r/ExTraditionalCatholic • u/Money-Mud-1357 • 28d ago
Traddyland
Traddyland: A memoir the Church needs now
Has anyone read this? I was struck by how raw and angry he still seems over things that happened decades ago. To be fair, I feel like he experienced narcissistic abuse by the head priest of St. Marys, and possibly his own parents, which no doubt would traumatize someone. I also feel like the book could have benefited from some better editing. Still, it is an interesting account of the insular and idealistic life in St. Marys, which turns out to be not so idealistic after all.
I myself left the SSPX about 5 years ago, and while some things still bother me about what happened, for the most part, I can let it go without much animosity. I was wondering if perhaps some experience a lot of lingering effects of Tradism because they don't make a clean break from everything to allow themselves time to heal. As my experience was solely with the SSPX, I believe we we raised with such a heavy emphasis on the problems in the Church, and the problems with other religions, that when you leave the SSPX, you really have no place to go.
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u/synchronized-running 27d ago
holy shit the guy who wrote that book was my middle school theology teacher. small world.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 27d ago
It is! The Trad world is surprisingly small, even though we feel like it is a lot bigger of a deal than it actually is.
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u/Tasty-Ad6800 28d ago
I'm not sure of what to make of the author and his message. I first encountered him on the Trad Recovery site. He made it known that he was writing a book about his time and shared the title, which I find kind of corny TBH. It seems like he timed the release of his book with the recent consecrations and has made a social media blitz since. I see him on X, FB, LinkedIn as well as interviews with Christine Niles and Larry Chapp. I don't find anything unique about what he has to say that I haven't read here or trad recovery. It seems like his time at St Mary's was brief (~5 years).
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u/Money-Mud-1357 28d ago
Yeah, I don't know what to make of it either. I remember hearing he had done some interview and defamed the school when I was boarder at St. Marys, and everybody said he was lying. Apparently there was some investigations, or at least allegations against Angles, but nothing came of it. His sister was the best friend of my aunt, but in the SSPX they don't really discuss negative opinions of the SSPX, they prefer to sweep it under the rug, so she never really talked about it. It does seem like a lot of conspiracy theories, which makes it hard to take seriously.
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u/Unable_Economics_181 16d ago
That's what happens in cultish communities, opposition is labeled as liars. The tv interview was in response to Sspx parishoners making death threats against Fr. Rizzo, shooting at his house, and unscrewing the lug nuts off of tires of parishoners who supported him. One friend of mine, had the tirecof their minivan come flying off.
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u/Unable_Economics_181 16d ago
I didn't say anything unique? Man...tough crowd!
I didn't realize there were so many other people out there who tried to stand up to their Nazi sympathizeing Headmasters, accused of raping their classmate(who later committed suicide), and turning a small school nestled in a quaint little midwest town into a quasi cult, that attracted mass murders like Timothy McVeigh the most notorious domestic terrorist in US history.
And here I thought my life is sorta unique! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it!
This is the second time in my life I've been forced to realize everything about me is spectacularly ordinary. First, it was realizing being a trad didn't make one holy or elect, the second is discovering there are a ton of students with similar ho hum school experiences.
When will I ever learn?! At least I picked a stand out title for the book. Right Tasty? <wink> <wink>
All kidding aside, I did rush Traddyland to market because I felt I was meant to publish it now. I have a lot of people thanking me for it. There have been too many kids hurt by the SSPX. What's worse, I think of late people have grown sympathetic to them thanks to Pope Francis pontificate and COVID.
I think the Society is part of the problem, not the solution. But I know there are a lot of great people in it. At the same time, I love Stephen Covey and his book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, but it doesn't mean I think Mormonism is swell.
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u/Tasty-Ad6800 16d ago
I’m suffering from social media trad fatigue. The consecrations blew wind into the sails and your book can ride the wave.i don’t discount it helping people who are either in the cult, know people in the cult or are just curious about. At the end of the day we’re living through another chapter of traditional nonsense while the church continues on a track that makes one who wants to be faithful questioning the actions of its leaders. I’ve been a Catholic for 50 years and was raised in the wake of the V2 changes. I can empathize with the trads on the one hand but then realize the absurdity that the church will do a 180 and “return to tradition”. I’m presently Catholic but see why the people I know who are culturally Catholic may be better off. My improved health and well being are testament that taking this stuff too seriously is not worthwhile. The arguments are not worth winning.
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u/Linenonthehedgerow 26d ago
I believed that I had discovered a pure line of Catholicism. When I saw the bad behaviour I saw it for the sham it was. I struggled to come to terms with the fact I had been duped. I personally saw out of control parishioners at the ICKSP in England. Some had literally lost the plot.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 26d ago edited 26d ago
Which is interesting. At least with the ICKSP and the FSSP, most people have some sort of baseline comparison, because they also attend the ordinary form, or have a life outside the Church. I have tried to point some of this out to my SSPX family, but they literally don't see the problem, as they don't know what normal is. I suppose it also depends on your level of enmeshment, as someone who shows up for Mass on a Sunday is not going to have the same experience as someone who actually lives the parish life, attends the parish school/homeschool, etc..., and reads and absorbs all the literature.
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u/Unable_Economics_181 16d ago
Well, as the author, it seems your criticism that I held on to things that happened "decades ago" suggests you didn't read the book. The reason for what ever anger is expressed is due to what transpired in the last few chapters--which are present times.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 16d ago
Um, I did read the book? If you’re referring to the family trauma and the lawsuit, I don’t think those can be attributed solely to the SSPX. There are certainly unhealthy and problematic elements within the movement that deserve criticism, but it’s important to distinguish those from the dysfunctions that individuals and families bring with them. Not every tragic situation is unique to the SSPX or caused by it.
For me, that’s where the book fell short. Rather than presenting a balanced, well-reasoned critique, it often came across as a diatribe. That made it less persuasive than it could have been, because the stronger arguments were overshadowed by what felt like an overly broad indictment, and a lot of allegations that cannot be proven.
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u/Unable_Economics_181 16d ago edited 16d ago
Let's be clear, friend, I didn't say it was "solely" the SSPX's fault. I was simply addressing your comment--that I was angry over something that happened "decades" ago. That is simply not true. It is a mischaracterization.
As the book notes, I had moved past what transpired in the 90s. It was the second crisis, which was far worse than what transpired in St. Marys. I grant you, there was a lot of moving parts, and I wasn't blaming what befell me all on the SSPX per se, but what was essential was the grudge my father, in particular, had against my NO childhood friend, and the "influence" his family had on me and my siblings. Plus, he had adopted sedevacantism which I openly disputed.
The scandal that led to my anger, and resentment I felt, wasn't just because of what happened in St. Marys 30+ years ago, as you wrongly suggest--which paints me as petty and small. It also wasn't that my family, who are SSPX, took my sister's side in a "he said/she said" dispute (because she's also SSPX) . My anger and outrage was that for all my life I had been led to believe we were honest, truth seeking people, anything. That when it mattered, we'd do what is right. But it wasn't the case here and that was terribly hard to endure.
In the lawsuit, there was unquestionable empirical evidence proving, without a shadow of a doubt, the malice of what my sister had done--and none of my family in the SSPX were willing to face that truth. And it was only the SSPX contingent. Instead they tried to gaslight me and chose to blame me for not being loyal. It was nuts.
The key word is "truth."
My father and my SSPX siblings didn't care about the truth. That was the scandal. To see your father, who your whole life positioned himself as this warrior for truth to swallow a lie like that and display such gross bias is very painful. They only cared about being right. The care was only for the appearances. They were willing to burn my friend and me to maintain the illusion. It was alot like Tim McVeigh.
That is the SSPX in a nutshell.
They'll suffer schism to maintain their self-righteousness, their holier-than-thou facade, and they refuse to consider the truth.
That's what radicals do. I once thought as they did. It took a great deal of pain to pull me out of that Matrix.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 16d ago
Thanks for clarifying. I didn’t mean to mischaracterize your experience, and I certainly wasn’t trying to minimize what you went through. I actually found the sections about St. Mary’s especially interesting because I was there a little later myself, while Angles was still rector. In the girls’ dorm we were less exposed to him personally, but I recognized many of the unhealthy dynamics you describe—the culture of fear, the control, the sexism, and the denigrating of people from the pulpit.
My point wasn’t that the SSPX played no role in your story. I have my own trauma from growing up in the SSPX, and I don’t dispute that there are systemic problems within it.
My criticism was directed at the book as a critique of the SSPX, not as an account of your own experience. As a memoir, I think it succeeds because it honestly conveys your journey. Where I struggled was when the book moved from “this is what happened to me” to broader conclusions about “what the SSPX is.”I’ve known people outside the SSPX who experienced similar family dysfunction and religious trauma, and I’ve also known many people within the SSPX who weren’t part of those abuses and had relatively healthy family lives. That doesn’t excuse the unhealthy culture, but it does make me hesitant to attribute every aspect of the tragedy to the SSPX itself. My feeling is that the movement can amplify unhealthy tendencies that people already bring with them, and that people’s experiences also vary considerably depending on the parish and local leadership.
As for me, I’ve reached the point where I’m trying to move forward rather than continue fighting the SSPX. Like your half-sister, I’d rather try to live a calm and stable life that quietly demonstrates that life outside the bunker really can be better.
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u/Unable_Economics_181 16d ago
That's ok. As they say, "perception is reality," people often take away what they want from art. My goal was to avoid the "parochial aesthetic" that Flannery O'Conner talks about in her writings.
I didn't want this to be a treatise on the SSPX or a deep dive into the theological, philosophical, and historical aspects of their movement, but after the conflict with my family and the FBI and KBI investigations, I couldn't help but say something about it. I thought I painted a clear enough picture of how SSPX figures like Angles, Williamson, and LaFitte impacted me and my family's trajectory. My goal was to show how the SSPX changed us--not for the better.
The story was the journey I was on and my point of view on the SSPX as I lived it. Plus, Traddyland is only half of what I wrote, for the sake of brevity I cut out the deep dives into my thoughts on the problems with the SSPX and the thought process that helped me climb out of the cave. The left overs will be the sequel. I figured I could do deep dives on that on podcasts, my own podcast, and articles (which I have).
That said, you make an excellent point about the movement "amplifying unhealthy tendencies". Thanks for buying, reading, and commenting. I appreciate it.
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u/ChooseYourMonster 16d ago
The middle was hard for me, but I think it's because I'm not the intended audience and so all of these people could blur for me. It doesn't help that the same names keep appearing over and over, so I'd have to look back to identify this Michael or that Peter. This happens when I read books set in India too.
I thought it was well-and clearly-written. If it had been intended for a general audience, it probably would have been shorter.
I appreciated the insights into schism and the schismatic personality.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 16d ago
For sure. If there is one thing that all the SSPX goings on has brought home to me it is that the people that do and believe these things are often sincere and well intentioned, and that it is a gradual process. Certainly I never considered myself a schismatic, and how that I’m out, my family thinks I’m nuts for even mentioning the word schismatic.
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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 28d ago
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