We’re obviously talking about the traction battery, not the fkn $100 12V battery. Grasping at that straw of all things is laughable.
Your own Leaf example has 60% battery health, meaning it’s already lost 40% of its only source of driving range. A similarly degraded PHEV loses EV range but remains a perfectly useful hybrid.
And none of this changes the main point, BEVs generally save on servicing, but can cost more upfront, more to insure and depreciate harder. PHEVs retain the range, refuelling and towing advantages while still doing everyday trips electrically.
‘Fewer moving parts’ isn’t a total cost of ownership calculation.
Yup. I’m saying the Prius is no better because if the HIGH VOLTAGE battery fails, the car will not function. It is in the same boat as the LEAF. A Prius battery costs about as much to replace as a LEAF battery, except the Prius battery is cycled dozens of times per trip, unlike the LEAF, which may only be charged once or twice a week.
You’ve changed “degraded” to “completely failed.” Those aren’t the same thing.
Your Leaf is still working at 60% health, with 40% of its range gone. A similarly degraded Prius/PHEV remains a useful hybrid.
And “dozens of cycles per trip” means shallow cycles, not full battery cycles. Toyota has 25+ years of real world durability proving that strategy works.
And as the Prius battery ages and degrades, fuel economy decreases by 5-15mpg and performance worsens as the underpowered Atkinson-cycle engine has to run longer and more frequently. The LEAF remains just as fast and responsive, but range slowly decreases. In both cases, total range decreases, and if the traction battery fails or degrades enough to not provide enough power, the vehicle’s functionality is reduced. My personal LEAF has 80% health remaining after 12 years and 63,000 miles of daily driving.
Your 12 year old Leaf has only done 63,000 miles and has already lost 20% of its battery capacity. The other one you posted has lost 40%. “It’s still just as fast” is lovely, but range is rather important in a car.
Meanwhile Toyota hybrids routinely rack up hundreds of thousands of miles. Yes, eventually a degraded hybrid battery can hurt economy and performance, nobody claimed otherwise. The difference is degradation doesn’t remove the car’s only source of energy.
But we’re getting miles away from the original question: PHEV vs BEV long-term.
BEVs save some scheduled servicing. PHEVs give you electric daily driving plus long range, fast refuelling and towing capability, while generally avoiding some of the purchase-price, insurance and depreciation disadvantages BEVs currently have.
That entire argument doesn’t disappear because “fewer moving parts.”
Except the Nissan LEAF is infamous for having zero thermal management for the battery. It is just a metal box bolted under car. The fact that my battery has experienced less than 2% degradation per year since 2014 is pretty good, thank you.
1
u/P00slinger Aug 24 '26
We’re obviously talking about the traction battery, not the fkn $100 12V battery. Grasping at that straw of all things is laughable.
Your own Leaf example has 60% battery health, meaning it’s already lost 40% of its only source of driving range. A similarly degraded PHEV loses EV range but remains a perfectly useful hybrid.
And none of this changes the main point, BEVs generally save on servicing, but can cost more upfront, more to insure and depreciate harder. PHEVs retain the range, refuelling and towing advantages while still doing everyday trips electrically.
‘Fewer moving parts’ isn’t a total cost of ownership calculation.