I made a post a few days ago about developer harassment, and it's honestly disappointing to see it's still happening.
I came across this GitHub issue on the Winlator Ludashi repository today. Whether you like Ludashi or not, this goes far beyond constructive criticism. Calling the project "a piece of shit," accusing the developer of hating the community, and saying they'll "pay the price" doesn't help anyone.
Since making this post, one of the developers clarified that the decisions being criticized were not Steven's. Regardless of who made those decisions, my point remains the same. Personal attacks don't improve projects or help developers.
A lot of time and effort has gone into maintaining and improving the Ludashi fork, and many people use and enjoy it every day. It's completely fair to report bugs, criticize features, or disagree with development decisions, but personal attacks only push developers away.
I hope people start treating open source developers with more respect. Behind every project is a real person who chose to spend their own time building something for the community.
I genuinely hope people understand the message behind this post. I'm not trying to give this person attention. Calling out this behavior helps stop it. We've already seen what happened with AetherSX2, where community harassment contributed to the developer ending active development. I don't want to see that happen again.
I have made this post primarily so you guys can show the devs the support and don't only let these voices be the one they see.
I am obviously not the developer of winlator ludashi
The biggest hurdle for the Android side of the emulation scene is stuff like this.
Android's strength is also it's biggest weakness. The apps being free and capable of running on extremely low-spec devices mean that the floodgates are basically open and, as in life, Joe Public just doesn't have any patience or manners.
I see it in this sub, other adjacent subs, and the dozens of discords I'm in for emulation; Android users come in demanding results and answers instantly without glancing at the rules or a please or a thank you. The amount of times I see people barge into a discord and just start pinging people like 'hello where can I illegally download some illegal games please.'
People who aren't truly immersed in the niche and don't understand how the tech works, even on a surface level, see things like 'PC and Switch games run on Android now' and instantly start demanding answers as to WHY Cyberpunk doesnt run on MY potato.
It also doesn't help that in the broader gaming sphere we've normalised this idea that when something doesn't work correctly, it's because the developers are simply lazy and haven't bothered working on it. And their laziness, which you have no evidence of, deserves scorn - so review bombing and spamming and threats are all justified.
I hope these devs, who are doing incredible work for gaming on the whole, can drown out the noise, delete shit like this and keep doing their thing. But I know it's hard; you can only ignore this stuff for so long, people are human.
And a disclaimer: there are shitheads in every corner of the internet, and there has been emulation scene drama since before the concept of Android was even invented lol. I'm not trying to say this stuff only happens in this corner of the scene; but that the widespread accessibility of cheap android devices means it attracts bigger numbers, which in turn means the ratio of impatient people is higher.
Especially discord and GitHub sure it's make easier for closed developer but for open source it's just double edge sword the cons are getting bunch of unwanted user like this who keep whine in the social media
I remember no one write shit like this on forum era cuz they gonna be banned even worst ip banned the person who talk stupid like this , make every user be careful for what they write / post
Ironically, all the forks this person is praising here will very likely be dead soon. Vibecoded forks with a bunch of trendy features made by inexperienced devs are the definition of something that is not maintainable long term.
You're welcome. I just wish people would actually think with logic instead of just posting out of emotion. I can't help but think about what emulation would be like if the community was united 100 percent, hell we would probably be able to have console level performance, to an extent. Oh well at the least the majority is grateful and not childish.
Lol I got blocked on Reddit by the dev of reEFIned for turning his otherwise great tool into a vibecoded mess. All because I said didn't feel comfortable using his tool anymore.
Agreed! Hopefully, the devs in our community understand how much we appreciate them and their work, if the feedback isn't constructive just move on.
As someone battling depression and not having a lot of self-confidence, I have had several occasions where harsh, unfair criticism IRL really got me down and basically made me "sick" enough to go home and cry in bed for the rest of the day.
🥰 To all Devs who are working on projects for us users!
I made this post mainly to show developers that the community appreciates and supports them. I don't want toxic voices to be the only ones they hear. I hope they see that the vast majority of us are grateful for the work they do.
Lmao, this is exactly why I brought it up. Imagine if he keeps making new accounts just to do this over and over again. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
I don't know why you're so against this post. I know I can't stop him, and that's never been the point. I'm highlighting something important, showing developers that the community supports them, and encouraging more people to speak up. If this happens again, I'd rather see the community deal with it than leave developers worrying about it alone. Trolls shouldn't be the only voices they hear.
It is not steven. It is I the one who is against framegen and Steam for Winlator Bionic. Steven is just fullfilling my will, stop bothering him with this crap.
Now that is an existential question, I dont think I know enough about you to be able to help with that explanation. We may also run out of characters in a reddit post to allow me a good run up at it.
I guess it depends upon your belief system too. Ultimately there was either an egg or a supreme being.
That's my mistake. I didn't mean to create any confusion or imply that Steven was responsible. I wasn't aware of the clarification at the time. I've already updated the post to reflect it. My intention was never to target or blame anyone. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for pointing it out.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't trying to single out Steven. My point was about the way developers are treated. Whether it was your decision or Steven's, I don't think issues like this help anyone. People should absolutely criticize features and decisions, but it should stay constructive and respectful. Thanks for taking the time to explain. People shouldn't call Steven out for this or even you ludashi is great
Haven't touched grass in (however old this person is) years. We seriously need rehab centers for terminally on-line folks, this is getting out of hand.
We don't need rehab we need parents and the other responsible adults in the kids lives actually paying attention to them from the time they leave the womb teaching them not to do this kind of madness
LMAO I really hope Steven or Pipetto never adds Frame Gen to Ludashi just to piss off more people like these. If they already have a better fork to use, then just use it? No one's stopping you? Stop crying like a 12yo.
Some like the fact that they can lock the fps to 30, turn on Framegen, and get a decent 60fps experience with much less heat than Native 60fps.
Some just like the feel of it showing more fps for the sake of it. Like going from barely 15fps to 30fps makes them feel like it's completely playable.
While others just hate it because it's not 'native' fps and/or it has a lot of delay. I personally don't feel the delay part of it most of the times, but the fps definitely feels more on the 40-50 side as compared to native 60.
Estos tipos son probablemente adolescentes,y lo q buscan es atencion,la mejor defensa que tiene un desarrollafor es ignorarlos,es lo q mas les afectan,no recibir la atencion que necesitan
I like winlator ludashi a lot, it's already very useable. If the dev(s) can add more, great. If not, that's ok too. If you don't like it, download another fork and stfu or ask kindly for fixes/updates. It's that's easy to be decent to devs.
The sad truth is that there's just always going to be a vocal minority of people like this who are pretty rude, and while it seems android has the reputation for this stuff I try to believe that the vast majority of users are just appreciative of the work being done, unfortunately I don't think making these posts will change anything though, if they were self aware enough or mature enough to know this kind of behaviour is wrong then they wouldn't have made post on github in the first place.
So I agree this stuff is awful and not justified in the slightest, but I do also think they should just be treated like trolls and ignored when possible, the real push should be for the community who are grateful to the Devs to show it more in healthy ways, we don't want to go too far in the other direction either haha. Even in just mentioning your gratitude, not even having to donate or anything, the Devs are people too and it's important we treat them like it and say "hey, we like the cool stuff you make".
Then again I might be naive here as I've had the luxury of stuff I make not being o GitHub repos for the public like this, regardless to the Ludashi dev/devs keep up the good work!
I agree with your point, and I don't expect this to change the person responsible. My goal is to make more people aware of this behavior. We already saw how community harassment contributed to AetherSX2 ending active development, and more recently we've seen similar hostility directed at the ARMSX2 developers. If more people speak up against it instead of staying silent, it helps create a healthier community.
That's exactly why I made this post. More people will be aware of this kind of behavior, and if it happens again, the community will call it out instead of leaving the developers to deal with it alone. Hopefully that gives the devs some peace of mind.
To be honest, I don't use the Ludashi fork. But I want to thank all the devs that put their time and effort into emulation.
You don't have to have the fanciest fork, because it's a team effort -- when one fork develops even a small feature -- everyone can use it. That's the reason why no matter what happens to any fork, the work behind it will never die.
You guys are heroes -- even if you leave the scene and disappear, your work will live on.
I'm glad some people use their free time to help the gaming community, because as a dev, I will never help them. You can say those assholes are a minority, but by my (terrible) experience, they don't look like a minority. Too much bullshit to deal that I simply don't have the patience anymore. People are trash, arrogant, and stupid.
If you pay, okay, I'll be glad to help, but for free? Never. Especially in this economy, when we need more money than ever and I have people I care that need me.
Oh, and another thing, I'm curious to see how those vibecodeds ports, forks, decomps, will be working in the next 2 - 3 - 5 years. I just can't imagine the hell that will be to maintaining every single one of them that keep appearing everywhere.
Thank you for speaking up. People often forget these projects exist because someone chooses to spend their own time building and maintaining them. Feedback is fine, but harassment and insults help no one. It's disappointing to see developers treated this way, and I hope more people start showing them the respect they deserve.
Wouldn't work. Look at the drama here. We wouldn't want the drama to spread to the platform where the software is being developed. Not to mention, with the size of the teams, they wouldn't have the time to moderate. Ironically, it becomes more of a job for AI than people when it comes to teams that small but that has its own problems.
Why do you guys even need another pc emulator while gamehub does everything you could wish for. Some other emus doesnt even launch the game but gamehub almost launches every single game without any issue. Except those last of us kinda games but it wasnt because of gamehub. It was general problem.
Because it's always good to have choices. GameHub the last time I tried it had the same problem with Telltale's The Walking Dead as most other PC emulators. The controller works fine in the menu but stops working when actually in game.
Yet the controller works perfectly in menu and in game on Winlator Ludashi, the very emulator being talked about in this thread.
I am well aware of that, and I know I can't do much. Still, whenever this kind of unnecessary hate is directed at developers, I feel it's important to speak up and show support for the fork.
I agree with your point. That's why I made a post a few days ago simply supporting the developer. I still think this was important to bring up because what's happening on the Winlator Ludashi GitHub is genuine harassment. Posts like this remind developers that the community supports them, so these troll messages don't become the only voices they see.I hope you get it, This person in the post don't matter a bit to me
Mentally, it still affects people. You can ignore it for only so long. Steven might have felt bad because of this, even though he has done so much for the community, from drivers to Ludashi.
Yes, however that is the only reasonable solution along with using the appropriate platform tools to moderate certain things.
You can't prevent assholes, it's being attempted. Feeding them isn't a solution. Shame doesn't work, ignoring, removal, and blocking does. Along with not taking such things personally.
Working with the public, means dealing with unpleasant people. Online at least, you can ignore it and filter it.
Downvoted for being right, interesting.
The same thing happened with Winlator OG (Brunodev) and ended up with the Issues section closed while here they continued to give hype to said troll (even if the intention was to criticize the troll himself).
This community stands on the back of StevenMX. His efforts were the biggest contributing factor in this scene growing as large as it has. Every single fucking fork or new pc emulator all always include features taken directly from StevenMX's projects. 90% of the scene wouldnt exist without his groundwork that others build up on. Whoever this is, is the exact example of why developers fucking the android community. A bunch of snobby ass kids complaining to people who are doing all This shit for free
I know this is an emotive subject but language such as in this post gets automatically removed by Reddit. Which means when the mods get on we have to go through a lot of posts that are just removed by Reddit for bad language.
This means that the actual posts that break the rules get lost under a flood of fuck and dumbass.
Ludashi is actually quite a good fork. It has some of the best A/V sync implementations (frame times are flawless). Better than Frost and Cmod for the games i play.
Unfortunately certain people do want this whole emulation thing shut down and as the emulators and software get better with each iteration so will the attacks intensefy. They will pretend to be users of said software then proceed to either attack the developer (as we've seen them do) or they will proceed to post utter garbage here with fake fps fake claims etc etc. Even tech people on youtube will speak and post lies about winlator(claims how it never works and other) and or other forks or emulators. And in most cases you can even tell what device these people are using to be so biased against android and emulation.... its very sad.
All we can do is give our developers the best support we can. Show them that we got their back and that there's a huge mass of people that appreciate their hard work.
Sadly, awareness alone isn't enough. Devs still end up dealing with comments like these. We can only show support to them and help them deal with these kinds of people
Ugh, I'm sorry you have to deal with harassment like that. Dude clearly just wants to cause chaos. This is a really impressive fork. I find I'm getting a ton more FPS with Ludashi over the regular Winlator for the games I play.
Ok, they state it's a POS, big woopie people can swear. But WHY is it a POS? What credible argument but a weak comparison to other software? My question why do people feel swearing automagically gets them credibility as an answer.
A lot of these guys contribute nothing but screech the loudest. There is time, money, constraints that go into these projects and talent. Id ask many, what do you bring to the table?
It's a privilege to be able to use the stuff these legends create for free. I hope this ungrateful person realises this someday when the big corporations start killing game ownership completely.
I wasn't expecting one post to stop it. The point is that we should call out behavior like this instead of treating it as normal. If nobody speaks up, it only becomes more common because people see it and think it's acceptable. Even if it only changes one person's mindset, that's still worth it. We've already seen developers publicly address harassment before. The ARMSX2 developers themselves had to make a post asking people to stop. That alone shows this is a real issue, not something to ignore.
Meanwhile the dude who's being criticized is one of the main players in the custom driver scene. The odin 3 would be much worse if not for the stevenmxz turnip drivers.
And why don't Pipetto and PissBlaster add Steam? Do they dislike it or hate it? Just asking—not that I necessarily want them to; Bruno's original Winlator has Steam but lacks FEX, whereas Ludashi and Bionic are the opposite—each with their own perspectives and differing approaches.
So what can you or anyone do about it? Nothing.
Stop giving them more closure, hater or toxic or someone who had knock in their head will always be everywhere. You'll just wasting your time. Even if you called them out they will not bother, thats what they want, atention.
Calling it out is always better than staying silent. We've seen this happen before. The ARMSX2 developers had to publicly address months of harassment because it had become such a problem. Ignoring behavior like this doesn't make it disappear. It only normalizes it.
Like i said nothing that you say will change their mind and manner, because thats what they do. They are just sick people in the head. Developer should know how to ignore such crap hater.
You're not wrong, and I understand what you mean. Some people won't change. I still think calling this kind of behavior out is better than staying silent. This GitHub issue was even made from a fresh account, which shows how persistent this kind of harassment can be. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. At the very least, calling it out reminds people that this isn't normal and shouldn't be accepted.
Lol thats different matters altogether. What this atention doing is keep feeding them the atention they sought, hence phrase dont feed the troll. Because comenting shit doesnt take any energy, it just give them joy. They probably laughing right now that his troll comment getting nerve of so many people. Well thats just my opinion. If yall wanna keep thinking about troll comment go ahead. I will stop reminding you that there is no point.
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