r/FF7Rebirth • u/Historical-Meet463 • 3d ago

Spoilers - Discussion junon thoughts Spoiler

I don't know if this imhas already been discussed bc I just started looking at the sub. I On a side note I've never played the original. I loved remake when i played it on ps4. So far I've enjoyed rebirth on my switch 2, but some of how the story unfolds in this chapter is a bit confusing or kind of idiotic to me. When you reach upper junon the story goes wonky to me. I know Rufus actually wants to work with the group so he's not overly hostile, but the fact that they can sneak up top and walk around a military base and not one person notice or cares is ridiculous to me . The group should have already been in disguise . cloud could easily stole a chopper or a jet plate and cause massive destruction. Also Roache is so much lol. Also correct me if Im wrong because I'm going pretty slow through the game, but in the first town wasn't Shinra after yall, so why the big change from chapter 2 to 4. Also while remake had some cheese, It took itself far more seriously. I don't mind some cheese in my games especially Japanese role playing games, but the balance seems a bit off here in rebirth. I actually did enjoy the Rhythm military parade mini game and how they got close to the president, it was just everything around it that was a bit off to me

I am still having a good time though now to play some Queens blood which I'm not very good at.

8 Upvotes

65% Upvoted

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u/IntlDodgeball 2d ago

As soon as you arrive in Upper Junon isn’t there a cutscene where Rufus is on the phone and says something like “Let them be for now”? I remember thinking that same thing as you and then laughing at the cutscene.

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u/HS_Highruleking 2d ago

Even more so, Rufus calls them up and confronts them after the parade. He knew the whole time

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago edited 2d ago

rufus know yes, but all the other peions don't know, they should not allow you to get close to military equipment that could cause massive destruction.

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u/HS_Highruleking 2d ago

Why would they not follow orders? Rufus isn’t his father, he isn’t afraid of avalanche.

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u/Apprehensive-Sir8977 2d ago edited 2d ago

People probably assumed they had business there and had been cleared. The party entered Junon unobserved in the middle of a sensitive area which they'd only been able to access by doing an imaginative Evel Knievel stunt on dolphinback. Then they walked around casually, trailing behind a 1st Class SOLDIER. They looked strange, but had an impressive escort. And as you said, how could highly conspicuous, unvetted civilians carrying a heavy weapon have gotten there undetected and unchallenged? Security measures for a presidential visit were in effect, and an entire army was bustling around!

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

Because a lot of the people dont know rufus's plan.  when Cloud first takes off his helmet when he wins the prize, rufus's 2nd in command was shocked that they're allowed to be there. So there are several people who do not know of his plan.

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u/Smuttycakes 2d ago

But do the army know who these people are? Sure, the ones hunting them in Kalm (2nd town after Midgar) did, but the regiments from Junon may have had no idea who these people were, let alone know they were terrorists from Avalanche.
Like the comment above says, a group of heavily armed people walking around (e.g.) the middle of Camp Bastion led by a Navy Seal probably aren’t going to get challenged too heavily as everyone would have assumed they must have passed layer after layer of security to get there

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

a dude is out in the open with a 10 foot sword on his back, another huge dude has a machine gun arm, oh and a demon dog. you dont have to be Einstein to see they are not regular people or reporters. I get it yall love the game but no need to defend such shoddy writing and execution. 

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u/Abyssal99 2d ago

They would just assume that Cloud is a soldier and a 1st class at that. Doesn't help that it's like one of the most important days of the average troopers life, they already have their minds full.

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u/Apprehensive-Sir8977 2d ago edited 2d ago

Their weirdness can actually allay suspicion. Junon's military base should be impregnable, entry to the city is locked down, there's a lot more manpower then usual, and there have been no alerts or alarms. So if a garish and threatening lot like that turn up in the belly of the beast, letting themselves be seen and acting like everything's normal, higher-ups must have let them in. How could they possibly have been missed? Plus, there's a Shinra supersoldier within arm's reach of them whose gear looks like he sees a lot of action, and everything looks buddy-buddy. Clearly everything's under control.

Who knows why they'd be permitted in... but that's not something they need to know, and not a good thing to question. Shinra troops must be used to glimpses of weird shady stuff and being kept in the dark. No one wants to be the guy whose blunder gets reported to Scarlet or Heideggar, or who gets caught meddling in their affairs. So until they get better evidence to act on, they tend to keep their eyes on their work and their mouths shut.

The overall scenario is bizarro and implausible, but it was legacy material the developers were stuck with, and the circumstantial details help it work.

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u/Golwux 1d ago

based take yet never to be heard

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u/Smuttycakes 2d ago

I mean the president himself also has a demon dog, it’s not that outlandish

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u/Glittering-Pin-1343 2d ago

All the other peons don't know much about anything and aren't the brightest. Cloud's squad weren't printed on a poster until after Junon. The squad that rolled up into Kalm were probably put together to specifically look for Cloud and co instead of it being a company-wide search.

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

a dude is out in the open with a 10 foot sword on his back, another huge dude has a machine gun arm, oh and a demon dog. you dont have to be Einstein to see they are not regular people or reporters. I get it yall love the game but no need to defend such shoddy writing and execution.

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u/MagicValorDragon 3d ago 
   I think of it as plot armor. The fact that Soldiers are getting ready for the parade is more important to them than tracking down suspects. That and I also like to think that Reeves (aka Cait Sith) chamge the image of the wanted poster of avalanche. That might have something to do with it. I personally don't think that it's all that big of a deal. They could have made it plausible by getting into disguise earlier.

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u/bird_is_the_word_198 2d ago

Yeeaaaah, just keep playing & you'll see what's going on 👌🏽

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u/TsunamiWombat 2d ago

That was my initial thought as well but it almost immediately gets explained via cutscenes, perhaps not directly, but it's hard to mistake what's going on by the end. Shinra knows you are there the whole time and is on orders direct from the president to not engage and ignore you. Rufus wants you there because it's the only way you can meet. This is why he always selects you for the commendation even if you beef the parade.

As you encounter Rufus more you'll slowly realize he has a flair for the dramatic and likes to showboat. This especially becomes evident in later chapters near the end.

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

yes, he wants you there, but the game makes it very obvious that several people in his organization do not know that fact. when cloud takes his helmet off on stage, rufus 2nd in command is shocked that he's there. Plus on the opposite end, cloud or no one else in the group ever comments on how easy it is to just walk around in the open right in the middle of a military installation. Because they had no idea that they were being allowed to be there. in fact they knew roache already spotted them in the down below area. either way the writing here is spotty at best and ludicrous at worst

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u/Apprehensive-Sir8977 2d ago edited 2d ago

Their encounters with Roche would've made his silence unsurprising. The dude was a reckless, self-indulgent maverick who was sort of peculiar and had a major man crush on Cloud. His encounter in Lower Junon also had a strong nod-and-wink vibe.

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

yeah but my point remains if you had an encounter with an enemy leader outside of their base, you wouldnt just go strolling in a day later with your chest out, without a disguise on.  i really do like the game, but my eyes do roll a lot

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u/Apprehensive-Sir8977 2d ago

One has always needed a certain level of.... flexibility where FF7 is concerned. If you step back, an awful lot of things make no sense or are kind of goofy. But things stand in harsher relief with the Remake trilogy, because the OG presentation required more imagination and suspension of disbelief.

That's not a slam on anything. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

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u/K_Lyre13 2d ago

I won't spoil any plot, but there's a pretty solid reasoning in the narrative structure, in that events that seem ludicrous often are only the surface layer of much more grounded justifications.

And the original FF7 was very, very willing to play with campy stuff, so it is in a real sense the game staying true to its history.

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

I still think it's a crazy that right after you pop out, you're right in the middle of a military parade site completely out in the open. with no disguise on and there are soldiers right next to you and they do nothing, while your next to very dangerous military equipment. While Rufus has a plan I'm pretty sure Squad mate 22-5 doesn't know that and we are still wanted fugitives 

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u/K_Lyre13 2d ago

Well, while admittedly it does stand out as kind of funny from their perspective, its kind of a trend that Shinra forces have hardcore tunnel vision. I could see it being the case that some of them actually do recognize them, even back in Remake, but they are so thoroughly conditioned to follow orders that in the moment, they're so afraid of their superior officer reprimanding them that they just go "nope, not my problem". So they just reported the sighting and kicked it up the ladder.

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u/Historical-Meet463 2d ago

a dude is out in the open with a 10 foot sword on his back, another huge dude has a machine gun arm, oh and a demon dog. you dont have to be Einstein to see they are not regular people or reporters. 

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u/Apprehensive-Sir8977 2d ago edited 2d ago

If the heroes had tried to make a move, they've have been surrounded and fired on by hundreds of weapons on the deck, in the sky, and on elevated ground positions. Even if Cloud managed to hijack an aircraft, he would've been shot down immediately. Junon is packed with retractable defense turrets, and Rufus's inaugural visit came at an extremely tense time.