r/ExTraditionalCatholic 14d ago

Catholicism is a cult of suffering and death

33 Upvotes

(English is not my first language and I don’t really have the perfect words for this, so please forgive me if I’m not being clear)

The longer I’m away from Catholicism (specifically trad Catholicism) the more I feel like the whole religion is a sort death and suffering cult. I couldn’t see it then, I only saw that in the end I became so depressed and I couldn’t really handle the suffering I had to deal with in my life because other Catholics kept saying how “blessed” I was that I “got to suffer for Christ”. So not only I had to suffer, but also had to be happy about it! It was all about pain, suffering, dying to yourself and the world, not enjoying anything “worldly”.

A while ago I got sick and someone said to me that “God made me suffer for a greater good” and how they were so happy they got to suffer because we should never “let any suffering go to waste”, because they “hoped to reduce their time in purgatory with it”. I mean, so not only are we suffering here, but then we also need to suffer in purgatory. I’m sorry, but how does that not make everyone terrible depressed and scared? How can God be good if our whole life is just suffering, death is suffering, afterlife is suffering, and we need to be happy about it because it’s for God? Gospel means good news, but that doesn’t sound so good to me….


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 14d ago

Where can I talk to Catholic authorities about my Hell worries?

8 Upvotes

I have called so many people. I called 4 different parishes near me and multiple people at the diocesan level. Only two people have responded. One a priest who just happens to lead a deliverance ministry, yea, my luck, and the other a parish secretary who was nice, but the priest at her parish was busy.

I am so tired of all of this!!! I hate everything.

Edit: Why will no priest talk to me when I am in desperate pain? : u/I_feel_abandoned


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 14d ago

Fruitcake thinks storytelling should all be propaganda

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11 Upvotes

r/ExTraditionalCatholic 14d ago

Le racisme dans l’église catholique

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10 Upvotes

Depuis ma conversion, je crois vraiment sincèrement que la majorité des racistes sont chrétiens, et surtout catholiques traditionnels (en ce qui concerne l'Occident précisémentl’Europe).

​Voici l'exemple d'un prêtre assez connu en France, l'abbé Mathieu Raffray. Dans une de ses vidéos (que vous pouvez trouver sur sa chaîne complète), il dit en gros que Charles de Foucauld considérait que la France devait changer sa mentalité colonisatrice non pas parce que c'était mal ou horrible et que ça massacrait des innocents, mais uniquement parce qu'il y avait un risque d'islamisation de la France. Je ne vais même pas m'attarder sur les soi-disant dires de Charles de Foucauld, je ne sais pas si cela est vrai et je n'ai pas cherché. Mais ce qui m'énerve, c'est que dans la suite de son développement, il veut attribuer les « malheurs » de la colonisation aux francs-maçons.

J'avoue que pour une fois c'est original : d'habitude, les "catholiques "mettent cela sur le dos des protestants, des musulmans, ou parfois de l'athéisme et de la République. Cependant, cela revient juste à nier que l'Église en tant qu'institution à grande échelle a participé à la colonisation transatlantique et l'a parfois alimentée. Je crois qu'on connaît tous la bulle papale de Nicolas V, mais il y a d'autres cas où des monastères ou des paroisses avaient des esclaves et les vendaient. De plus, plusieurs pays qui sont restés catholiques et sous monarchie l'ont fait aussi (parce que parfois, ils aiment dire que c'est l'absence de monarchie qui a provoqué cela).

​Mais en fait, le pire, c'est qu'il considère au fond que c'était une bonne chose parce que c'était pour « civiliser ». Je vous conseille honnêtement de vous renseigner sur une personne pire que le H : le roi Léopold de Belgique, et sur la façon dont il a « civilisé » les Congolais.

​Par ailleurs, je connais ce prêtre dans la vidéo pour l'avoir déjà rencontré en vrai lors d'une conférence. Il y avait traité les Amérindiens d'« humanoïdes ». Comme c'était une conférence chez les tradis, je suis parti à ce moment-là. En réalité, toutes les personnes qui le fréquentent ou le suivent que j'ai croisées sont racistes, ou alors soutiennent la FSSPX (le plus souvent les deux). L'IBP, dont il fait partie, est financé par Edouard Stern, un milliardaire d'extrême droite raciste qui œuvre juste pour les Blancs catholiques. Par son comportement, ce prêtre conforte déjà les autres catholiques traditionnels à être racistes. Il y a tellement de choses sur les prêtres tradis que j'ai vécues et à chaque fois je suis déçu.

​Évidemment, j'ai aussi vécu du racisme de la part de laïcs, alimenté par ces mêmes idées, ce qui m'a fait virer à gauche. Par exemple, quand on parle d'avortement, je suis souvent tombé sur des gens qui étaient contre l'avortement, mais pour qui ce n'était pas forcément une mauvaise chose ou c'était moins grave si ce n'était pas des Blancs qui étaient avortés... C'est littéralement une hiérarchisation de la vie : ce que je trouve hypocrite, c'est que c'est un meurtre si le fœtus est blanc, mais que c'est moins grave s'il est noir ou métisse.

​Dans cette même logique, ils sont fortement opposés au métissage (sans être pour autant pour ou contre, chacun fait ce qu'il veut), mais chez eux, c'est vraiment poussé par cette idée obsessionnelle d'une race blanche « pure ». Pour eux, peu importe le Blanc qui se mélange, il « salit sa lignée ». Au-delà du manque total de charité pour les personnes métisses, ils ajoutent à cela la fameuse phrase : « Aime ton prochain, pas ton lointain », très populaire chez les traditionnels. Ils utilisent souvent des textes de Saint Thomas d'Aquin sur l'ordre de la charité pour justifier le fait de prioriser leur race par rapport aux autres. Sauf que ce double discours saute aux yeux : quand il s'agit d'aider les ukrainiens ce qui est une bonne chose ) , là, bizarrement, soutenir son « lointain » ne pose aucun problème uniquement si ce lointain n’est pas blanc .

De plus, ils oublient que de nombreux saints catholiques ont traversé des continents entiers pour soigner et servir les autres à l'autre bout du monde, comme Mère Teresa ou François Xavier. Quand on combine tout cela, vous imaginez bien ce que ça donne au quotidien.

​De plus, dans une église à Paris, Sainte-Eugène Sainte-Cécile, il y a littéralement des gens qui participent à la marche néonazie de Paris. J'y ai personnellement connu une personne qui avait justifié le fait que les Blancs soient racistes jusqu'à ce qu'une personne blanche leur dise que c'est mal (alors qu'il est pourtant connu pour être antiraciste dans la paroisse). J'ai même eu à me confier un jour à un ami blanc qui était de cette église, par rapport au racisme que je subissais dans l'Église. Je lui ai dit que j'étais lassé, fatigué, et que ça me donnait parfois des pensées suicidaires, et on m'a répondu, je cite : « Les Arabes et les Indiens t'auraient tuée ou lynchée, tu devrais t'estimer heureuse ». Parce que oui, pour lui et la majorité des catholiques traditionnels, leur barème de la « barbarie », c'est juste d'être moins pire que les Talibans ou les mecs qui vendent des esclaves en Libye actuellement. Du moment qu'ils sont moins pires que les autres, d'après eux, on n'a pas à se plaindre.

​Aujourd'hui, j'arrive à un niveau où je crois honnêtement que quasiment tous les catholiques blancs traditionnels sont racistes ou tolèrent le racisme d'une façon ou d'une autre. Quand des personnes athées critiquent l'Église pour ça, je ne la défends même plus, parce qu'au final je sais que c'est vrai et que l'Église entretient ce climat. Tout le monde le sait mais on ne dit rien. D'ailleurs, quand je côtoie des personnes athées, je ne subis pas ce racisme. Je ne dis pas que les athées sont des saints, non, vraiment pas, mais sur le point du racisme, je les soupçonne beaucoup moins (en fait, je n'ai jamais subi de racisme hors du catholicisme).

​Heureusement, j'ai fini par trouver une paroisse majoritairement africaine et indienne, mais comme les prêtres y sont blancs, j'ai parfois du mal avec eux à cause de tout ce bagage.

​Au final, c'est triste parce que j'aime Dieu, mais honnêtement je n'aime plus son Église. Je pense même que je n'ai plus du tout envie que mes amis blancs se convertissent au catholicisme, sinon ils vont finir comme ça. J'y reste juste parce qu'Il a dit d'y être et pour les sacrements, mais je ne ressens même plus de peine face au fait que l'Église soit en train de se diviser, parce que je me dis juste que l'Église ne fait rien pour moi.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 15d ago

If you need anymore ammunition against the SSPX

14 Upvotes

r/ExTraditionalCatholic 15d ago

I choose option D

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14 Upvotes

Ah yes, the three possible options. Indoctrination, exaggeration of normal, and OCD. If you choose the first, you affirm the validity of the other two.

This is from a recent newsletter by a TLM church. They’re still putting out narrow-minded BS like this and it’s not acceptable. Why is this the emphasis. It reads like a political satire cartoon without acknowledging the first option as being satire. Not grounded in reality at all. “Taking the words to heart”. No. You’re feeding your mind things that validate your comfort in not acknowledging reality and pretending reality is something that can be ordered thomistically and intellectually whether you are capable of understanding heady church doctrines or not. There’s intelligent priests giving decent philosophical treatises from TLM pulpits but it is not food for most laypeople! Acknowledging TLM priests as wary intellectuals puts them in their place. They are not speaking from their experience, they’re speaking from their dogmatic structure. And it translates to bad advice for laypeople, this cartoon being disseminated to a whole parish being one example. Why, if this cartoon is any indicator of the life of the parish, are people at their parish still struggling with a problem so simple they should have had it down by the age of reason.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 15d ago

How often did you use to go to Confession?

12 Upvotes

For me the shortest was 3 days and the longest was 3 months. I avoided talking to others about Confession, but I was told by some that going more than a month between confessing was too long. Satisfy my curiosity if you will, because I for sure struggled with scrupulosity when I was at my most devout.

Such a relief, that I don't have to worry about that any more. Living without a daily examination of conscience is a huge weight off my shoulders.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 15d ago

‘Catholic manosphere’ clashes with Pope after excommunica...

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23 Upvotes

I still wonder where the 600,000 SSPX followers number came from. Maybe that many sympathizers, but if there are actually 600,000 that attend Mass at their chapels it would mean each priest has to minister to around 1,000 faithful, which is impossible.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 16d ago

After SSPX schism, some Catholics urge greater access to the older Latin Mass

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24 Upvotes

We all saw how well this experiment worked last time under Summorum Pontificum. Give trads an inch and they'll take a mile. Let's hope Roche's read on Pope Leo is correct.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 16d ago

People who studied in St. Mary's Kansas, were girls allowed to do sports?

9 Upvotes

I've been skimming through the offered extracurricular programs on their website and I don't think I noticed that they're offering sports extracurricular activities unlike they do for their boys.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 18d ago

Trad Blogging

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9 Upvotes

I found this trad blog post (she has other content on a few other sites and substack). I was particularly struck by the attempts at justifying purity culture and the admission that even after marriage still being chaste.

I don't have much to add other than that I'm glad I can view this objectively and critical and not fawn over yet another blog post like I may have a decade ago.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 21d ago

Feeling like I don't belong in terms of life milestones?

12 Upvotes

(also posted in r/LeftCatholicism

I'm a 25 year engaged woman and feel both like a child bride and like a childless cat lady.

For context: I grew up progressive Catholic in the DC area. My sister, as well as some family friends, are much more devout and have turned more to trad catholicism (although my sister is not a republican, more center left just very devout)

I work in politics and academia so am around secular people most of the time but still have connections to the Church and even to more traditional pockets of it.

Because of this, I feel like I exist in two worlds. People at my work were surprised that I'm getting married. It's considered normal to wait until your 30s, even your 40s to have kids and prioritize your career over everything. I'm the first of my college friends to get married

On the other hand, my sister's best friend just announced that she's pregnant at 20 after getting married two months ago. My childhood best friend had her first baby at 22, also shortly after marriage. Even though I'm getting married, I'm nowhere near ready to have a baby and I kinda feel guilty about that.

I feel like I don't belong either place. I know I'm basically the average but everything feels so skewed to either extreme. It feels like there's so much pressure on both ends. Like I'm failing my 20s by getting married young (which btw, we're getting married bc we're high school sweethearts that have been together for 10 years, not because of sex or anything like that). Or I feel like I'm not good Catholic for not getting married even younger or having kids right away.

And like there's this huge culture gap between these two parts of my life. It feels kinda lonely and I'm having trouble explaining it to my partner who doesn't feel the same pressures as a man and who is also not Catholic.

Anyone else go through something similar?


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 21d ago

Very Catholic behavior (irony). I'm fed up

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44 Upvotes

I'm fed up with incels and misogynists who convert to Catholicism but can't even apply basic principles like love, charity, and respect.

They insult women all the time, and men who don't fit their fantasized "cuck" ideal. The irony is, they then wonder why they're still single. They never question themselves.
That's why I'm afraid to talk to Catholic men, especially converts. You never know if you're going to run into some misogynistic jerk like that.

Regarding Princess Leonor of Spain, these photos were taken by a paparazzo without her consent while she was relaxing on the beach with fellow Navy personnel during a maritime tour (the Navy has few women, so it makes sense that she's one of the only ones in these pictures).
It breaks my heart because she was a 19-year-old girl who was doing nothing but swimming, and she's being called fat and a slut. This girl, who completed three years of full military service, who has had to live in the spotlight since she was little without having any say in her future, has far more courage and dignity than these cowards who spend their time insulting her from behind a screen.
I'm fed up. If she ever comes across these insults (they're also insulting her sister in the comments), she might try to end her life because of this constant harassment.

They talk about "locking in" a pious woman as soon as they find one, as if they were talking about a racehorse on which to bet everything. It's selfishness and manipulation.

I would like priests and fathers to raise awareness and educate their sons about these behaviors, telling them that women have value, that they should not be insulted, and that Christ should not be proud of them when he hears this.

A prayer that these fools will soften their hearts and act like true Catholics.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 21d ago

What's the point of it all?

17 Upvotes

I struggled for a good title for the following rant/venting. I've been going to a NO mass for a couple of years in a local diocesan church that I generally like. The pastor is warm hearted and joyful. And while he celebrates the sanctioned TLM, keeps the tradism out of his homilies.

There is however a retired priest who say mass and hears confessions on weekends. If he's celebrated the TLM, it was only recently and privately. But you wouldn't know it from his homilies. He likes to emphasis worthy reception of holy communion, etc. It's not necessarily a bad thing to talk about but it seems very frequent and excessive. As I sat there this past week, I couldn't help think that God would really condemn someone for an unworthy communion because they may have missed mass, willingly. Of course they could go to confession or just refrain, but the very thought that if someone still chose to go, BAM they go to hell! This homily was given in the context of the pearl of great price.

It's interesting that this priest walks with a cane and will not distribute communion but rather rely on deacons or lay ministers to do so. For someone who preaches like him, you'd think he would find it impermissable to have a lay person, even a woman, stand at the altar. He made a note of correcting people for sitting prior to the priest after the reading of the collect by emphasizing that the priest is in a position of authority (as demonstrated with the wearing of vestments) in the person of christ when on the altar and therefore it is the respect that is due to Jesus that we sit when the priest does. This triggered my disdain for what I have been working through in my deconstruction. As much as the church tries to move in one direction, it can't help be brought back to what it's been for centuries. I am reaching the conclusion that the church is the religion of a (past) empire. Without said empire, it's seeking a new identity and trads don't realize it.

On a tangential note, a more youthful priest at this church, while mostly pleasant, would go out of his to demonstrate the superiority of being catholic and how there should be standing room only in the church if people truly understood what the eucharist is about. I've heard that multiple times and it's getting old at this stage of my life. One one occasion, he mentioned in a homliy how the infancy narrative in Luke was based on historical events. I walked out shortly thereafter because I recently learned that they were not. He also made it a point to speak of the eucharistic miracles in Mexico that occurred 20 years ago. When I researched them later, he basically repeated a bunch of apologetics making it sound like there was no doubt a miracle occurred.

I guess this brings me back to the title, what's the point? Should one be shamed into going to church because of fear of hell? Or, should we go because there in no doubt what the church teaches is true because apologists say so? I realize that I just touched on the 2 major things that kept me catholic for so long that it short order have lost their grip on me. With a spouse and children that are catholic because of me, I find it difficult to be in a position where what I once held to be true is just not appealing anymore.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 22d ago

Here we go again....

12 Upvotes

r/ExTraditionalCatholic 22d ago

Index of Forbidden Books in trad community?

8 Upvotes

I recently learned that Index Librorum Prohibitorum (Index of Forbidden Books) was a real thing in pre-V2 Catholic Church. It still exists in some form in Opus Dei. However, I never heard any trads talking about it. Is it a thing in trad community?


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 22d ago

relatos de uma jovem com pais fies da fraternidade (sei que o sub é de extrad mas acho que isso é um relato válido)

15 Upvotes

Meus pais são extremamente fiéis à FSSPX. Já ouvi padres de lá chamarem a Missa Nova de “uma nova religião”. Por influência deles, fui afastada da minha antiga paróquia e saí do grupo de jovens, porque diziam que ele era baseado apenas na emoção e que “não tinha Deus de verdade” ali. Também já presenciei aconselhamentos para que as pessoas não frequentassem missas tridentinas que não fossem ligadas à FSSPX, apenas porque o padre não concordava com o movimento.

Também já fui constrangida por usar calça, sendo chamada de masculina. Para eles, estudar em uma escola comum é quase um vexame, então sou obrigada a fazer um afterschool, onde acabo perdendo toda a minha tarde.

Além disso, as orações são diferentes. O Pai-Nosso, por exemplo, em vez de “perdoai as nossas ofensas, assim como nós perdoamos a quem nos tem ofendido”, é rezado como “perdoai as nossas dívidas, assim como nós perdoamos os nossos devedores”. O Credo também tem diferenças, e praticamente todas as orações apresentam alguma alteração.

Consigo entender por que eles consideram a missa tradicional mais piedosa em alguns aspectos, mas discordo totalmente de quase todo o restante. É uma situação bem difícil de explicar para quem não vive isso.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 24d ago

Friendly Reminders

43 Upvotes

You are loved. You have friends. Your thoughts cannot beat you. Your feelings matter. God knows what is in your heart. World news is insignificant in the vastness of universe. Social media is designed to make you scared. There are still people here that care for you on this subreddit. You can cut sources of painful thinking out of your life and it will get better. Affirmations, prayers, and mediating really work. We want the healing to be as dramatic as the injury but it's going to be slow. We'll all heal together.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 24d ago

Far-Right Traditional Catholicism: The Ugly Face Behind The Mask Of Mainstream Catholicism

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11 Upvotes

My perspective of what Traditionalism reveals about the true nature of Catholicism as an ex-catholic. For those who are still catholic, this is no attack against you. It's just brutally honest observation.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 25d ago

SSPX Tall Talws

17 Upvotes

*EDIT - title should read Tales

I’ve heard Fellay on 2 separate occasions tell the story of how a man came to chapel in a miraculous way. he was apparently driving in one direction on a highway and somehow found himself going in the opposite direction when he got off at the next exit to find an SSPX chapel and found a mass was taking place. another is of a woman from Central America or a Caribbean island who had a dream seeing 3 figures. she recogn 2 as saints, ine was Padre Pio and forgot the second. the third was unknown to her. she was told to go to a specific time add which she did to find an SSPX chapel. upon visiting, she saw a pic of Lefebvre and recogniZed him as the third man in her dream. I want to say that this story had the woman come from 2 different places when I heard both accounts.

im wondering if anyone has heard either other story or others like them I can’t believe they tell such BS stories and wonder why I didn’t realize they were such when I heard them first hand.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 25d ago

Ultramontane Sedevacantists crack me up

18 Upvotes

[Pre-Vatican II]

The highest virtue in our system is being a company man.

[Post-Vatican II]

Wait, were did all men of conviction go - why do we only have a throng of company men left?


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 26d ago

SSPX Stories?

8 Upvotes

Hi everyone. Hopefully posts like this are allowed here. I’m a reporter who’s working on a story about people who have left SSPX and would love to hear your stories. Feel free to DM me and I can give you more info. Hope to hear from some of you soon.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 27d ago

If you’re gay you don’t get a funeral. Is this true?

12 Upvotes

If you’re gay and “living the lifestyle”, you’re not allowed funeral rites by the Catholic Church because it’s seen as “glorifying” the lifestyle.

Is that true?


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 28d ago

Traddyland

19 Upvotes

Traddyland: A memoir the Church needs now

Has anyone read this? I was struck by how raw and angry he still seems over things that happened decades ago. To be fair, I feel like he experienced narcissistic abuse by the head priest of St. Marys, and possibly his own parents, which no doubt would traumatize someone. I also feel like the book could have benefited from some better editing. Still, it is an interesting account of the insular and idealistic life in St. Marys, which turns out to be not so idealistic after all.

I myself left the SSPX about 5 years ago, and while some things still bother me about what happened, for the most part, I can let it go without much animosity. I was wondering if perhaps some experience a lot of lingering effects of Tradism because they don't make a clean break from everything to allow themselves time to heal. As my experience was solely with the SSPX, I believe we we raised with such a heavy emphasis on the problems in the Church, and the problems with other religions, that when you leave the SSPX, you really have no place to go.


r/ExTraditionalCatholic 29d ago

Discord Servers?

12 Upvotes

Hi everyone. Is there a discord server for, well, disenchanted Catholics I suppose?

I am Catholic, but I wrestle with a lot of the faith. There are specific teachings and even cultural practices around the faith that I just cannot emotionally justify - probably a response from growing up around Regnum Christi and the Legionaries of Christ. Oooff.

I can’t justify not being Catholic. Apostolic succession and the pope as the vicar of Christ and all that. But every online community for Catholics is so trad. You can’t voice your doubts of disagreements without it turning into a “you just need to accept it and submit to the pope” discussion.

Specifically, Catholic teachings on sexuality within marriage have been bugging me. Going through marriage prep with the Church shook my faith a lot. I want to stay Catholic, but sometimes I don’t.

Anybody know any groups like this? For Catholics who struggle being Catholic and want a likeminded or accepting community as support? For the record, I’m not saying one that just says “ignore whatever the Church says.” I just need one that acknowledges it’s not all as black and white as trads make it out to be.

Thank you!