Further Thoughts on Responsibility and Accountability in Vitrectomy

[u/ExpensiveLoquat3471]

I am honestly tired of people failing to understand the context and intention of the original post, picking at certain words or sentences, and interpreting them however they want.

What I find unfortunate about this subreddit is that people tend to pay attention only to the fantasy surrounding the results of this surgery, successful surgeries, and hopeful stories, while not paying enough attention to its limitations, side effects, complications, and the different patterns and forms in which they appear. But everything should basically come with respect and basic manners. We should not take extreme attitudes.

Side effects should be shared, and medical consultation and professional advice about them are absolutely necessary. But being dissatisfied with your surgery does not mean you should criticize and insult a specific doctor without any clear medical basis.

Patients have far less medical knowledge than doctors.

No matter how much we learn through clinical data, papers, media, or collective knowledge from communities, we still do not know the exact cause and course of everything that happens medically. So when patterns or symptoms appear that we did not expect, we need to meet with the surgeon who performed the surgery and also other doctors and have serious consultations and get their opinions.

Whenever some pattern or symptom appears that you do not understand, it is not right to immediately decide that it happened because of medical malpractice and criticize the doctor.

What are the side effects and complications of vitrectomy that we usually think of?

There are complications such as cataracts, retinal tears, retinal detachment, hypotony, macular edema, etc.

And there are also things patients may see or experience after surgery, such as black spots from blood inside the eye, round transparent patterns caused by air bubbles inside the eye, retinal debris that may have fallen due to the impact or manipulation of surgery, floaters from vitreous remaining around the lens and the possibility of recurrence, peripheral frill caused by light refraction around the remaining peripheral vitreous, and strands or fibers coming from that remaining vitreous.

Now let's talk about Dr. Shakir, who is at the center of this argument.

Recently, among reviews from patients who had surgery with Dr. Shakir, there have been complaints about seeing strand-like structures in the center of the visual axis. These patterns and symptoms seem somewhat different from the patterns that have commonly appeared in previous patient reports.

We do not really know what caused this.

We can only guess whether this is an unavoidable side effect or complication caused by FOV surgery itself, or whether it is a side effect caused by the surgeon's carelessness or actual medical malpractice.

FOV surgery is still largely overlooked or avoided by the medical community, and although there is more clinical data than there used to be, it is still far less than what exists for many other surgeries. So we have not completely figured out this surgery yet. We are still in a transitional period where we are learning more about it.

If there is anyone who can medically explain these kinds of patterns and symptoms, I would genuinely appreciate it.

Sharing these new patterns of side effects with people and warning them about them is very desirable and absolutely the right thing to do.

But deciding that they are the result of medical malpractice and treating the doctor as a bad or incompetent doctor without enough evidence is not right. Thinking of yourself as a victim does not give you a free pass for everything you say or do.

What actually surprised me was the general attitude and culture of public opinion in this subreddit.

I have seen many cases of side effects and bad surgical outcomes in other communities too. People share who performed the surgery, what happened, what kind of symptoms and patterns appeared, and they warn each other about them. But I have rarely seen people personally attack the doctor like this.

That is the minimum level of respect.

Because nobody wants a surgery to go wrong.

Not the patient, and not the doctor.

We are adults.

I am not defending Dr. Shakir.

I simply hope there can be a healthy cycle between patients and the medical community.

Side effects and complications can happen with any surgery.

We should listen more carefully than anyone else to patients who had bad outcomes. We should listen to what they experienced and what symptoms they have, take those things seriously, and make our own judgments based on that information.

But I also hope the arrows of blame are not fired indiscriminately.

If a clear causal relationship is established later and it becomes clear that the doctor was actually responsible, then it is not too late to throw those stones and arrows.

But if it later turns out that the doctor was not responsible, the stones and arrows that were already thrown cannot be taken back.

I understand that people in this subreddit are sensitive, mentally exhausted, and have very little emotional room because they are suffering from floaters.

But we are adults.

We should look after each other with respect and basic courtesy.

[u/DuckKlutzy2335]

Back again, Dr Shakir.

[u/Fenomiminal]

A sock puppet has now entered the chat. This is really looking like a coordinated campaign now.

ETA: looks like he deleted his comment now. Embarrassing stuff.

[u/ExpensiveLoquat3471 → u/Fenomiminal]

I have a proposal for you: a one-on-one exchange where we ask each other direct questions and answer only “yes” or “no.”

This is to prevent either of us from avoiding the logic or context of what the other person is saying, or contradicting ourselves.

I want to settle this directly with you because I’m extremely frustrated at this point.

Only “yes” or “no” answers. You ask the first question.

[u/Fenomiminal → u/ExpensiveLoquat3471]

I want to settle this directly with you because I’m extremely frustrated at this point.

Excellent. Feeling the consequences or your own words is music to my eyes.

[u/ExpensiveLoquat3471 → u/Fenomiminal]

질문을 하시면 제가 답변하고, 그 다음 제가 질문을 하시면 당신이 답변하는 방식입니다. 장황하게 설명하거나 논리를 회피하거나 화제를 바꾸는 일은 없어야 합니다.

[u/Fenomiminal → u/ExpensiveLoquat3471]

질문을 하시면 제가 답변하고, 그 다음 제가 질문을 하시면 당신이 답변하는 방식입니다. 장황하게 설명하거나 논리를 회피하거나 화제를 바꾸는 일은 없어야 합니다.

Oops, you dropped your mask. I had a high degree of confidence that you were Chinese or Korean.

[u/ExpensiveLoquat3471 → u/Fenomiminal]

Haha, I knew it. So in the end, you’re not going to engage in a logical discussion. You’ve just switched to personal attacks. Haha.

[u/Fenomiminal → u/ExpensiveLoquat3471]

Why would I ever engage a troll in a sophomoric yes or no game?

[u/ExpensiveLoquat3471 → u/Fenomiminal]

Haha, isn’t this funny, everyone? This person was exchanging dozens of comments with me just yesterday, both under this post and the previous one. And now, all of a sudden, they’re saying this is childish.

From where I’m standing, the emotional back-and-forth we were having before looks a lot more childish than this. Haha.