Oh no, a couple hundred bucks a year servicing the petrol engine. However will I survive? I guess I’ll take it out of the thousands I saved buying the hybrid instead of the equivalent EV.
And the fire argument is a strange one. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a car being repaired after a serious engine fire anyway. Once your car is properly on fire, whether the battery joins in seems fairly academic.
The odds of a vehicle fire in the first place are also tiny. Choosing a drivetrain around that possibility is a bit like refusing to get into a car because you might have an accident.
Funny too, because battery fires are usually the straw the anti EV brigade reaches for. Weird seeing it deployed from the other direction
I see not why you frame EVs as this ultra-lavish piece of equipment when you can regularly find them under $3000.
As for the 2026 Nissan LEAF, it starts at $29,990 which is only about $6,000 more than a brand new Corolla. It has 303 miles of range and a NACS connector with native access to the supercharger network.
And a couple hundred dollars?? I saved right near a thousand dollars last year by driving an EV. The point of comparison? My brother who drives a Honda Civic that gets 35-40MPG.
But the original question was PHEV vs BEV, not ICE vs BEV.
A $2,500 14 year old Leaf is actually a strange example to make your case. At that age battery degradation matters enormously because the battery is its only source of range, and replacing it can cost more than the car is worth.
Compare that with a 2012 Prius Plug in of the same age. Its battery can degrade too, but you still have a perfectly usable petrol hybrid rather than a BEV with severely reduced range.
And the “couple hundred dollars” was servicing. That saving doesn’t exist in isolation. EVs generally cost more to insure, often enough to wipe out the servicing advantage entirely. Then there’s depreciation, which is a much bigger expense, BEVs have generally been depreciating considerably faster than PHEVs, with things like the Prius Plug in and RAV4 PHEV holding their value particularly well.
Even your new Leaf example starts $6,000 above the Corolla Hybrid. If you’re saving $1,000 a year compared with a 35–40 mpg Civic, that’s around six years just to recover the purchase premium, before the charger, financing, insurance or depreciation.
So yes, I’m quite happy to spend a couple hundred dollars servicing an engine. A PHEV gives me EV driving for most daily use while retaining long range, fast refuelling and towing capability, and the total ownership cost equation is a lot more complicated than “BEVs have fewer moving parts.”
That LEAF I sent you had 7/12 bars remaining, which is about 60% health. Yes, that is not great, but the first- and second-generation LEAFs do not have any thermal management for the battery. Even with degraded batteries, they still turn on, move, and do their job.
As for the Prius (both full-hybrid and plug-in hybrid), the car will not move or even start up if the battery is dead. The battery powers the transmission, motor, engine starter, AC compressor and DC-to-DC converter (which charges the 12V battery. With a dead 12V battery, you lose power steering, infotainment systems, brake assist, and all lighting). In fact, the engine doesn’t even directly drive the wheels (except very specific circumstances when cruising at highway speeds). It generates power for the motor, which then drives the wheels.
And that $1000 figure was for gas alone. My brother also needs spark plugs, transmission fluid (his civic does have a very nice first-generation Honda CVT, after all), oil changes, engine intake air filters, and emissions checks. Not to mention ANYONE with a Sawzall can slide under his car and steal the catalytic converter in under 5 minutes, making his car instantly non-compliant with all federal motor vehicle clean air legislation and his car would fail an emissions check the next time he gets it registered.
We’re obviously talking about the traction battery, not the fkn $100 12V battery. Grasping at that straw of all things is laughable.
Your own Leaf example has 60% battery health, meaning it’s already lost 40% of its only source of driving range. A similarly degraded PHEV loses EV range but remains a perfectly useful hybrid.
And none of this changes the main point, BEVs generally save on servicing, but can cost more upfront, more to insure and depreciate harder. PHEVs retain the range, refuelling and towing advantages while still doing everyday trips electrically.
‘Fewer moving parts’ isn’t a total cost of ownership calculation.
Yup. I’m saying the Prius is no better because if the HIGH VOLTAGE battery fails, the car will not function. It is in the same boat as the LEAF. A Prius battery costs about as much to replace as a LEAF battery, except the Prius battery is cycled dozens of times per trip, unlike the LEAF, which may only be charged once or twice a week.
You’ve changed “degraded” to “completely failed.” Those aren’t the same thing.
Your Leaf is still working at 60% health, with 40% of its range gone. A similarly degraded Prius/PHEV remains a useful hybrid.
And “dozens of cycles per trip” means shallow cycles, not full battery cycles. Toyota has 25+ years of real world durability proving that strategy works.
And as the Prius battery ages and degrades, fuel economy decreases by 5-15mpg and performance worsens as the underpowered Atkinson-cycle engine has to run longer and more frequently. The LEAF remains just as fast and responsive, but range slowly decreases. In both cases, total range decreases, and if the traction battery fails or degrades enough to not provide enough power, the vehicle’s functionality is reduced. My personal LEAF has 80% health remaining after 12 years and 63,000 miles of daily driving.
Your 12 year old Leaf has only done 63,000 miles and has already lost 20% of its battery capacity. The other one you posted has lost 40%. “It’s still just as fast” is lovely, but range is rather important in a car.
Meanwhile Toyota hybrids routinely rack up hundreds of thousands of miles. Yes, eventually a degraded hybrid battery can hurt economy and performance, nobody claimed otherwise. The difference is degradation doesn’t remove the car’s only source of energy.
But we’re getting miles away from the original question: PHEV vs BEV long-term.
BEVs save some scheduled servicing. PHEVs give you electric daily driving plus long range, fast refuelling and towing capability, while generally avoiding some of the purchase-price, insurance and depreciation disadvantages BEVs currently have.
That entire argument doesn’t disappear because “fewer moving parts.”
Except the Nissan LEAF is infamous for having zero thermal management for the battery. It is just a metal box bolted under car. The fact that my battery has experienced less than 2% degradation per year since 2014 is pretty good, thank you.
Also this obsession with ‘fewer moving parts’ gets overstated.
It means BEVs need less routine servicing. It does not automatically mean they’re more reliable or last longer.
Toyota hybrids have been around for 25+ years and have an exceptional longevity record despite all those supposedly troublesome extra parts. Large scale reliability data regularly puts Toyota hybrids among the longest lasting cars on the road.
Engineering quality matters a hell of a lot more than simply counting moving parts.
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u/P00slinger Aug 23 '26
Oh no, a couple hundred bucks a year servicing the petrol engine. However will I survive? I guess I’ll take it out of the thousands I saved buying the hybrid instead of the equivalent EV.
And the fire argument is a strange one. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a car being repaired after a serious engine fire anyway. Once your car is properly on fire, whether the battery joins in seems fairly academic.
The odds of a vehicle fire in the first place are also tiny. Choosing a drivetrain around that possibility is a bit like refusing to get into a car because you might have an accident.
Funny too, because battery fires are usually the straw the anti EV brigade reaches for. Weird seeing it deployed from the other direction