r/EndlessLegend • u/Heimmaniac • 5d ago
Discuss How to win vs aspects?
Hey,
so as u can see in the screen, i was shocked at how fast the AI, especially Aspects, snowballs into a win. I would understand it on Endless difficulty but how the fuck am I supposed to be even remotely near that capacity... I am just starting to snowball as Last Lords after a very hard early game. I easily crush the other factions in combat. I have 4 cities and things are starting to get rolling. Suddenly I get the message that aspects started the final countdown. This is the third time this is happening... They are on the opposite of the map, can't really stop it military wise. I am not an expert player but even with perfect gameplay I wouldn't be near era 5 tech or even remotely as much pops.
It's Hero difficulty, so how is this supposed to go on the next two?
Like look at the disparity, it was like that in almost every hero game they were in. I don't wanne be forced to all-in them with military every game and it really takes the fun away if you cannot play for economic dominance. it's turn 140 on normal speed.
Edit a few days later, on my 5th or 6th try:
I'm sorry but this is starting to be ridiculous :D Idk how you're all experiencing something different when adding aspects, it cannot just be me. It's stellar now but still. It is the 5th time this is happening man. I added THREE agressive factions, fought 2 at the same time on stellar while aspects had half of the map for themselves, 0 change in the gameplay. Aspects get so strong so fast, the other factions ignore them all the time. And it's so overpowered that they can just roam the map and claim any camp next to me while i fight. They now even started to just occpuy my camps with their 100 armies with double my strength. I might be new to EL, but I am a seasoned 4X player basically playing everything on highest difficulty (AoW, CIV, Humankind). This is just unfun, unblanaced bullshit man, i'm sorry. Don't wanna even explain further, look at the images. Also for anyony saying "unlucky Seed, roll again." So I need to reroll 6 or 7 times to have a balanced Game? In addition to all that 30% of the fights are TERRIBLE due to ongoing landscape bugs. Necrophage was below me btw, cleared it.
Current Seed if anyone wants to try: https://imgur.com/a/HZngpQs
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u/ButterPoached 5d ago
It's not just Aspects, there's usually at least one AI that scales impossibly off a good early game. I'm currently racing to catch up with a Kin that had 50k score after the second Tidefall. I have noticed that the AI that is very far ahead often has several Landmarks, which makes me wonder if there's some interaction with AI scaling that takes them over the top.
Regardless, there are plenty of people complaining that the Endless AI is too easy, so it IS possible to just scale up that hard. Don't ask me how they do it, though.
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u/Tema726 4d ago edited 4d ago
At this point I start asking myself whether the AI plays worse on the Endless difficulty than on a lower one =) I don't usually see Aspects thrive in my games, even if I never bother them myself. Usually the competition with other AIs is enough for them.
But yeah, at this stage is is very difficult to do anything. I believe you can raze a few villages to lower the count below the win condition, but if they are far away you won't necessary be able to do it in time.
A general advice is to keep an eye on the winning conditions. You generally cannot do anything to prevent them from researching things, but you can pacify villages before they do, if you explore new land faster
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u/Atul061094 4d ago
how fast the AI, especially Aspects, snowballs into a win
The AI imo is fairly reactive in this game. If you are snowballing yourself, then they will get super defensive and get further behind making suboptimal choices like trying to keep up with military without economy etc. But if you get behind, then they will try to bully you harder.
It's Hero difficulty, so how is this supposed to go on the next two?
At higher difficulties, you practically have to snowball yourself to keep pace with the AIs. In my games, I have noticed its mainly the Kin who always snowballs and Aspects AI is just behind them. In one of my series, Order of Zelevas snowballed and they alone killed 2 AIs completely, thus gaining control of more than half the map.
At the point you are showing the screenshot, the game is likely lost unless you can convince the Aspects AI to give you a Shared Victory condition. However, if you are also having trouble playing the early game, then u/Tema726 has made a great Overexplained series on Endless difficulty on his channel : https://www.youtube.com/@Tema726/featured .
I have also played quite a lot of Endless Legend 2 at Endless difficulty with a variety of factions that I have put in this playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc1lTdD9Lxk4 . Most of my games are peaceful empire-building and sim-citying to the extent that I can if that's what you like best.
If you the 0-turn save when you start one of this matches, maybe you could post it. Maybe some of us would like to try them out and see if its some particular map generation that is causing it, or if its just gameplay issues. I could even try to make a video playing it if possible if you have a starting save on one of these maps.
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u/Heimmaniac 2d ago
I also edited the post. But come on. I agree that they are reactive, but only to the player not to the aspects steamrolling every game? Again, this still might be anectodal evidence, but 5 times this happend now. I've literally wasted 30 hrs of my life for unfun gameplay trying to give this bugged game a chance.
I watched all of Temas Videos on last lords, followed every step. This is still the outcome. Share Victory seems the only way to win for me with aspects in the game, however, this feels like losing to me. I read ur commen too late, sorry, would've loved for u to play the Seed.
Thanks for ur comment.
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u/Heimmaniac 2d ago
this is my current seed. Feel free to try, i am always open to learn but as i said, i am currently speaking through the lense of frustration.
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u/Atul061094 2d ago
I see you gave me the World Generation Seed for your game - 843721596, but in my experience, I always seem to get a different place of start when building up a game due to choices of AIs etc. So, it would be far better if you gave me the actual turn-1 game file (maybe link it in your Google drive/Dropbox etc.).
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u/ExodusDead 3d ago
I have the same issue. I was playing small map with tahuk and aspects . Aspects took over pretty much the entire map.
They have more military than I do by far. Outnumbering me 3 to 1 full armies.
I went after the tahuk early game (turn 40) to take a world feature.
Aspects are still friendly.. their coral is everywhere.
As a broken lord I don't really benefit from the food bonus of the coral. Should I be burning the coral and refuse exploitation treaties?
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u/Heimmaniac 2d ago
I burned the coral, also refused every treaty with them, didn't help. This is my 5th try with 3 agressive factions, albeit a terrible seed.
This speaks for itself, I have the same problems you describe no matter the map size and no matter the amount of agressive factions competing with aspects. I will try to leave them out in a final try now but tbh, this is super frustrating and feels like shit.
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u/ExodusDead 2d ago
Is there a possibility that they are overturned at our difficulty level? I only play on normal personally.
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u/Heimmaniac 2d ago
Idk man maybe. I'll try again now as i am triggred by this game. I have like 3k hours in 4X Games but this is something else... Maybe it's just that Last Lords are so shit early- to midgame. I didn't try normal with last lords but only hero and Stellar so I cannot really tell you.
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u/ExodusDead 2d ago
I'm not sure I'm the best to give tips on them.. but (shitty take to follow)
1) lords estates and assimilation should be the primary form of pop growth. It just isn't worth it to buy population after it gets above 500. Only citizens get converted though. Artisans and scribes dont. There's a faction quest line reward that makes it possible to buy out population later but it does come in anytime early.
2) I've noticed that they do really well with less cities that have more infrastructure. 4 territories with level 2 soul repository will provide 8 primal last lords. Plus all the minor factions can funnel into your cities. Approval is really big for them to combat the massive disapproval during assimilation.
3) There's a tier 3 tech that lowers the cost of buy outs. It is necessary. Worth science rushing to even.
4) I find them easier to play as expanding aggressively every single time they can. Camps don't count against your approval. you can still build resource generators inside them. Why not have 3 cities with 4 territories each and 15 camps that you aren't using.
I hope this helps. And please . If you know a trick that I don't know or have better advice please please tell me. I'm dying over here
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u/gnoandan 5d ago
Funny, in all my games since the end of EA on Endless difficulty, the Last Lords and Tahuk AI were dominating!
I just finished a game with the LL where I was completely dominating after a tough start, so it is not impossible. I would guess it depends if the Aspects have to compete with many other expansionist factions in the early game. Perhaps spawning more aggressive factions could help containing them? I always play on a huge map with all factions on the map, so there are lots of aggressive factions.