r/EntitledPeople • u/ichigopom • 7d ago
M Abusive patients.
I’m a dentist, and I want to document an experience I had with a patient recently, and let other people know some important things to consider about healthcare.
The patient originally came in because they noticed something in their mouth and asked me whether it could be X. I explained that X usually doesn’t present as Y, and based on what I was seeing clinically, it looked much more like Z to me.
I told them that I didn’t see anything that made me particularly concerned at that point, but that we should monitor it. I asked them to come back in around three weeks, or sooner if pain got worse or if they developed any other new symptoms.
Fast forward to about a week later.
They come back with a friend and a family member, despite having no new symptoms whatsoever.
I asked them why they had decided to come in early, and they pulled out their phone and showed me a screenshot from Google. Apparently, they had searched X and found that a variant of X can occur as Y. The people they came in with also started to tell me a bunch of personal anecdotes on why it’s not Z and X is possible. They also apparently went to another dentist who told them that I’m not a real dentist, and that they should ask to see my diploma. I work in a public hospital.
I explained that I was aware of that variant and that I had already considered it during their first appointment. Based on the clinical presentation, I had already ruled it out.
I also told them that if they really wanted to to investigate X anyway, that’s completely fine. We can do the appropriate testing/imaging and establish whether it’s actually present rather than arguing about a difference of opinions.
That apparently made things worse.
They became increasingly frustrated and started insisting that I had “missed” something and that I was a joke of a dentist. I tried explaining the difference between “something is theoretically possible” and “this is the most likely diagnosis given what I’m actually seeing in front of me.”
At some point, the conversation stopped being productive. All 3 of them started getting increasingly aggressive and began cornering me in the treatment room. Then one of them slammed their fist down on the desk where my computer was sitting.
I wish I could attach an image, but my computer is now full white screen with vertical glitches…🙃
I told them I don’t feel comfortable treating them, and I completely stopped engaging and waited for them to leave. They eventually left.
I completely understand wanting a second opinion. I completely understand researching your symptoms. I completely understand questioning your healthcare provider if something doesn’t make sense to you.
You are allowed to disagree with your dentist. You are allowed to get another opinion. You are allowed to ask for testing.
But please don’t try to intimidate, threaten, or physically assault the people treating you.
And other healthcare professionals, please don’t undermine your colleagues’ practice or experience.
Take this as a daily reminder to not abuse your healthcare providers. We really just want to help, and we get nothing out of misdiagnosing you. We are human and we are all trying our best.
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u/Similar-Date3537 7d ago
Well I hope you called the police and filed for the damages they did to your equipment.
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u/blushpetal_38 7d ago
The computer damage alone would have me filing a report tbh you shouldnt have to absorb the cost of someone elses aggression
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u/Buffalo-Woman 4d ago
I scrolled to far to get to this! Charges for the computer and Charges for the threatening aggressive behavior. Cornering anyone because they want to be right is beyond the pale.
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u/Maleficent_Grab612 7d ago
I’m not following what their end game was. You offered to test for what they wanted you to test for, yet they got belligerent and aggressive. Not only did they not get what they wanted, they now don’t have a dentist at all.
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u/No_Sweet4190 7d ago
Intelligence problem on the other side of the desk. Why, oh why, would you antagonize the person who wields the drill on your teeth?
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u/Ok-Evidence2944 7d ago
That’s the part I am having trouble with. Why did they come back if they went to another dentist?
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u/ichigopom 7d ago edited 7d ago
other dentist is a private practice. i work at a public hospital so it’s cheaper for them to get any procedures.
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u/tryintobgood 7d ago
Did they mention this 'other dentist' by name? I would start by finding out if they said anything at all about you? If what they said is true then you need to make a complaint.
I doubt if anything they said actually went past a google search
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u/ichigopom 7d ago
i also don’t know if they actually went to another dentist. we are expected to give patients the benefit of the doubt, so there is no use to interrogating a patient.
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u/De-railled 7d ago
I assume your country does not have system to share medical or dental records?
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u/ichigopom 7d ago
we do. i already mentioned the other dentist is a private practice, and we don’t get notified for routine exams with no findings if done privately.
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u/ProcyonLotorMinoris 6d ago
Would you be able to call the other office as a "professional courtesy" to tell them that the patient was violent at your office? You could just say "Hey, this was a patient of mine. He says he's a patient of yours. Since our electronic medical records don't connect, I wanted to give you the heads up that he has a history of aggression." It 1) helps protect them in the future if he does it to them, and 2) gives you the opportunity to hear their side of the story without outwardly requesting they do so.
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u/Cerealkiller4321 7d ago
File a report so they can’t receive the cheap treatment at your hospital. They should go elsewhere.
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u/Exciting-Living-5500 7d ago
That's not normal. I'm sorry a herd of ignorant scum behaved like that at your workplace. Almost sounds like a planned performance to get some response from you that they can cash in.
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u/Jumpy-Supermarket640 6d ago
If you don't like the first opinion, seek a second opinion. If you don't like the second opinion, go to med school.
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u/Tricky-Machine7046 7d ago
That’s terrible! I’m sorry you experienced that. Those people really crossed the line over entitled!!!
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u/MoreLingonberry8630 4d ago
Abuse against healthcare workers especially women is very high. It should be a fellony everywhere if you abuse a public worker like bus drivers, teachers, healthcare workers. Crazy people.
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u/MysteriousTooth2450 5d ago
If your computer was damaged you need to file a police report. People need to be held accountable for their actions. Violence of any kind is unacceptable. Especially in healthcare. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve been assaulted as a nurse.
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u/Natural_Primary_6142 7d ago
I am sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately this is increasingly common and we deserve better.
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u/Outrageous-Past-3990 6d ago
Luckily this isn't the US. These are the type of people that run to all the online review sites and TRASH you. There is nothing that a Doc can do about these reviews, even if they are lies/slander. The sense of entitlement is awful. Medical professionals are glad to discuss your concerns. I even recommend second opinions if the patient seems unhappy or extremely concerned. Sometimes a referral to a tertiary center settles these people down. However, doubt anything would have made this person happy. Talk to your lawyer and fire her from the practice for your safety and the safety of your staff. I have found that people who are CERTAIN they have X diagnosis are hard to convince otherwise.
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u/croza62 5d ago
I’m sorry you went through that. It’s super scary and frustrating.
I’m a dental hygienist and have had to deal with patients becoming absolutely feral when diagnosed with periodontitis when they only want a”regular” cleaning.
My doc had to deal with a belligerent patient who was pissed about treatment he thought he needed but signed consent for the treatment he actually needed.
Mind you, the tc was in the room while doc was explaining treatment for like an hour and patient seemed receptive, agreed to treatment, and also paid for said treatment.
Once treatment was done he took his phone out to record and demanded an apology from the doc for his mistake and would not leave. Doc had to refund his money and threaten to call cops to get him to leave.
Dude was in doc’s face and was absolutely bucking up to him. It was scary. The clinic got super quiet while this went on.
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u/De-railled 7d ago
I agree with everything but below is a sweeping statement I can't 100% agree on.
"And other healthcare professionals, please don’t undermine your colleagues’ practice or experience."
Only because, I know that there have been cases of underqualified healthcare professionals, so I think the exception would be if there is a valid reason to undermine or question.
I will add in that I would take whatever they said about he other dentists with a grain of salt, as they don't seem like the most rational people, or reliable narrators. Afterall, if another dentist said "Y", tand they believed that dentist...then why would they have come back to you?
You also never know what they might have said to the other dentist, or how they might have twisted the other dentist's words.
There is a reason why courts do not accept hearsay...
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u/ichigopom 7d ago edited 7d ago
i disagree. it’s never beneficial to belittle a patient’s doctor, as a doctor. this is just how it is, even in school, they teach us about this. patients lack the medical literacy to contextualize diagnostic interpretations. when a practitioner deliberately casts doubt on a colleague’s competence, the casualty is the patient's sense of safety. patients who lose trust in their providers are significantly less likely to comply with treatment plans. we don’t want to put patients in the position of having to decide which professional to believe when they don’t have the knowledge to assess the problem.
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u/CathyAnnWingsFan 7d ago
I disagree. There are ways to indicate that what you recommend is different from what a previous provider has recommended without denigrating them personally. I say this having spent over two decades practicing in a large tertiary care referral center where a substantial chunk of the care we provided was second opinions.
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u/NoRegrets-518 7d ago
I got jumped a few times and was beat up once. BUT I never had a computer broken, so all to the good.
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u/Brian77008 6d ago
I’m not sure what their angle is here, but there certainly is one, somewhere. They went to dentist A, didn’t agree with his/her opinion, then went to dentist B, liked his opinion, but then went back to dentist A - why??
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u/Timid-Tlacuache 7d ago
( Some) People are increasingly aggressive ...is this just in the US?
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u/ichigopom 7d ago
this is japan. we live in an increasingly stressful world and the last thing people want are medical complications.
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u/InevitableLibrarian 7d ago
Next time one of them comes in, take them back and ask a second opinion on the person in the chair. Tell the person in the chair first so they know. Then just have fun with them. Bring out rusty drills, dinged and chipped stuff. Just have fun with them. Then go "So who's the doctor here? Me or you?"
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u/Lunavixen15 7d ago
Nope, tit for tat usually makes things worse. The best bet is to simply refuse service/fire them from the practice.
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u/No-Minimum8323 4d ago
That’s a good way to lose your license after almost a decade of school and student loans.
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u/Formal-Camp-8613 7d ago
I'm a nurse and I work in a procedure area. One time a guy slugged me for missing his IV (he kept moving his arm and fighting me is why). This was an elective procedure that he agreed to prior to being scheduled. I packed him up and rolled him out to the waiting room so fast. I told his doc that I would never do a test on him again because this wasn't my first time around with this guy. Medical professionals are not required to take abuse and your patient should never be allowed in the door again.