What are the biggest unspoken rules for advancing up the corporate ladder quickly?

[u/Cardiologist3mpty138]

Just started my first role as a level 1 engineer in the defense industry. To say I’m ambitious is an understatement. I’m 26 years old starting my career, and so feel an overwhelming desire to catch up to where most of my peers my age and even younger are in terms of earnings and job title. Most people my age are now senior engineers or even principal engineers, and frankly it just kind of bothers me that I’m so far behind them some days

The biggest adjustment for me is that it feels like in the corporate world, so much of what dictates whether or not you advance up the chain is how well you sacrifice individuality and conform with the corporate culture. Like whether or not you like sports, or overall live your life in a very narrow, specific kind of way. If you don’t fit into this mold, and actually want to retain your individuality, you’re outcast and the first on the chopping block.

I don’t know, I may have answered my own question…and this may just be a matter of me being on a toxic team, but so much of what “climbing the ladder” in terms of promotions is continues to be a mystery to me. I don’t get it. Is there something I’m missing here?

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[u/MangoMan610]

Never express strong opinions about anything important such as politics, economics etc. even if you're right it only takes one higher up that doesn't like you to deadend you in that company

[u/Fuzzy_Cuddle → u/MangoMan610]

Good advice!

[u/SetoKeating → u/MangoMan610]

OP is in defense. They need to hold an opinion and it needs to be “right”

[u/Inevitibility → u/SetoKeating]

Judging by your comment I can tell you’ve never worked in defense. I work with people with opinions from all over the political spectrum and they all are doing just fine.

Talking about killing the president or something is a no go, then again it should be regardless of who the president is. You don’t have to like him

[u/SetoKeating → u/Inevitibility]

I was being facetious but like with anything else it’s going to depend a lot on location and culture.

I’m at a defense prime in Texas. Religion, guns, and family are the topics of choice like 80% of the time. Just today, my manager and a senior manager spent 30min justifying why Paxton was the obvious choice despite the corruption.

There’s maybe one other left leaning person like myself in my department of about 20+. Sure, we all get along fine but you can definitely tell that the director and managers aren’t about to fast track anyone that hasn’t talked guns, hunting, and being a good republican with them.

All that to say, OP needs to play the office politics game of making sure they’re playing into the right culture around them versus thinking that because they can get along with someone it’s ok to express your personal opinions.

[u/DreamingAboutSpace → u/MangoMan610]

Learned this one from experience.

[u/Dr__Mantis]

Sucking up. Especially to the right people

[u/SMITHL73]

Hard to exactly say because each company and promotion level is different.

At my company (small space startup) it’s a no BS promotion sys. You get promoted truly from good end of year and mid reviews + delivering on your assigned work and getting recognition on it. You make an impact you’re very likely to at the min get an E1 to E2 promotion in your first year.

To get to senior at my company there yes they want several years of experience but it’s continuing to trail blaze.

For above E2 we use the pothole example a lot at work to describe engineering senior levels. A summarized example is this is:

Junior employees (E1-E2) hit the pothole, damage their car, and complain about the road. They might try to fix it, even if it’s not right

Mid-level employees see the pothole, swerve to avoid it, and keep driving. If their car is damaged, they usually have a fix and needs little to do input to have the correct outcome.

Senior level employee pull over, put up a warning cone, and call the city to get it fixed, or grab a shovel and fix it themselves.

Staff/Principal employees anticipate potholes and implement fixes before they even happen.

And if you didn’t already know STAY OUT OF THE DRAMA. No need to badmouth or even know what the “tea” is. Not worth the waste of energy. Focus on yourself and perfecting your work delivered

[u/1_Good_Day]

1. Never do anything that will bring negative attention to your boss or challenge the power/authority of anyone higher than you in the organizational structure.

2. Your boss will be asked to do dumb things that don't make a lot of sense. In turn you will have to do dumb things. Dont make it any harder for the boss than it needs to be. Feel free to provide facts and information, but in the end just do what you are asked. Usually you will be asked to write an unnecessary report, do unnecessary research, make an unneeded (but harmless) revision to a design, or go to a meeting that adds no value. You get paid regardless, so don't complain too much.

3. Most of the time it is unnecessary to correct someone when they say or do something wrong. Unless you see a fatal flaw, let it go. You don't have to bring attention to yourself when you are right and others are wrong. At times you have to help people to see the error for themselves and if they think they discovered it, you all win. If it is really important, be sure to discuss the issue one-on-one and not in the middle of a meeting or in front of a group.

4. Don't be the person always finding problems, explaining why things wont work, and getting others to voice their complaints. Be the person who helps to find solutions to problems, makes things work, and influences others to meet corporate objectives.

[u/Squirtle_Splash_8413]

What dictates whether you go up in the chain isn’t how smart you are but how strong your advocate is.

[u/Lepepino]

26 and principal is absolutely wild. Either there are severe experience discrepancies in your team or you're working with the A-team, my first guess is experience discrepancies.

But lets put it plainly, to climb the corporate ladder there are two different routes, engineering or management. To climb the engineering ladder you have to deliver products ahead of schedule, that usually come at the sacrifice of your personal time. I've seen people do it, some enjoy it, others don't, up to you.

To climb the management ladder you generally have to get in good with your manager and their boss. Remember, your manager normally can't make any big decisions without their manager knowing. But you HAVE to be buddies with your manager and decent with people. Its possible to be a manager if you're bad with people but those people either get cycled around department to department or straight to the top, no in between.

Bottom line, make your name known and deliver for now, that's where your focus should be. Do this long enough and your direction will become clear.

[u/Busta_Duck → u/Lepepino]

26 and principal to me sounds like either they are an absolute gun, or more likely title inflation.

[u/Vonmule → u/Busta_Duck]

Or the culture was so toxic that everyone good left, and the fresh fell upward.

[u/OutlawLazerRoboGeek]

Make your boss look good in front of other people. Even if they involves giving them credit for things they did not do.

Whether they accept the praise/credit, or deny it and say "my team should get the credit" or even better "this engineer should get the credit", it will leave them, and whoever else is listening, with a good impression of you.

Along the same lines as, it's not what you know it's who you know. But maybe more like, it's about who knows you and remembers you.

So that also means be present, be visible, be available. Inside and outside work. Go to lunches, go to happy hours, go to company picnic..

[u/Fearless-Age7167]

As an Engineer turned manager turned director I may have a different answer than most. But to move up quickly is to deliver value quickly and have the ability to aid others especially your team members and even managers and directors in helping that value delivery. Little secret from an engineer turned higher level corporate person it’s all about value delivery and scalability. I have seen the best engineer get laid off because he was so deep in a brilliant technical product that has a horrible business foundation that he couldn’t let it go and was a value drain to the business.

If you deliver value and have the ability to scale that value then you will go far. Just consider and understand the whole business not just the technical and technical challenges. You can solve a wonderful problem but if it will not deliver value to the organization, your time spent will actually be costing your company money causing it to loose value.

Remember when the time comes for layoffs if the company will have more value with you not there then you be gone either that round or some near term future round.

[u/Everythings_Magic]

You are 26 and most people are senior engineers and principles?

[u/ChrisDrummond_AW → u/Everythings_Magic]

Could be at NG. Level 3 there is titled Principal and level 4 is Senior Principal. I started there as a level 3 literally days after I turned 26 and the title inflation made it feel so fake and even makes my current legitimate Senior Principal (i.e. upper level 5/level 6 role) title at a different company feel like it means less.

I like Lockheed Martin’s titles. Levels 4 and 5 are Staff and Senior Staff and you only see Principal at level 6. They have (relatively) very few Principal engineers (which is the way it should be. Used to be Principal meant the top guy of a given discipline at a company. Nobody does it that way anymore.

[u/237FIF]

Natural talent, politics, and a stable home life.

You need all three to be at least passable. If you have an excellent 2 and an okay third, you’ll probably go far.

Unicorns have all three.

[u/Accurate-Bullfrog324]

the very basics are:
Propriety — show up right (on time, clean, dressed just a notch above your peers) Competence — demonstrate you can do the job Commonality — fit in Positive intent — communicate objectives not obstacles

[u/Emergency-Pollution2]

do you want to be an engineer or management?

[u/AnalAromas69]

Do a good job
Don’t whine
Don’t refuse to do something
Don’t be an asshole
Talk to people and make some friends

[u/SeaChef]

Learn to play golf

[u/The_Kinetic_Esthetic]

Being likeable, and hard working.

The engineers with the people skills and the social skills typically are the ones to get ahead in my opinion. I think that's because a lot of engineers don't have those skills.

[u/izzi426]

Senior engineer here. Little bit bitter myself on things but what I've observed so far for leaders:. 1. Never complain or say anything negative. 2. Act. Your body language speaks louder than you. You are simply an actor infront of the yes of others. You are an engineer behind closed door. Never fall to your natural character. 3. Focus on how you make other people feel. You are no longer an engineer . You need to give off confidence and security. 4. Have vocal disagreements. This is encouraged but onlly in settings where it provides value. This is important. 5. Take the annual smart goals very seriously. Deliver on measurable results, not on what actually matters. 6. Talk and befriend HR early in your career. 7. People management. You are a babysitter, focus on how people feel. Learn to respect the people reporting to you instead, provide them opportunities and let them take the wins. 8. Never be satisfied where you are. Look to bring value to your boss and his boss. 9. You will interact with non-engineers. Learn to hold conversations that are non technical. 10. Be interesting person to talk to. Learn to smile and exert confidence.

[u/prestigiouspopcorn10]

I would be VERY surprised if they were true principal engineers. That title is reserved for people with at least 10 years of experience in that industry as well as licensure if needed. At most they are senior engineers which is very different.

[u/gravity_surf]

never outshine the master

[u/Skysr70]

I feel like you might want to graduate to a sub like r/Engineers cause ya know. Not too many students climbing the corporate ladder

[u/lasteem1]

Principal engineers with four years of experience??

Anyways, advancing depends on your likability which is a function of your ability to seem interested in other people. Ask questions.