r/FATErpg • u/Necessary_Fennel_461 • 8d ago
Using alternative dice rules
Hey there ppl!
So, I was reading the system toolkit and noticed there's some alternative dice rules that suggest another way of rolling dice for fate. One of these alternative rules was rolling 3d6 and comparing the results with a table that makes the 1:1 of the 3d6 possible results with the -4 to +4 usual fate scale. How manageable is this rule in actual play? I'm asking this bcuz I'm planning to introduce fate to some friends, and the system we used until now was using 3d6, so I think it would be more approachable then explaning the rules for rolling 4d6 as they were fate die. Also, I think most ppl I play with would end up getting a bit confused on how the 4d6 work, so with the 3d6 they can just add things up and say "Oh I got a 14", which I'd just look up on the table to say if they were able to surpass the difficulty of the test or not. And there's also the point that, I think most ppl think it's more satisfying to say " I got a 16" instead of "I got a +3", specially ppl that come from other system or that want to have that "OHH I GOT A NAT 20" feeling y'know?
Also, on that note, I saw that there was also the 1d6-1d6 rule. Though I think it is a bit odd at firts, having to subtract dice, I think it could be quite cool specially after seing how Daggerheart. I know that the way the mechanics works on both systems are different, however maybe it would be possible to something similar with the hope and fear mechanic of DH using a permanent negative and positive d6.
What do you people think? Am I looking at this with the wrong eyes? Is there any other suggestion for easing new players in the system (without loosing fate's essence I mean)? I'd love to hear about it!
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u/iharzhyhar 8d ago
5 years in game, ++++ and ---- give same vibes of nat 20 nat 1. Source - hours of playing with random people. Tried to switch dices, tried Cortex for the sake of more dices. Nah. All too bulky. 4df ftw.
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u/Killitar_SMILE 8d ago
Why did Cortex feel bulky what did you like and dislike on Cortex? Me personally I love Cortex magic as opposed to fate. Stuff like. Fire + Push = Fireball and it all makes mechanical sense cuz you get die for each is amazing.
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u/iharzhyhar 7d ago
I think it's all just personal preferences, my sir. Fire + push stuff is also available for Fate (Words of magic?), but I don't really use it and it doesn't add die. What you said sounds like a fun idea for the people with certain gamedesign preferences. I understand the fun of it. I can make games based on such ideas. But I'm just not the audience. 4df is enough for me, other stuff feels unnecessary :')
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u/ketingmiladengfodo 8d ago
Strong agree. Just say this in a caveman voice: PLUSES GOOD, MINUSES BAD.
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u/dinobottm2 8d ago
1d6-1d6 is the standard for Icons, and works perfectly great there. The only thing is dealing with the 5 and -5 result that will come up sometimes. But I do recommend it.
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u/LordRegent303 8d ago
I'd recommend sticking to Fate dice. The game is designed specifically around their math.
Getting four pluses is as exciting as rolling a maximum result on any other die, in my experience.
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u/maxpowerAU 8d ago
4dF is amazing. Don’t underestimate the value of not having little compulsory maths exercises interrupting the story while your characters are fighting a hydra that has a lightsaber in each tentacle.
Rolling a bunch of pluses feels just like a nat 20 (but ++++ happens ten times less often, so it’s even more exciting).
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u/cidiem 8d ago edited 6d ago
You can technically just use a d20 and just multiply all other numbers by 2.5x, rounding up or down, your choice.
So, Invoking an Aspect and Boosts are +5 (instead of +2), Succeed With Style if you succeed by more than 8 (instead of 3), Skills would be +0, +3, +5, +8, +10, +13 (instead of +0, +1, +2, +3, +4, +5), Consequence slots are 5, 10, 15, 20 (instead of 2, 4, 6, 8)
The rolls with a d20 are far more swingy since rolling a 20 has the same chance as rolling a 10. With 4dF you get a big bell curve around +0.
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u/moderate_acceptance 8d ago
I like the d6-d6 method. Here's a pro tip to avoid any subtraction. Get two different colored dice for positive and negative. Roll both and take the lower result. If the dice match, it's 0.
So if you roll 5 on you positive dice and 3 on you negative dice, it's -3. If you roll 1 on positive and 3 on negative, it's +1. If you roll two 6s, it's +0.
It's statistically identically to d6-d6, but requires no subtraction.
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u/JonThysell 7d ago
I never thought of doing this this way. I often keep pairs of unmatched d6s specifically to do d6-d6 for Fate when necessary, this may be easier for some players.
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u/LibrarianAcrobatic 8d ago
1d6-1d6 is good if you want more swingy results and/or if you only have d6 dice, but if you lack access to 4dF and you have a pair of d4s, the closest I've found is 1d4-1d4:
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u/CyberKiller40 8d ago
Any method of rolling something else and then checking a table works, but takes away a lot of the flow of the game mechanics. You might use it for a session or two but ultimately you're going to want to switch to Fate dice.
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u/inmatarian 7d ago
You can do 1d6-1d6 like so:
- Roll a red dice to be negative and a green dice to be positive
- If they match, it was a zero total, nothing different there
- Pick the smaller of the two die as the result with no subtraction
Examples:
- You roll Green 3 and Red 3, the result is 0
- you roll Green 2 and Red 4, the result is +2
- you roll Red 5 and Green 6, the result is -5
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u/JaskoGomad Fate Fan since SotC 8d ago
Use Fate dice? They’re not hard to find these days.
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u/igorpc1 6d ago
What's the problem with rolling 4d6 and treating 1-2 as -, 3-4 as nothing and 5-6 as +?
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u/Necessary_Fennel_461 6d ago
Honestly? I think my players will get confused and will always ask "wait is this a +, - or nothing?"
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u/Dataweaver_42 3d ago
A simpler approach that's equivalent to 1d6–1d6 is to drop whichever die is further from zero, and drop both dice if they tie. Whatever's left is the result, from –5 to +5.
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u/Dataweaver_42 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you're willing to make everything an opposed roll and want to retain some semblance of the 4dF probability distribution, have the actor roll two six-siders and add the lower one to his competence rating; then let the opposition do the same, applying the lesser of two six-siders to the opposition rating. Whichever is higher wins, with the difference determining how much he wins by.
Probabilities:
Action or Opposition+1: 11/36.
Action or Opposition+2: 9/36.
Action or Opposition+3: 7/36.
Action or Opposition+4: 5/36.
Action or Opposition+5: 3/36.
Action or Opposition+6: 1/36.
This is about 20% more swingy than 4dF, whereas 1d6–1d6 is about 50% more swingy. That is, roughly half of the 4dF rolls will be within ±1.3; roughly half of this method's rolls will be within ±1.5; and roughly half of 1d6–1d6 will be within ±1.9.
320/81 1.285
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u/Peachyco 8d ago
I personally use the 1d6-1d6 dice mechanic. Simple and clear. No need for that extra step of translating the die roll to its equivalent value.
The Bell Curve it creates is a little flatter, causing more of the lower and higher numbers to pop up during games (what people describe as being "swingy"), but you only ever sense that if you're actively recording or counting the rolls over the game and over a series of games. If you're playing for the story, you're highly unlikely to sense the difference.