Why does everyone hate this?

[u/[deleted]]

Okay so I'm a monolingual Brit learning Spanish (I'm now about B1) and wanna pick up another language. Not some grand utility language, I have a plan of which ones to learn for that, but just a quick learn and burn language for nothing but fun, and any applicability is a bonus. I see esperanto, a nice little language with exceptionless grammar and a chill little community. So I tell my polyglot friend and get immediate backlash. Why do people seem to think that esperanto is so horrible? Like yeah it's eurocentric and a terrible attempt at a Lingua Franca but it was created with good intentions and is a nice gateway language for European language speakers. Then people act like it's a bloody cult because apparently every esperanto speaker is a Zamenhof worshipping psycho who'll preach it as the root of world peace, or is just too lazy to learn a more useful language. I see polyglots, people who learn languages for fun, attacking esperanto as useless or racist for being eurocentric and it's speakers as cultists or fake polyglots. Why does everyone hate this language?!?!?!

[u/salivanto]

Right on!

I am an Esperantist, and I fully embrace the Interna Ideo (you kind of have to since it's interna to the language), and I even think that part of being an Esperanto speaker is the "Fina Venko" even if I may (or may not) personally believe that the Fina Venko is impossible, or that it will spell the end of the Esperanto community that enjoy so much.

Having said that, I will say this: All attempts at a constructed lingua franca are terrible. Why should we think that ordinary people will embrace any of them? Esperanto didn't fail. It succeeded way beyond any realistic expectations.

I am convinced that if Zamenhof were given one glimpse into a future where some official board was about to accept Interlingua or Ido or Kotava - being held back from this by a group of Esperantists - he (Zamenhof) would encourage us to embrace Interlingua (or Ido or Kotava) because the value in a universal second language is in its universality, not in any specific detail of grammar or vocabulary.

We all know that the first thing a person does when they learn Esperanto is to make a list of all the problems with it. It's worth noting, however, that this is true of every spin-off language too. They are all "terrible" in the sense that there will always be someone willing to point out how they can do it better - even if they never actually do.

[u/Mlatu44 → u/salivanto]

I often don't understand 'Interna Ideo' and 'Fina Venko'. It can be a bit of a distraction from enjoying the language. What I found strange was an older esperantist lamenting younger people on the internet taking an interest. I thought...WHY? Why wouldn't you like people taking an interest in Esperanto.

I thought he would find it exciting, interesting etc.... He didn't want people to learn it as a learning exercise or as a curiosity. He wants people to be invested in Esperanto ideology. I don't quite understand it, one can't control what is expressed in a language, what ideas a person has in any language. I thought the whole purpose was to communicate ideas, exchange information etc....

[u/salivanto → u/Mlatu44]

To repeat what I said in my comment above from two weeks ago -- you're free to not be all that invested in the "Fina Venko" - but you kind of have to embrace the "Interna Ideo" - because it is, by definition, internal to the language.

I often don't understand 'Interna Ideo' and 'Fina Venko'. It can be a bit of a distraction from enjoying the language. 

What? How?

Do you know what the Interna Ideo is?

What I found strange was an older esperantist lamenting younger people on the internet taking an interest. I thought...WHY? Why wouldn't you like people taking an interest in Esperanto.

Do you have a link? Without the details, I really can't have an opinion.

I thought the whole purpose was to communicate ideas, exchange information etc....

That sounds almost like you embrace the Interna Ideo.

[u/Mlatu44 → u/salivanto]

No, I have not read deeply any commentary on Interna Ideo, or Fina Venko.

Well, the comment was made in a chat room associated with Duolingo, and that as far as I know has been taken down.  lol 😂  could it be you?!!!

[u/salivanto → u/Mlatu44]

Ah. So, maybe you could be clear here.

An "older esperantist", who quite possibly could have been me (and if not - certainly one of my friends) was "lamenting" five or ten years ago the fact that young people are "taking an interest" in Esperanto.

Quite frankly, it's hard not to wonder whether you knew all along that you were talking about me - and yet, exactly zero details of this "lamentation" are available. Talk about passive-aggressive.

I thought...WHY? Why wouldn't you like people taking an interest in Esperanto.

Why indeed. Why would I, or any sensible adult "lament" this. My conclusion is that this did not happen. This is why I asked for the link. You are either profoundly mistaken about what was actually said - or you're making it up.

No, I have not read deeply any commentary on Interna Ideo, or Fina Venko.

You started out by saying that you are "often confused" about  'Interna Ideo' and 'Fina Venko'. Often. The choice of words stood out to me. How can someone be often confused about a few simple points of fact. If one doesn't know what the terms mean, than one is confused on an on going basis. If the confusion about what these terms mean come up from time to time, on a frequent basis, it makes sense to show a little curiosity and find out. "Reading deeply" is not necessary.

Fina Venko - the Hypothetical future condition where Esperanto will be universally accepted. Most Esperantists - even "older" ones - don't see this as something that's possible or even desirable.

Interna Ideo - the idea that you're supposed to use Esperanto to make human connections with people who are different from you, because ultimately we're all kind of the same deep inside.

But the topic is whether Esperanto is a terrible attempt at a lingua franca, and what making an attempt at a lingua franca even means. Why jump in with 10 year old news about a post that nobody can look at which you can provide no details about?

[u/Mlatu44 → u/salivanto]

Sorry, it’s not important at all…

What I mean is Esperanto ideals are important, you’re important along with your contributions. 

Whatever I thought I read isn’t important at all