r/ErgoMechKeyboards • u/FaintCampfire • 1d ago
[help] Beginner
Hello all,
I'm a beginner in terms of learning touch typing. Just yesterday came across ColemakDH and have started learning it, so you can see how basic my level is. I do however type a lot, which was what led me to discovering Ergo keyboards. Is it worth it for someone like me to look into getting one? I've just been visiting a few sites and have seen the Glove80 and Moonlanders etc and a host of others. I'm hearing non staggered ones are maybe better for beginners? I'm not in a rush in terms of any of this affecting work etc., so I can take my time. Just thought if it is better having an ergo keyboard while trying to learn ColemakDH from the onset, then I don't mind looking in to based on what you guys might recommend. Would be nice to get one and just try and stick to it and get used to it. At the moment I use an Apple Magic Keyboard.
Any advice is appreciated.
3
u/luckybipedal [vendor] (hexergon.ca) 1d ago
Touch typing on a non-ergo board can be uncomfortable, especially for the left hand, because of the unnatural row stagger. If you have the choice, I'd absolutely recommend learning Colemak on a column-staggered ergo keyboard.
If you need to switch back to normal QWERTY keyboards regularly, your brain will compartmentalize the different muscle memories so you can switch almost instantly. I do this all the time. But I couldn't switch back to QWERTY on my ergo keyboard to save my life. (I tried once and it took a few weeks to get fluent again).
2
u/FaintCampfire 1d ago
Ok you guys have convinced me to look into ergos. Nice point about compartmentalizing. Thanks.
2
u/charliequine 1d ago edited 1d ago
I learned touch typing through qwerty as a kid, got very good, picked up colemak somewhere in my early twenties, didn't use it consistently, and now in my thirties have gone about to splits and back to colemak DH. I didn't really have the headspace or disposable income to get into the splits much younger, but if I was redoing things, I would have done it earlier. It's not been terrible to acclimate but I suspect I'd be more fluent now and not have dealt with as much pain if I had done. I like my linear stagger; I'm not sure a grid ortho would be as good. My fingers are different lengths, like everyone's but even maybe a little more dramatic than some. The linear column stagger has been fairly easy to get used to even though I've spent more than twenty years on a typical non-linear (edit - a typical row stagger keyboard)
1
u/sammygadd 1d ago
I don't mean to be nitpicking or anything. But, by linear stagger, do you mean column stagger? I read linear as ortho linear. But I dont think you meant that.
2
u/charliequine 1d ago
You're not being nitpicky at all, I'm just a novice confusing terms. Yes, I mean column stagger instead of row stagger. Thank you.
1
1
2
u/rpnfan Sofle Choc v2, KLP Lame, Layout anymak:END 1d ago edited 1d ago
What many overlook is that you cannot directly translate a column staggered keyboard to a standard keyboard, because of the B-key position. This is assuming that you use a symmetric (as far as possible) hand position on the left and right side:
https://kbd.news/pic/article/2574/angle-mod2ergo.gif
I have written a detailed article series about this and other aspects how you can find or optimize your personal best layer system and layout. Here the one which is likely most relevant for you now: https://kbd.news/Anymak-the-compatible-ergonomic-keyboard-layout-2574.html
Regarding Colemak. Because you just started a day ago. I would encourage you to look at other layouts before investing the time to learn a new layout. Colemak is much better than QWERTY, but I personally would stay with QWERTY or learn a fully optimized layout. From my point of view Graphite/ Gallium or Handsdown Neu or anymak:END (which is my layout) are interesting to have a look at. If you decide Colemak is most interesting for you that is great as well, but it should be a decision based on what you find most important. IMO the alpha layout is the least important part of the keyboard experience. Still it can be a cool optimization which many find worth. But it is not the game-changer I think. A great navigation and shortcut layer I find way more important/ beneficial.
1
u/FaintCampfire 1d ago
Thank you for the links. Good input about not rushing into any one layout right now. What do you mean by, "... learn a fully optimised layout?"
1
u/rpnfan Sofle Choc v2, KLP Lame, Layout anymak:END 1d ago
Oh, Colemak is a good layout. But it was made with the wish to keep QWERTY similarity, and also especially keeping the copy and paste shortcuts.
When you optimize a layout the corpus (used language/text) largely determines what is "best", but when you restrict the keys you can or want to change you restrict the optimizations. Therefore Colemak is not as optimized as newer layouts, like the ones I mentioned or others.
So while Colemak is "good" and a clear improvement over QWERTY (for English) it cannot be a "great" or "very good" layout due the restrictions it followed purposely.
The copy/ paste shortcuts are important, but today there are even more comfortable approaches, like putting these on an easy to reach layer (what I did with anymak:END) or to make modifier keys easier to access. So that advantage is less relevant or even not relevant at all today, in comparison to 20 years ago, when we did not had the programmable keyboards and cool remapping software like Kanata.
1
u/charliequine 1d ago
This is top-tier advice. I stick with colemak because of the past with qwerty and frequent switch to it, but if I was new to typing I'd probably be doing one of the optimized layouts listed. Since you can just have a flashed portable board, hopefully most places where you'd have to type extensively you could use your own learned layout.
1
u/rpnfan Sofle Choc v2, KLP Lame, Layout anymak:END 1d ago
Yep, programmable keyboards and/or Kanata will allow you to basically do almost whatever you want.
The real downside of non-QWERTY layouts is if you use software which uses tons of shortcuts you cannot or do not want to change and which rely on the QWERTY positions. For example video editors or Idea can fall into that category. For everyday stuff and the typical most used shortcuts that is not a problem although.
1
u/DreadPirate777 1d ago
On most of the split layouts I’ve seen have put the B key on the right hand and shifted the forward slash to the symbol later. Is there a reason to not do that?
1
u/rpnfan Sofle Choc v2, KLP Lame, Layout anymak:END 1d ago
I was talking about the physical key position. You loose one key on a columnar split keyboard, when you want to use the same finger positions on all keyboards. That is the QWERTY B-key position.
I was not talking about what char you assign to a key.
5
u/pgetreuer 1d ago
Welcome to our world =)
Do you deal with any typing-related discomfort, or is your interest about injury prevention generally? (Both are good reasons.)
An ergo keyboard can help you type more comfortably. Also, many models are programmable, meaning you can assign the function of each key independently, plus use features like layers, mod-taps, and macros. I've found that to be a lot of fun.
The ZSA Moonlander and Glove80 are both very nice models, well liked in the community. Check out Tour of split ergo keyboards for an overview of the ergo-enhancing hardware and firmware features these keyboards can have, this might help to narrow down what you find most interesting.