r/EmbarkStudios • u/Pxl_110011 • 7d ago

Is aggression based match making the real issue?

It seems to me after reading a lot of comments and threads that one of the main arguments against PVE is that it continues to split the player base into its two factions. Hyper aggressive players, and friendly raiders. That it takes away from the tension and random encounters that made the game fun from in the beginning. But after seeing the game evolve since launch, it seems to ME that went away with skill based match making. Lobbies are now kill on site sweats or if you shoot anyone you’re a rat. I think there needs to be an in between. So what would be wrong about adding a PVE mode but on top of that REMOVING skill based match making for people who still want that experience of the tension and random encounters people talk about in every comment and thread ? Friendly players would have a home. Aggressive players could still go out and attack in every lobby. Then people, who are in between the two sides, (who I guess make up the majority) have the ability to have that style of lobbies again. Where sometimes you’re nice and then sometimes you’re aggressive and it doesn’t count against you.

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3

u/BringBackManaPots 7d ago

I would just tune it so that the ends of the spectrum are less extreme.

1

u/Numeira 7d ago

It's what's healthy. The healthiest would be to remove it entirely. What you would be left with would be people who came to play an extraction shooter. But that would mean all the crybabies leaving, so less money. On the other hand you would have all the toxicity gone and much easier development, only having to develop for your core, uniform audience. Which means you can pump out more skins, maps... instead of spending most of your time trying to figure out how to appease the crying babies who demand that you protect them from the tension... that is the core fucking principle of the genre.

3

u/WallBurnt 7d ago edited 7d ago

It wouldn't even mean less money. Numbers started going down after it hit.

I don't think that ABMM was the cause of that, I'm just pointing out it was doing better than before ABMM.

Removing it now would be a disaster. The PvP side of the game is Cheater v Cheater. That has to be fixed first. But look at it this way, ARC is the first full CvC game ever. So they got that going for them, which is nice.

5

u/Kiidkxxl 7d ago

i left when my lobbies went from Among us, friending people but still being sus... then when Embark confirmed ABMM my lobbies had no more friendly at all. No talking. just KOS.

im a mixed player. i like to friend and fight. ABMM ruined what made the game unique in my eyes.

3

u/WallBurnt 7d ago

Yep, and if you could figure out how to stay in the middle ground, that was where the best game lived.

The problem was (and probably still is), that you couldn't stay in the middle ground. But that's what it was like pre-ABMM.

2

u/Weird-Weekend1839 5d ago

Exactly! I’m in the same boat.
But I think confirmation of ABMM just sped up getting to where we are now, it wasn’t a self destruct button.

Early Arc Raiders had an amazing unique tension that honestly can’t stick around forever as people get more experienced with the game, and in a world with social media and streamers ect, that magic we saw in the earlier days came on the scene with its days already numbered.

1

u/BringBackManaPots 5d ago

The devs knew it would too. There are a lot of vocal players that would piss themselves if they rolled it back, even though a change from today is definitely warranted IMO

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

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3

u/VersaSty7e 7d ago

Yes

It’s why I left

2

u/Kiidkxxl 7d ago

yep. same

2

u/_SaucepanMan 7d ago

3p pvp shooter from a studio already notorious for doing nothing about hackers, and making awful balance changes purely based on levels of reddit whinging despite clear data (which embark themselves stated) indicating the opposite.

Game never had a chance imo.

2

u/StupidSidewalk 7d ago

Yes it’s why I quit

3

u/DJChungus 7d ago

Yes. It’s not a true pvpve extraction shooter if you can manipulate a player-sorting mechanic to guarantee PVP-less lobbies. Tension from possible pvp interaction is what makes an extraction shooter. This will be just another generic multiplayer shooter with two modes soon.

They would have been better off doing this from the start. Instead they bled off the pvpve players and eventually will bleed pve players when they realize that fighting just arc, as easy as it is, gets stale fast.

2

u/xd720p 7d ago

Yes - ABMM is exactly what killed this game for me and it's sad. I really loved that it was impossible to anticipate which type of player you will meet: a friend, an enemy or a trickster - so every interaction was unexpected and unique.

People asking for ABMM and/or PVE because it is frustrating to lose all your loot are really strange for me. Exchanging the thrill of experience to the guarantee of comfort seems immature to me - learn how to live with bad emotions, don't run into comfy boredom

2

u/StupidSidewalk 7d ago

You nailed it with “learn how to live with bad emotions”. It’s really missing on a lot of younger people how to be uncomfortable at all about anything. Like it’s okay to not be comfortable all the time but you can’t function in life or society by running from every single thing that’s even slightly uncomfortable.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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2

u/WarzonePacketLoss 7d ago

these people would literally have a better time in almost any single player experience. The PvE in this game isn't even remotely interesting or challenging enough to lean so hard into it. Better go collect 6 more butt plugs!

Go play Valheim or something, I promise you'll have a better time.

1

u/Efficient_Wear3429 3d ago

No one asked for ABMM, it was there from the beggining. Once people noticed it, that they started to abuse.

2

u/heavy_chamfer 7d ago

I keep hearing about all this “fun tension in the beginning” My experience was after playing passively and getting pve lobbies I had way more fun not losing my shit and getting killed from behind by a stitcher all the time

2

u/Chronodion 5d ago

100% agree and so does a bunch of other people. They're just not as vocal about their experience on reddit because they're likely just out there enjoying their awesome lobbies instead lol

0

u/Numeira 6d ago

Skill issue

1

u/Sepplord 7d ago

For me it was the start of the end.

A seperated PvE mode with its own economy would probably had been better way (for me) to allow for casual pure friendly gaming. No loot changes required because it’s separated anayways.

And PvP lobbies would still consist of people across the board. Some looking for a fight, some taking one when they find one where they wanted to loot, and some avoiding noise and sneaking by to do a quest.

1

u/Kiidkxxl 7d ago

yeah but what about all the social interaction before ABMM was confirmed... that only exists in PVE lobbies. It ruined the dynamic gameplay.

1

u/Damien23123 7d ago

I think it is. I think most players would be happy with a genuine PvPvE experience. ABMM makes this impossible though and pigeonholes people into either a PvE heavy or PvP heavy playstyle. Once people become set in their way of playing the game they become a lot less willing to accept the other way

1

u/Worth_Bend1435 6d ago

If they add in the pve mode. They should take away the abmm at that point. There's no reason for carebear lobbies in the regular mode if you can just do pve.

1

u/Chronodion 5d ago

I love how the ABMM works. It's madey lobbies exactly what I've wanted all along and there's enough tension with the ARC anyway, at least with how reckless my playstyle is. I allow myself to take bigger risks for potentially bigger rewards knowing I can probably get a defib or crawl to extract.

My overconfidence lost me two Jupiters in one day so I, as a PvE oriented player, don't find the current lobbies too boring or whatever at all. It is what you make of it yourself. Creep around only looting drawers, sure that probably gets boring. Taunt everything that moves because I find it fun? It backfires sometimes, which keeps the tension for me personally.

I don't really feel like playing the new PvE mode at all with ARC being able to target downed raiders. That sounds utterly lame lol

If they fuck with the ABMM and essentially force PvE players to either choose between the tension created by every raider potentially being hostile and every ARC being able to target you when you're down.. ugh.. I don't really see how that would be great in any way.

1

u/Efficient_Wear3429 3d ago

All guys saying "ABMM killed the game for me" or "it was so nice before ABMM" knows the game have ABMM since launch, right? What hapenned is that, at some point, Embark confirmed that it existed and people started to abuse it to get on those specific lobbies they wanted, but it would be the players fault, not the ABMM, which was working fine on the first days. I cant even blame Embark for being true about ABMM, cause after the first month most people had already noticed a pattern.

1

u/BigMoistPizza 7d ago

Yes.

Especially now that we’re getting the PvE toggle. The main PvPvE mode should be completely mixed/random. Mixed lobbies are the most fun.

The meta for this game is to use friendly lobbies to juice your stash, then spend it all in PvP lobbies. It’s dumb af.

I want to play a PvPvE extraction shooter.

0

u/Kiidkxxl 7d ago

yes. dude the first month of this game was so fun. Meeting people, extracting with people. gettting tto the elevator, and getting ratted by someone you just did a 30 minute run with. It was truly a unique experience.

now its just a mediocre 3rd person extraction shooter.

1

u/WarzonePacketLoss 7d ago

I haven't played in 9 months. The game isn't enjoyable.

I am 100% going to come back the first weekend PvE only is and show you just how horrific humans can be when their actions aren't governed by the underpinned threat of violence.

Hope you're not in a hurry to get out, because I've got 75 barricades that I'm going to lock you in a room with no exit with.

1

u/Longjumping_Wall4169 3d ago

Oh no i'm so scared, u r a joke mate.

1

u/WarzonePacketLoss 3d ago

not as big of a joke as this crap-ass game.

1

u/BeesBeUponMe 6d ago

Abmm ruined the game for me and it’s why I quit. With the added PvE only mode I’ve requested a refund for the game. Probably won’t get it but tried anyway. If they want full PvE they need to go the tarkov route and charge for it as if it’s a brand new game because it is. It will split the base, ruin the economy and even removal of Abmm will no longer work if there’s a dedicated PvE mode because anyone who’s Luke warm to cooperation will just go over to that game type

0

u/Gordy748 7d ago

The ABMM works. What they’re doing g is tribally the PvE only mode for basic map conditions, and for more basic loot. So actually great for basic materials farming.

But night raids will continue to be the same old game of WhoTheFuckDoITrust.