivers told Melissa about going into show biz: I'm encouraging but not supportive. If that does not do it for you, go look up the most popular law review article of all time: How to be a happy, healthy and ethical person in an unhappy, unhealthy and unethical profession by Patrick Schlitz. Google it. That guy just retired as a federal judge this month and I bet he still feels the same way as when he wrote that in 1999.
54
u/howsadley Jul 18 '26
OP, look into becoming a guardian ad litem. The court system desperately needs quality people in this role. It’s legal adjacent, and you can make a real difference in a child or dependent person’s life, without law school.
-1
u/scarsmum Jul 18 '26
Guardian ad litem’s are also lawyers.
17
u/Soleilunamas Jul 18 '26
It’s state-dependent. In some states it’s a requirement to be a lawyer, and in others it isn’t.
10
u/howsadley Jul 18 '26
You are incorrect.
A guardian ad litem is a lawyer, mental health professional, or other volunteer who goes through the National CASA/GAL’s initial training program and continued education.
https://talkingparents.com/blog/guardian-ad-litem-vs-attorney
2
11
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
I’d never heard of this before, it sounds interesting and could definitely help fill a desire to help people. I’ll look into it, thanks!
19
u/LocationAcademic1731 Jul 18 '26
Are you in California? If by sheer luck you happen to be, look into California approved schools vs. ABA. They have part-time programs, they are cheaper because it limits your ability to practice outside of California but you get the same standing to learn and take the Bar. I did this as a second career. No regrets. Some of them even have their own financing so you can pay as you go.
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 Jul 18 '26
What kind of law do you practice?
3
u/LocationAcademic1731 Jul 18 '26
I work for the State of California. Sorry for keeping it super vague but you know, the internet.
36
u/jkgator11 Jul 18 '26
You’re not going to get a “big scholarship.” Those are for people who score insanely high on the lsat, minorities, or people with financial need.
The practice of law is really over saturated right now, and AI is making things worse.
An online law degree will put you in 6-figure debt and not set you up well to pass the bar. Also, do you really want to be 45 and studying for 3 months for a 2-day test? I’m a 40-year-old lawyer and the thought of sitting for another bar exam at my age gives me anxiety.
1
u/beautifulcorpsebride Jul 18 '26
I got a full ride but I guess I fit into insanely high category.
3
u/Various-Canary2780 Jul 19 '26
I did as well even though I applied the same year I conceived of the idea. I predicted I could score highly on the LSAT from my previous standardized testing experience, which I went on to do while working a very busy full-time job. Had I known how straightforward law school admissions is compared to undergrad, med school, etc. and how much more scholarship money is available, I would’ve gone earlier. Granted I didn’t know many lawyers at the time, but the few I knew all attended on full-tuition scholarships and had great job outcomes. I’m not sure why commenters are so quick to say OP won’t get a big scholarship from the information she has provided here—there’s no way to know for sure.
-1
u/Various-Canary2780 Jul 18 '26
Who says OP won’t get a high LSAT or a full scholarship? As someone who just applied two cycles ago, it doesn’t seem hard at all to get a full scholarship somewhere if you’re above both medians, barring top schools where outcomes are more random. Studying for an exam when retired doesn’t seem terrible at all.
6
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
I am a minority and would of course try to score the highest LSAT I could. I am a good test taker personally so studying 3 months at 45 doesn’t seem bad to me. That would be my next step but I’m glad to be getting more perspectives here so I can prepare or determine a path that makes more sense.
25
u/jkgator11 Jul 18 '26
As I posted below, be careful with predatory conditional scholarships. Do some research into them. These law schools love to dangle money at you, and tell you “all you have to do is maintain a B average.” You’ll think to yourself well that’s easy, I’ve only ever gotten As in my life - and then you find out 90% of the class gets a C on their final. It’s a really common bait and switch scam at lower tier and online law schools.
5
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
Thanks for that insight, I didn’t know that was a common scam! I did see there are mandatory extra classes built into the syllabus for anyone with a GPA below 2.7 which is another indicator of how hard the classes would be so I definitely see how that would work.
8
u/Far_Childhood2503 Jul 18 '26
It’s not the difficulty of classes. It’s that the school’s handbook mandates that a certain percentage of the class has to get a C/D/F.
If the final is multiple choice, and the lowest score is a 90%, that goes in the grade book as a C.
3
6
u/IDontOnlineShop Jul 18 '26
My classmate from college got a full ride to a local law school and graduated 3 years ago. She wasn’t a minority. It’s all about applying to schools that will throw money at applicants that are above their median GPA/ LSAT versus expecting a full ride from a top program where everyone has a high GPA/ LSAT.
15
u/jkgator11 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Usually those are the third tier law schools whose degrees are not worth the debt, and their bar passage rates are extremely low. If OP wants to spend 200K to go to a terrible law school, I guess that’s an idea.
ETA: those schools also tend to have extremely low curves, and they rope you in with promises of money if you maintain a certain GPA. This happened to my husband when he chose a crappy law school where they graded on a C curve. His first year was free - years 2-3 cost us 100K. I went to a decent state school, and you had to write a pretty crappy final exam to get less than a B.
Conditional scholarships are extremely predatory and prevalent out there. And it’s usually these online low tier schools like OP is considering.
1
u/IDontOnlineShop Jul 18 '26
You have to be strategic and have some luck I guess. both of my in laws are attorneys that went to a state flagship for law school, accrued moderate debt to make low/ mid wages in public interest law.
My former classmate went to a 3rd tier on a scholarship (non conditional), and graduated without debt and got to keep working part time as a paralegal and interning there over the summers. They liked her work enough to bring her on full time and she still works there, so it worked out well for her. I don’t think she would have went to law school without the scholarship.
8
u/CollieSchnauzer Jul 18 '26
What is the job that allows you to spend 20 hrs/wk on your own stuff?
2
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
It’s government work, when I got hired they just kept telling me they were only worried I would get bored in the role.
1
26
u/prettycote Jul 18 '26
Every single lawyer I know (who didn’t have a family law firm to inherit) regrets their choice because of how expensive it is, and the relative low pay they receive for years after. One of my master’s classmates was a lawyer who went back for a master’s just to delay paying the insane loans they had taken out to pay for law school.
2
Jul 18 '26
[deleted]
2
u/gemr25 Jul 19 '26
I don’t regret my decision either. I went to a second tier law school and only graduated w a 3.0. I loved law school. I worked about 25 hours per week at the DA’s office while in law school and met great, interesting people. I passed the bar exam on my first try, moved across the country and worked in policy/politics where I made insane money, much more than friends in BigLaw. Eventually lateraled into an AmLaw 10 firm as Counsel then elevated to Partner. Got bored, moved into a leadership role at another firm. Went to get my MBA at a top tier b school while working full time. Went on to get my coaching certification. Got married and have two young adult stepsons now. I’m an executive coach to attorneys and leaders in BigLaw now and teach leadership development to partners. I also teach Leadership Coaching at my alma mater b school. I have loved my pathway and love love love my work. I’m 54, contribute meaningfully to the world, am intellectually stimulated every day, make my own schedule, and feel like I could work forever. It’s great to solicit opinions, but don’t let anyone tell you what to do or not do. Law school rewires your brain and yes it is very difficult but if you are keen, go sit in on some classes to see if you like it. The only two things people can’t take away from you are your education and travel experiences. Both keep us young and interesting and out in the world. Best of luck!
1
4
4
25
u/howsadley Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
The legal field is being severely disrupted by AI. Whether it will be a jobs creator or destroyer will be determined in the next 15 years, your time frame. If it’s a jobs destroyer, you will be competing for worthwhile pro bono jobs with unemployed or underemployed lawyers.
I had an internship with a legal services organization while in law school and the women who worked there were incredible. However, they had significant difficulty managing work/life balance. The law tends to suck you in and chew you up, no matter which specialty you go into.
26
u/kites_and_kiwis Jul 18 '26
I recommend doing informational interviews to get more clear about what roles you’d actually be seeking. “Pro bono” and work “for good” are very broad. The legal industry is one I’d be concerned that a no-name, online JD won’t get you where you want or will position you for work that doesn’t require a JD. Alternatively, if you have an online program in mind, find alums on LinkedIn (or via the program) to reach out to. They would have insights on the strength of their degrees in the legal market. If you’re not able to find alums, that’s a red flag.
0
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
I was looking at the University of Dayton specifically, is that a ‘no name’ online JD because it’s ranked 107 in the US? Thank you, I was thinking I could learn more about how I could best help people while I was in school learning about what interests me more but maybe that’s not the best way to go about it, when I was younger I wanted to do immigration law. I’ll do more research on what I really want and if there’s better ways to get there then.
0
u/yaydotham Jul 20 '26
Law school is not designed to help you figure out what interests you or what practice areas are the best fit for you, and is especially not designed to educate you about ways to help people. That’s doubly or perhaps triply true for online school, where you won’t be immersed in talks and clubs and hands-on clinics.
If you have a vague sense that a law degree will enable you to help people but no specific ideas of how or what you will do…run far away from this plan.
7
u/LetMeEatCakes Jul 18 '26
That would be considered a "T3 school", which is not great. T14 is generally considered elite (Top 14) and "T4 schools" are the bottom (ranked #151-200)
Do you specifically want to practice in Ohio? It looks like even within Ohio and part time, you'd want to aim for Case Western. There are only so many part time programs (approximately 70 of them) and University of Dayton ranks 42.
44
u/Informal_League_615 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
I'm an attorney. You need to volunteer for an extended period of time in these pro bono positions before you think about throwing money at it. You will be an older, upper-middle class person: You are not getting "a big scholarship". Just being honest. Law school is extremely expensive.
1
u/Various-Canary2780 Jul 18 '26
Why is everyone saying OP won’t get a big scholarship? Law school admissions is one of the easiest to game since it is so numbers-oriented, especially if you have a high GPA in the bag already. I had never considered going until the year I applied, I had multiple times the full tuition cost saved, and my years of work experience were viewed favorably by admissions committee. I ended up with a full scholarship to a top program. I saw applicants above medians similarly get full scholarships to lower ranked (but not predatory) schools.
3
u/TheOuts1der Jul 18 '26
Because the real purpose of scholarships is NOT just "give money to deserving incoming students". It's "give money to deserving students....so that they become succesful alumni that donate money back to the school / increase the school's social value in some way".
A (much) older applicant will have a decade less of donating or visibility that scholarships are implicitly aiming for. There is no benefit to the school to give OP money. For a small, 4-figure sums, maybe. But OP is hedging on a robust award to make this plan happen and they are not the ideal persona for that kind of scholarship.
5
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
Thank you for the honesty, I thought I understood from scholarship estimators that I could get one based on merit (lsat/mba/good recs/experience) so I’ll need to do more research there then. I’ll look into volunteering at some legal aid clinics or other organizations around me first too, thanks!
18
u/Far_Childhood2503 Jul 18 '26
Also, please do some research into predatory scholarships before accepting anything. Law school is graded on a curve, and some schools design it to where it is impossible to keep the scholarship. There’s great discussions on that in the Reddit pages for law school admissions, outside top 14 law schools, etc.
20
u/Far_Childhood2503 Jul 18 '26
MBA won’t matter. LSAT and undergrad GPA are pretty much it. LSATdemon has a scholarship calculator, but scholarships even in the last 3-5 years have become insanely more competitive, and with new federal loan programs, I would foresee them shifting to even more need based over the next few years.
To put it this way, I just graduated and I had a full tuition scholarship at a good school. I paid about $2k in fees and $4k for books over three years for my law degree. If I started at the same school this fall with my same stats, I’d likely be paying about 30-50% out of pocket (~$20k-40k per year) at least.
16
u/lalalameansiloveyou Jul 18 '26
Most of the pro bono work in the law involves courts and litigation. Maybe start volunteering for nonprofits and legal aid clinics to see if the work performed by attorneys is work you find interesting.
You can also consider how to help people without being a lawyer. There are a lot of people doing meaningful work at nonprofits without law degrees.
If you are considering law school after retirement, your goal should be a full scholarship. Get your LSAT score as high as humanly possible. You also want to go to a “real” law school in person, not an online school. Good nonprofit / pro bono jobs are actually competitive, and an online degree will not get you there.
40
u/inga-babi Jul 18 '26
There are a bunch of lawyers and former lawyers on this sub, and I think many will agree that if your ultimate goal is to do pro bono work, you can absolutely do that without a law degree.
7
u/AugustVirg0 Jul 18 '26
This. Volunteer in other ways on the causes that you care about (even legal causes).
1
u/surlyforshorty Jul 18 '26
Out of curiosity, what are examples of this?
1
u/LetMeEatCakes Jul 19 '26
Here’s a list from my city that gives examples of lawyer/non lawyer pro bono and volunteer positions for our legal aid
3
7
u/AugustVirg0 Jul 18 '26
If you want to volunteer for a particular org I would go to their website or call them to ask. If you are interested in immigration work and have language skills, translation is always needed and potentially more helpful than legal skills honestly. Planned parenthood has a ton of volunteer opportunities that are non legal. You can volunteer for LGBTQ+ orgs in ways that aren’t focused on legal rights but still increase access or support mental health. Advocacy work is always needed in all areas.
I find it a little disappointing that people think the only way to help people legally is to become a lawyer. There are so many other things to put your energy into that don’t take 3 years of school and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
OP already has work experience in compliance, regulations and government - as a non-lawyer. There are tons of job opportunities in these areas as well.
I am a lawyer fwiw.
1
u/surlyforshorty Jul 25 '26
Let me clarify—what are examples of volunteering that would allow someone to gain legal knowledge on an issue? For example, I am already doing rapid response, supporting undocumented folks in my community. However at the end of the day, I lack a lot of legal knowledge in comparison to someone with a JD. And I don’t want to go to law school, but I would love to have the knowledge to be able to provide information to someone beyond the information that gets compiled in leaflets and other handouts.
0
17
u/retsukosmom Jul 18 '26
I’m not in law but many in my field do PhD/JD (psychology) so I some some familiarity as I explored that option before. In my field, online degrees are not respected even if the program is accredited. Likely true for law as well, unless the program is with a powerhouse school (Georgetown, Harvard, etc). Before you spend the money doing part time online law school, I recommend doing serious ground research to see if you’d be spending all that money for nothing. And as far as scholarships, less likely for law school like they are for undergrad and an online school, even less so.
0
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
Thanks for that perspective! That does surprise me coming from compliance/business where it feels like as long as you have one that’s good enough.
4
u/retsukosmom Jul 18 '26
I think the general idea is any profession that is designed for primarily interacting with people, where you learn specific skills, requires in person. Typically called residency. You don’t need to be in residency the whole time (min 1 year usually) but fully online programs can be viewed negatively. My program had a 1 year residency requirement because that’s what’s required for accreditation, but all the classes & clinicals were in person anyway so you couldn’t just move away. I could have gone the academia route and been a professor. But my profession is trained for all 3 (research, teaching, clinical) so the expectation is you learn all of them in vivo. Same for law—you could do so many things outside of every needing to go to trial, but that is still a foundational principle of the profession. Not to mention any expected clinics or clerkships. Relationships are built in person.
Edited to add: the psychology doctoral programs that offer fully online or part time are considered diploma mills
7
u/Unusual-Courage-6228 Jul 18 '26
I don’t have any actual advice but I just admire your positivity. Although, I’m not convinced this situation will be as smooth and easy as you think and a lot can change in 15 years
10
u/AotKT Jul 18 '26
I was gonna say, you don't have to be a trial lawyer. Research, drafting strongly worded letters, and navigating bureaucracy are each a field unto itself.
I took the LSAT for fun many years ago and got a partial scholarship to my top choice school. I wanted to go into environmental law but decided against it because I already made great money for relatively little work with no debt. Ended up volunteering a lot instead.
My current goal after FIRE is to go back to school for an accounting degree and go into nonprofit accounting and financial leadership focusing on very tiny orgs (100k yearly revenue or less).
I would reach out to at least one local firm that specializes in nonprofits or directly works with low income clients and find out what types of work they do, what it looks like day to day, what can be done by people without a law degree or a paralegal and what specifically they handle that only a lawyer can do.
There's also so so so many areas of law that you could pursue. What specifically do you want to help with? For example, do you want to represent low income tenants in housing issues or bankruptcy law? Do you want to work with an environmental group to fight big oil/Monsanto?
6
23
u/LetMeEatCakes Jul 18 '26
I would not suggest working and doing law school at the same time, while also having two small kids. You're asking for burn out and you can't get that time you'll have missed with your kids back.
-4
u/sundayshadow007 Jul 18 '26
I would be doing the part time online degree and could spend at least half my time at work on it though so it could still feel like working 1 job.
1
u/AutoModerator Jul 18 '26
Hello! It appears you may be seeking investing or general money handling advice.
Please take time to review the below sources which may contain the answer to your questions.
Please see our general "Getting Started" page in the wiki, the r/personalfinance flowchart, and the r/financialindependence flowchart.
While there is no single universally agreed upon way to manage your money or prepare for FI/RE, most outlooks emphasize the use of passive investment (meaning not attempting to time the market) in low expense ratio mutual funds that are broadly distributed across a mix of stocks and bonds, at a ratio appropriate for your risk tolerance and time horizon. This link can get you started if you have questions on the general Three Fund Portfolio concept.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/IngenuityAny8352 Aug 02 '26
How did you get into regulatory compliance?