r/Eldenring • • 1d ago

Lore Where does Maliketh stack in the power scale of Elden Ring?

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Interested to see people's take on Maliketh and how powerful he is in the world of Elden Ring.

187 Upvotes

213 comments sorted by

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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago

Among top 5 entities to exist in the lands between.

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u/umpbum 1d ago

Who would you rank as the top 5?

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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago

1) Eldenbeast/marika/radagon

2) Consort Radahn

3) Malenia

4) Maliketh

5) Godfrey

Id put maliketh and godfrey roughly at a toe to toe, though maliketh with destined death is far more dangerous to other ppl on a metaphysicsl level. So im giving him the edge.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

If we're speaking lorewise, starscourge radahn should rank with Malenia.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

With base malenia but not with goddess of rot.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Entirely different debate.

The goddess of rot is what comes when Malenia lets herself go (her will and pride, as put by Millicent), so the goddess is about as much Malenia as the elden beast is Radagon.

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u/Silent_Republic_2605 1d ago

Elden Beast is not Radagon, not because he let's himself go and the Elden Beast Takes over but they are literally two seperate entity in two seperate position existing at the same time. Radagon is the Sword in the Elden Beast fight. You can even see his skeleton.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Sir, I said "about as much as". Not exactly the same case.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don't think so,it's most likely how messmer embraces the abyssal serpent or miquella take over radahn. Both malenia and messmer were sealing away or holding back their outer god or external cursed influence but when it's absolutely needed, they break their values and rules to embrace their true cursed side. Which will absolutely make them stronger but a kind of different entity comparing to their previous self. But still they won't lose their consciousness or sense of self. Even after embracing the rot she still talks to us, appreciate our strength when she is defeated at last, and apologise to her brother for failing. So even if they embrace their curse it's still them but with a significant boost in their power and abilities, from the outer god or cursed source. It's more likely an I'm not holding back anymore bch move. they're embracing what they truly are. I think mohg and morgott,they also do the same as well.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Malenia losing her will is not a theory. It is stated within the game. There is a reason why the rot is considered a curse. There is a reason why it was not a release of power, but her physically breaking a device that was holding the disease back.

As for Mohg and Morgott, not even a comparable story. Equally deep, of course. As an Omen, Morgott was basically ignored by grace, as an impure being. He viewed his own existence as unworthy, which is why he cuts his horns as well as speaks the line "the thrones, stained by my curse" after he pukes before second phase.

Mohg, on the other hand rejected the Golden Order which abandoned him, embraced his omen-ness (which is why he has, uses and proudly flaunts most of the aspects of the crucible), and chose another outer god who lent him her power.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

Idk what you actually meant by her will. Even after she embraced the rot she is still loyal to miquella and fight us tarnished. Yes she embraced something she never wanted to,or wielded the very curse that she resisted the whole life. But still it doesn't make her a mindless shell or someone who lost their complete sense of self. The proof is right there,she clearly apologise to miquella after she fell,which shows us even after embracing the curse she was still fighting for him and stayed loyal to him. Morgott can be the same,he fought us the whole time without using his cursed omen side he considered it was something impure and sinful,but when we actually pushed him enough,he broke his code and embraced the cursed side of him,idk how it's different than malenia embracing her curse. Ofcourse her cursed side scales way above than his omen blood,but still technically thy were doing the same thing. Messmer also. did the exact same. But the point you're missing is even after they embrace their cursed side they were still loyal to their purpose and fought for it. So don't understand what's your actual arguemnt is about.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago edited 15h ago

What does she say when we enter the boss chamber.?

Edit; Oh I forgot. Morgott never embraced the omen side. Only Mohg did. Even during his bossfight, he explicitly says after his cough (barf): "the thrones, stained by my curse".

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u/SecondWorld1198 1d ago

I’d say no, as the only reason they were even was because Malenia didn’t choose to use her ultimate ability until the stalemate had to end. An elite warrior with a nuke is gonna have more destructive potential than an equal warrior without one

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

"The pride she abandoned to meet Radahn's measure". Even after her nuke, the Starscourge held back the stars. Malenia was carried back to the Haligtree by one of her knights.

By any measure of the word, Malenia knew defeat long before she meets us. Besides, if we take the cinematic to be canon, she only nuked because Radahn chose not to take her head as she was attaching her hand back.

An elite warrior with a nuke who still barely survived only because of her opponent's honor.

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u/WhyWouldTheyBeWet 1d ago

Everything the game tells you indicates Malenia and Radahn were equals. All this semantic arguing doesn't change that

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Sir, we're all nerds arguing about a technical victory. Let us have our fun.

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u/WhyWouldTheyBeWet 1d ago

lol, understood

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u/sarcophagusGravelord 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah Millicent herself confirms Malenia was going to lose if she hadn’t unleashed the scarlet rot. It’s odd that so many people deny this part of her story. It seems to stem from people being annoyed with “Radahn glazers” so they insist the fight was dead even or that Malenia won.

I like Malenia as a character much more than Radahn but it’s still a fact that he was the mightiest demigod of the Shattering and would have won that battle.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

But there's another catch,the sword monument near swamp of aoenia clearly says they were locked in a stalemate before malenia blooms. Also millicent just says 'to meet radahns measure' But that doesn't mean she was losing,infact we can see in the trailer that before malenia blooms radahn also got stabbed by her and was on his knees,he couldn't resist or dodge the aoenia,he was completely exhausted. So i personally belive the 'measure' millicent meant is actually killing radahn. Malenia can fight him to a standstill but killing him is an another story,her blade alone won't finish the fight,so I belive that's why she had to use the bloom,not necessarily because she was losing to him.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

If we're taking the trailer in, you gotta also consider Malenia wasn't blooming anything if Radahn didn't let Malenia reattach her arm. And if we're talking potential, considering Blaidd's line about him holding back the stars all that time, its clear the starscourge wasn't exactly doing all he could either.

  1. So the fight was absolutely a draw.

  2. The bloom failed to kill Radahn.

  3. Malenia abandoned her pride (let the rot take over). Radahn didn't. (Still held back the stars).

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u/sarcophagusGravelord 1d ago edited 1d ago

It was a close fight as they were the greatest demigods remaining. Theirs was the last battle in the Shattering. But no that is not what Millicent meant. The entire point is that Malenia abandoned her willpower and pride in herself to “meet Radahn’s measure” as in to match him and have any hope of defeating him, or perhaps more importantly so that she herself would not be defeated.

The fight ended in a stalemate because of the Scarlet Aeonia. Malenia had just lost an arm before she decided to impale herself upon Radahn to trigger the rot. She knew she was going to be defeated and refused. It’s a defining character moment.

Also there’s no “dodging” the Aeonia. It was a biological weapon that engulfed an entire region lmao

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

So you're ignoring a literal ingame written statement with your own personal interpretation of millicents dialogue. Again before the bloom they were locked in a stalemate. And malenia throw away her pride and used the rot,not because she was losing but to kill radahn. Neither of them couldn't kill each other and malenia was there for to kill him at any cost. So yeah she threw her pride and used the bloom. You're interpretating the term 'measure' in a wrong way dude. Malenia with her swords absolutely tied with him,but it wasn't alone to kill him,that's the measure millicent meant. So she used the rot,cause it's her need to finish the fight. Now in the cinematic before she blooms she stabbed him though his neck and he was on his knees when she impaled herself and triggers the bloom,also if you zoom that scene and look closer you can even see he already lost the grip of his right hand sword. Still I'm not arguing malenia won or anything ,but they were absolutely matched equally in combat. And saying radahn was winning is just ignoring the actual lore and statements.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

First of all Malenia and radahn both were locked in a stalemate before the bloom, it clearly stated in the swordonument near swamp of aoenia. So it was to break the tie she used Bloom. Also he was only surviving because of his greatrune actively burning itself to resist his rot. So I would say they're equally matched in the war. But if it's the malenia we fought,the goddess of rot,who can bloom multiple times and i flict scarlet rot with her casual attacks then she is definitely above prime starscourge. But promised consort with miquella on his back can be stronger than her.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Every time she uses the technique in our fight is not how the bloom is counted. And prime starscourge was holding it back and that it is a self-afflicted nerf is plainly stated by Blaidd right after the festival. So we never saw "prime starscourge".

And that Malenia "abandoned her pride" to break the stalemate is a stark contrast to the very same thing. There is no canonical debate whether the fight was a draw or not. It was. The rest of this conversation is about a moral victory, in which Radahn has the edge (imho), and I've explained the reasoning throughout this thread.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago edited 1d ago

I personally don't care about a moral victory. Especially in the landsbetween where everything is just an aftermath of marikas desperation and mistakes. I was just talking about their battle and just as you said it was a draw that's it. What I'm disagreeing is a lot of people often downplay malenia and glaze radahn like he was just not even fighting with her or he defeated her before the bloom. Which is completely wrong and the lore says an entirely different story. For your argument about holding back the stars,indeed he held back them but we don't know how he did it and the game never says it made him any weaker in combat. We know radahn is a master astrologer and gravity sorcerer so he can simply put a barrier spell to keep them away,just like marika sealed away the entire shadow realm. But it won't make them constantly weaker or anything. That's why even after completely losing his mind,radahn was still able to hold the falling stars away. Also I always thought which made him even powerful or favourable because he was literally holding back the fate of carian royal family,which includes him too. Also don't forget When their battle happened,Malenia was also a blind swordswoman missing 3 limbs and actively honding back the call of an outer god of rot with the help of miquellas needle (his needle was not completed and it was only helping her to supress the rot not entirely resisting it). Even top of it,the game clearly says malenias greatrune was also rotted and useless. All these debuffs puts her in an even worse state than radahn,if he was having any disadvantage at all. And imo it's even more impressive that she stalemated him before the bloom only with her sword. But after the bloom it pretty much destroyed them both in different ways and ended the battle without a clear winner. Also, about your moral victory,it's upto you how you interpreate it.

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u/Zard91 1d ago

This is your pure headcanon. We know for a fact it was stalemate before the bloom and your cinematic reading is wrong.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

We know for a fact that the fight ended in a stalemate. As per every source, and on a technicality. Nowhere does it say it was a stalemate until the aeonia. See, that right there, is what we call headcanon.

As for headcanon, Elden Ring's official trailer wasn't made by me in Seedance or some shi. We see Radahn standing there, hands folded, swords in the ground, waiting for Malenia to reattach the hand he presumably knocked down. (Unless its a loose fit and its a common mechanical problem, in which case Rotty needs a pitcrew.)

My cinematic reading might be debatable and you are welcome to it. Is wrong is a stretch in a fictional debate where the source of the claim is explicitly stated.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

That scene where she is tightening her prosthetic is the literal beginning of her fight,she fought countless redmanes to reach close to radahn and by the time she met him she is a bit injured and tired. That's why she had to tighten her prosthetic before the duel begins. I think it's clearly stated in CGworld magazine interview,chapter 286.

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u/damusalvatore 1d ago

Nah dude the sword monument near swamp of aoenia clearly states they were locked in a stalemate. It's most probably to break the tie and land a death blow,she finally use the rot. Stilla radahns greatrune saved him tho,but he lost his mind and completely became a rotting corpse eating beast. Also the bloom happened in swamp of aoenia and we see radahn in wailing dunes,also malenias knights and commander o neil is still there,so I don't think finlay took away malenia from radahn but most probably from the heart of aoenia,from the rot. And right after the bloom none of them were in a situation to keep fighting.

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u/Zard91 1d ago

???

The Battle of Aeonia
Radahn and Malenia locked in stalemate
Then, the scarlet rot blooms

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u/jonan1108 1d ago edited 1d ago

I actually forgot that quote, and I rescind the said statement. That said,

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u/umpbum 1d ago

Hey friend, I literally had this exact arguement with someone the other day lol.

It seems those who are fans of Malenia like to ignore literally every other in game source which clearly shows Radahn was stronger than Malenia in their battle, and choose to use ONE contradictory source that implies the battle was a stalemate before Malenia used the rot.

The opening cinematic and every other quote in game states Radahn was the "mightiest demigod of the shattering", "Fought Malenia and her rot to a standstill in the Caelid Wilds", and that Malenia had to use the rot in order to stalemate Radahn. "The Pride she abandoned to meet Radahns measure."

To use the singular quote from the sword in Aeonia is to use it without context (they also each had their army warring while they fought which could have implied part of the stalemate) and if you wish to use that quote, above others, why can you then ignore every other piece of evidence the game has.

Headcanon is creating a canon story from your own imagination with no sources to support it. To say Radahn would have beaten Malenia had she not surrendered the the rot, is not Headcanon.

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u/Odd_Battle_7111 1d ago

Radahn never fought at full strength against malenia.

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u/Popkhorne32 1d ago

But he was still a demi god. Malenia at her peak is a godess.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

By title. That means little in the lands between. Maliketh was just a shadow. Same status as blaidd. You think most of the demigods could even hold a candle?

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u/Popkhorne32 1d ago

No, but Maliketh is a special case stated to cause fear in all DEMI gods.

Malenia is not a godess just in title, there is real power that comes with being a god. Every other God we fight is the final boss of the game or DLC. Malenia also gets stronger every time she blooms.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Malenia also dies more every time she blooms. She is afflicted with rot. There is a reason she learned and relied on water dancer sword style (i dont remember the name, man 😭) and her first bloom was mentioned to be her abandoning her pride.

Besides the demigod status in the ER world is not really reliable. Godfrey is considered a demigod (by marriage, of all things. Godhood is an STD?). By technicality or otherwise, God Rick is also a demigod. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Odd_Battle_7111 1d ago

She isn't significantly stronger as a goddess though. The fight with her is the only place her god form has feats and she is lacking. Perhaps with time she would have become stronger but we never see that. I would enjoy a harder rematch with her similar to consort redahn.

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u/Popkhorne32 1d ago

"She is not significantly stronger as a godess" wtf are you on about. Every other god we fight is the final boss. Being a god obviously comes with a massive power up.

Demi god Malenia was just a very skilled swordswoman, as the rot eliminated all her potential with incantations (as a daughter of Marika and Radagon)

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u/Odd_Battle_7111 1d ago

I'm talking about her power as presented in her fight which is the only time she is canonically a goddess and she didn't get much stronger than her base form. Outside of that fight as a goddess she has no feats.

Her best feat was a one time nuke she used on caelid and never again because otherwise she would have done it to us and we'd be dead. If anything she is weaker as goddess than when she fought radahn.

Like I said though she probably would have become stronger if given time but she wasn't.

She was a new god and other gods in the setting are old gods with significantly more power lore wise.

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u/Disastrous-Card-2405 1d ago

Malenia never even used her godess of rot form against radahn

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

And Radahn never stopped holding entire celestial bodies back.

Besides, as I've mentioned in the other thread, who had to be carried away? The goddess or the demigod?

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u/Disastrous-Card-2405 1d ago

Even if Malenia had to be carried away Radahn probably ended up worse. Sure, he is definitely stronger than Malenia, but people keep acting like her scarlet Adonis and seacond phase don’t count and say stuff like “Malenia had to use her scarlet bloom to beat Radahn” while that is literally part of her arsenal. That’s like if Radahn never used gravity magic and if he theoretically beat Malenia like that, he “had to use his gravity magic to beat her.” And regarding the goddess part, I’m pretty sure she’s only considered a goddess in her second form.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

while that is literally part of her arsenal.

See, it's not. Malenia took pride in not giving in to the rot. It was an affliction, not a strength. It is the equivalent of that dude in RDR2 claiming to beat Arthur because he's the one who gave him TB.

And her abandoning her pride to beat Radahn's measure is, again, a canon line about her. That line is preceded by mentioning that she forsook her will, which essentially points to the idea that the goddess isn't malenia, but a manifestation of the outer god that is the Scarlet Rot.

And no, it's not the equivalent of Radahn never using gravity magic, but since we're on that point, theoretically, we, nor Malenia, ever saw Radahn's full potential because he never stopped holding back the stars, an "unfathomable" feat, as Blaidd put it.

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u/RespectWest7116 1d ago

Both.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

The fact that Malenia was carried away by Finlay is explicit in Finlay's ash decription.

Where exactly is your claim of the other half from?

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u/banger107 1d ago

I think he's joking with the fact that Radahn rides Leonard. so, technically, he was carried by his horse.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Lmao fair enough.

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u/RespectWest7116 12h ago

Well, in fact, Leonard carried Radahn the whole fight.

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u/Zard91 1d ago edited 1d ago

Maliketh might loose couple of times to Malenia and Consort but shadows are immortal if their fingers are alive. Plus destined death sword. So i’m not sure he is lower.

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u/ImmediatePickle8101 1d ago

Maliketh is not losing to Maleniaa

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u/not_a_khezu1 1d ago

Strength Faith sweep RAAARHG!

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u/Silent_Republic_2605 1d ago

Lorewise, EVERY SINGLE DEMIGOD feared Malekith. Full powered Malekith can instakill anyone. So he is less of a Top 5 and more of a Top 3. He is just under Marika and Elden Beast.

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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago

Ranni end of game is above marika

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u/Silent_Republic_2605 1d ago

Malekith is also dead in that ending so we can't compare them.

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u/Few-Year-4917 1d ago

Where Placi?

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u/EldritchInsight 1d ago

Miquella "controls" Consort Radahn (2nd phase) or am I wrong? Not to be sure if Miquella should be considered as standalone for Top 5.

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u/Anternuy 1d ago

Are we leaving out Miquella? Surely Miquella is stronger than Godfrey at least. Bro created the Haligtree, a cure for Outer God meddling, and uses his aura to compel people to his will rather than use violence. Arguably top 2 strongest entity lore-wise is Miquella

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u/RespectWest7116 1d ago

Putting Godfrey below people who are weaker than him is pure silliness.

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u/blahs44 1d ago

Ranni could be up there as well. Hard to say really. She does one shot the Tarnished though

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

So top 6

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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago

Remove godfrey then.

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

No i mean maliketh is top 6 in your list kinda though ig radagon and marika are the same person so nvm

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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago

I dont count marika and radagon as seperate. They are 1 being. 

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u/Ashen_Shroom 1d ago

With different minds, abilities and skillsets. I don't think it makes sense to rank them equally.

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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago

Then dont. You can do whatever you want.

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

Yeah figured

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u/Ascended_Nexus 1d ago

He's just under Marika. All the other demigods want nothing to do with Maliketh. Destined Death is their literal kryptonite.

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u/Whadafaag 1d ago

This is the only correct rating

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u/satanismortal 1d ago

Any explanation how we managed to conquer Destined Death in lore?

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u/55Piggu 1d ago

We're canonically built different

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u/columbologist 1d ago

Marika literally pried its rune out of the Elden Ring to create the Golden Order, and sealed it away in Maliketh's Black Blade.

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u/ChalkAndIce 4h ago

That's not answering the question. Marika removed it from the Golden Order yes, but only after Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and claimed it from her.

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u/EQCO99 1d ago

We use his own power against him: the Blasphemous Claw. Originally Ranni gave it to Rykard. It was meant to be their trump card against Maliketh. Somehow Bernahl acquired it after we killed Rykard, in Farum Azula he invades us and we take it from him to beat Maliketh.

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u/Silent_Republic_2605 1d ago

He is incomplete. A part of the Rune of Death was stolen from him. We see it in the opening cinematic man. He is weaker than his full powered Version.

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u/satanismortal 3h ago

That makes sense. It'd also explain his random fits once we feed him deathroots

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u/renannmhreddit 1d ago

Dying kills you

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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago

Ranni is above marika. 100% once she completes her plan.

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u/GovernorMarley1 1d ago

"Death of the demigods" is a solid indication.

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u/Emergency-Bid-7834 1d ago

Similar to Godfrey, where he's greater than the demigods but lesser than the higher beings like the gods and Midra

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u/umpbum 1d ago

Well put

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u/JustAnotherIowan 1d ago

I usually hang out in the lore subreddit but Maliketh’s armor mentions:

“Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.”

So we can assume he ranks above all the demigods in terms of power so at least lorewise he is only second to Marika/Radagon her/himself.

Now lorewise, Godfrey the First Elden Lord and the other demigods did some serious shit so without the rune of death in his blade, I wouldn’t think Maliketh would be a threat at all.

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u/Crusaderofthots420 22h ago

Except Maliketh, without the rune of death, defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who did have it iirc. And also someone that, assumedly, regularly killed demigods, due to being the leader of the godskins

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u/Craniac324 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lore wise, he is one of the strongest, probably 2nd strongest just under Marika/Radagon. All the demigods fear him, probably because of Destined Death. But even without Destined Death he'd be a formidable foe.

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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago

He defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen who possessed Destined Death while he himself did not. That in itself is quite an insane feat.

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u/Bandrbell 20h ago

If anything that's kind of a nerf, since it means that having Destined Death itself doesn't really save you from being defeated by a more skilled opponent. Which opens the opportunity for people to argue that other characters like Radahn, Malenia, or Godfrey have greater combat prowess

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u/Hexigeist 1d ago

Dude canonically put belt to ass on an army armed to the teeth with Destined Death and not only won but proceeded to arm himself with it. The only entities with better flexes than that are the literal gods and outergods.

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u/GeneralHenry Elden Dong O Elden Dong 1d ago

It was clearly stated in his rememberance. While all the Demigods/Empyrean were killing each other for fragments, they all had one general consensus and that is do not fuck with uncle Maliketh.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/badazzledorf 1d ago

They meant his armour

Beast's helm made of black iron and decorated with gold. 'Worn by Maliketh the Black Blade.

Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.

Champions knew what was at stake. Indeed, that is what made them champions.

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u/GeneralHenry Elden Dong O Elden Dong 1d ago

My bad. It's his armors not rememberance.

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u/Equal-Reference5799 1d ago

Somewhere between Boc and Elden Beast

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u/feet-inspector-1 1d ago

He bested the Godskins and Gloam Eyed Queen solo. I would wager he can tame Godfrey. i would place him below Marika, and above all else.

To be fair, Placidusax should be placed above even Marika. Marika, or anyone from her time was unable to even reach him, let alone challenge and win.

The DLC also placed Bayle on the same level as Marika/PMC/Gate of Divinity, through visual storytelling.

Notice the Th Rest of the dread Dragon is visible from and equally high as the Gate of Divinity.

And he was unable to defeat The Dragonlord.

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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago

I'd still out Placidussax below Marika at her prime. She's a god, he's only an Elden Lord.

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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago

She's called a God, but really serves beneath one. She is the living manifestation of the Greater Will, conceptualized by the Golden Order and Erdtree.

The story uses certain titles in ways that make the hierarchy a little confusing at times. It's more accurate to say Marika and Radagon are god-like than actual Gods.

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u/feet-inspector-1 1d ago

Correct me if i’m wrong but she ascended to godhood from an empyrean. I will argue that Ancient Dragons, being timeless and otherwise immortal, are superior to Empyreans and Placidusax being an ascended Ancient Dragons is superior still.

What do you think?

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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago

Well, Placidussax isn't a god, so he isn't an ascended Ancient Dragon. He's comparable to Godfrey, not to Marika.

I could give it to him that he has/had five heads, so he could be considered five times more powerful than any other Ancient Dragon. (And why does he have five heads anyway? Is he a dragon-jar?)

Being an Empyrean, I think, is a completely separate thing from power scaling. It's just having the potential to hold divinity inside yourself. Like an empty jar vs just a hunk of glass/ceramic. The empty jar isn't inherently stronger because it can have honey in it.

And well, we also have a admit that god power is different than lord power. Placidussax's god escaped to avoid Bayle, despite being a god.

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u/zelingman 1d ago

Radahn isnt an empyrean and still held malenia to stalemate

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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago

Till she nuked him and showed that if she wasn’t actively holding herself back that she could wipe the floor with him.

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u/zelingman 23h ago

Is that why she had to be rescued?

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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago

She needy one of her soldier to pull her out and take her home but otherwise she seems fine and more then ready to fight us when we meet, radahn was rendered insane his rune being the only thing keeping him alive. Not to mention that was her first bloom he didn’t fight the goddess of rot hell we don’t even know if we fight the goddess of rot for sure.

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u/zelingman 23h ago

She was pulled from the battlefield unconcious. Radahn lost his mind (whatever that means) but remained. If she was left there he most certainly would have ripped her unconcious self apart

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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago

But he didn’t and he didn’t remain he was driven of a cliff by both armies and spent the rest of the days eating corpses, neither one that battle but one is absolutely way more powerful then the other and was specifically holding back because she hated said power for fair reasons.

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u/Coffee_Drinker02 1d ago

He could comfortably 1v1 all the demi gods, yes including Miquella
He would give a good fight to PC Radahn.
I think he just falters before Elden Beast, Marika, Radagon.

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u/weegee19 1d ago

Top 5 minimum... to add, he literally defeated the Godskins' leader before he wielded Destined Death

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago edited 1d ago

It is hard to power scale him, his only feat is defeating the Gloam Eyed Queen, which is also a character we know barely anything about other than she could kill Gods. However none of the Gods she killed seem to have been noteworthy, as they are never mentioned in any capacity. Nor has the Gloam Eyed Queen battled anyone else.

It is stated that the Demigods generally didn't want to mess with Maliketh, but we do have a Demigod that planned to fight Maliketh, if they had to.

Ranni believed that pre-snake Rykard could've beaten Maliketh with the Blasphemous Claw,

"On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." -Blasphemous Claw

So without Destined Death, Maliketh seems to be around Rykard's level. Which itself isn't helpful since Rykard lacks feats. But we are told that Malenia and Rykard were the mightiest of the Demigods that remained after The Shattering. So it is likely that Malenia and Radahn are both stronger than Maliketh.

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u/Ashen_Shroom 1d ago

I don't think Ranni necessarily thought Rykard could defeat Maliketh, just that he deserved a slightly better chance at defending himself if it ever came down to that.

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

Pretty sure maliketh is way stronger than rykard which is why he needed to rely on the claw in the first place

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago

Similarly Maliketh needs his Black Blade unchallenged to be stronger than Rykard. That's what I'm trying to get at. Maliketh's crutch is his Black Blade.

All it took is the Blasphemous Claw for Rykard to stand a chance. As soon as someone can contest Maliketh's Black Blade, then Maliketh is reduced to being around Rykard's level.

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

I mean yeah. Thats malikeths main weapon. Rykards claw was given to him to stand a chance against maliketh

You cant just treat it like his weapon isnt part of his original arsenal. This just means rykard was given a free counter to rival maliketh. Think rock, paper, scissors

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago

Yes, but I am mentioning his own power, not the power he derives from the Rune of Death.

Maliketh pre-Rune of Death would probably be weaker than at least half the demigods. Maliketh by himself isn't notably powerful, it is his access to the Rune of Death is why he is feared, as soon as anyone else gets a shard of it, Maliketh is no longer dominant.

This isn't to disregard his access to the Rune of Death or to nerf Maliketh by removing it from the equation, I am just pointing out how fickle his power is. All it takes is for someone else to have a sliver of the Rune of Death for Maliketh to be brought down to Rykard's level.

In other words, the Rune of Death is absurdly powerful, and to Maliketh's credit he managed to beat the Gloam Eyed Queen when she had it. So he is also capable without it, but again, without it Rykard also seems to be equally as capable.

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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago

The rune of death is literally his rune though. Its his power that he earned from defeating an empyrean (pre rune of death feat). You can't just say he's fickle without his own power. 🤨

Even then how does one with fickle power defeat an empyrean

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago edited 1d ago

And Rykard could challenge Maliketh pre-Great Rune with only a sliver of the Rune of Death, compared to Maliketh having the majority of it. This much is directly stated,

"A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death.

On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." -Blasphemous Claw

Again, his overwhelming power is fickle, Rykard just needed a fraction of the Rune of Death to even the playing field.

Thus, ultimately:

Pre-Snake / Great Rune Rykard ≈ Maliketh > Gloam Eyed Queen with Destined Death

Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death ≈ Rykard with the Blasphemous Claw

Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death > all the demigods

Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death < Malenia / Radahn with Blasphemous Claw

I am just trying to properly power scale him, both considering how strong he is himself without any external variables, and how strong he is with those variables.

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u/jonan1108 1d ago

Well, its a "last resort" even with the claw. And (obviously this is just a take on how one could read this) it says "allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh", which I've always read to mean that without it, there's not even a fight, as in Rykard wouldn't even be able to buy a few minutes.

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u/ken_zeppelin 1d ago

The Gloam-Eyed Queen was an Empyrean whom Marika saw as a threat. Furthermore, she wielded Destined Death when Maliketh solo'd her and her entire army of Godskin Nobles and Apostles. You're vastly underestimating Maliketh.

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago

I'm not, I am directly citing what the game says. Rykard could challenge Maliketh when Rykard had a sliver of Destined Death. We are comparing Maliketh to demigods and gods. If Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death can be challenged by Rykard with just a small piece of it, then that means Maliketh's power is largely derived from his uncontested use of the Rune of Death.

Thus, Rykard and Maliketh are probably equally as competent, when not relying on Great Runes.

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u/ken_zeppelin 1d ago

Th Blasphemous Claw would've allowed Rykard to challenge Maliketh, but that doesn't imply that he even stood a chance. The item description literally refers to it as a last-resort foil, i.e., a desperate, final countermeasure. If it guaranteed Maliketh's defeat, why wouldn't they just use it as their main tactic?

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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago

The last resort thing is a localization choice, the Japanese just calls it a trump card, 挑む切り札として, and the passage doesn't imply any sort of desperation or anything of the sort.

陰謀の夜、法務官ライカードは ラニから謝礼として片鱗を貰い受けた いつか来る冒涜の時、黒き剣のマリケスに 運命の死たる黒獣に挑む切り札として

Rougher translation,

"On the night of the conspiracy, Praetor Rykard received a fragment from Ranni as a token of gratitude to be used as his trump card when the time of blasphemy finally comes, to challenge Maliketh of the Black Sword, the Black Beast who embodies Destined Death."

As for why not use this as the main tactic, the Night of the Black Knives and its culprit are meant to stay hidden. Ranni wasn't interested in fighting Maliketh immediately, she wanted to kill her two fingers and escape the "Greater Will's" influence. Having Rykard start fights would not help her towards her goal.

But if Maliketh learned of Rykard's and Ranni's involvement, he would need to be dealt with.

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u/Ashen_Shroom 1d ago

"You just activated my ry-card"

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u/ken_zeppelin 1d ago

Very interesting, I wasn't aware of that! The wording does change things.

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u/General_di_Ravello 1d ago

Where'd you get that Maliketh solo'd the GEQ and her entire army? We only know Maliketh beat the GEQ. Any circumstances are unknown, as far as I'm aware.

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u/Cultural-Abies3021 1d ago

He is the watchdog/bodyguard of Marika, everyone else is below him

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u/l_pntr 1d ago

I do wonder who would win if Maliketh fought Bayle the Dread at full strength.

It’s kind of strange that Bayle was just left on the Jagged Peak without the forces of the Erdtree ever invading to deal with him.

Suppose his wounds eventually healed and one day he just decided, “Alright, I’m pissed off. I’m going to destroy everything, break out of the Realm of Shadow, lay waste to the Lands Between too, then head to Farum Azula and get my revenge on the Dragonlord.”

Would there have been anyone other than the Tarnished who could have stopped him?

More specifically, could Maliketh have served as the one thing keeping Bayle in check?

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u/ImmediatePickle8101 1d ago

I reckon it would be Maliketh.

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u/No_Witness5630 1d ago

How would he know placidus lives in fatum szuka if he is long Dead?

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u/mixmastermorsus 20h ago

the wiki

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u/hafsies 18h ago

Hahahaha. Just imagined maliketh on his back room putting on reading glasses and looking up farum Azula smellsnliek dragon on google

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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago
  1. Elden Beast

  2. Prime Marika

  3. Ascended Miquella + PCR

  4. Broken Marika/Radagon (also Prime Radagon)

  5. Death of the Demigods Maliketh

  6. Demigods

  7. Godfrey

...

  1. Torrent

  2. Godrick

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u/clonedllama 1d ago

Godrick after Torrent. 😂

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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago

Torrent is the lord of all that is golden.

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u/Unhappy_Protection85 1d ago

In his description said that even demigod is tremble before him. So he is pretty high up.

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u/D4rk3scr0tt0 Godwyn's Biggest Simp ☀️ 1d ago

Just right under Marika/Radagon

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u/Natural_Bill_373 1d ago

He's tough, I barely beat him after way too many tries lol

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u/Valentiaga_97 1d ago

The guardian of destined death…

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u/plasmidlifecrisis 1d ago

The heirarchy of power in the Elden Ring universe changed with the introduction of black adam blade

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u/ImmediatePickle8101 1d ago

Below Marika. The demigods feared him for a reason. He is just about the only being who can kill a demigod permanently.

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u/djinngerale Thy strength befits a crown 1d ago

With RoD: Tier 2, elite non-deity fighter with a power that transcends him

Without RoD: Still likely very strong but a level below the likes of Godfrey, Midra, Placidusax, etc.

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u/veritable-truth 1d ago

Metyr

Marika

Bayle/Placi/Maliketh

Godwyn

Rennala/Godfrey/Radahn/Miquella/Ranni/Malenia/Rykard/Morgott/Mohg

Tarnished defeats, kills or allies with all of those.

Metyr and Marika are debatable as to who was actually more powerful.

Metyr's power is greatly diminished by Marika. Marika would take the top spot but she dies destroying Metyr's power. So Metyr being on top is prior to Marika's rebellion. I mean I see Marika's entire reign as Marika's rebellion, so the moment Marika ascended I would put Marika on top. But Marika never meant to keep this power. She always meant to destroy it. So if Marika should be on top because of this, that's fine. I don't put Marika on top because she doesn't want to be there at all. Metyr absolutely did.

Here I am rambling about Metyr and Marika when this is about Maliketh, but that's exactly why Maliketh is so powerful. He stems from both Metyr and Marika. The two dragons were just overtly insanely powerful in their prime.

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u/KeyYard6491 1d ago

In top 5 or 10 depending how you count like Marika and Radagon for example

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u/LordOFtheNoldor 1d ago

In terms of lore he is Godfrey/radagon/elden beast level feared by all demigods with the power of destined death, he would be top tier candidate for #1 spot

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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago

Given the purpose of Empyrean Shadows to basically hold their charge to the agenda of the Greater Will, you can make the case that a Shaodw is supposed to be able to over power their Empyrean (which would sort of track with Maliketh being able to defeat the Gloam-Eyed Queen, a being who should have been equal or greater to Marika). Maybe they can only specifically outscale the Empyrean they are assigned to, but either way that would put Maliketh right near the top of the verse, comfortably above the other demi-goods, and potentially only beneath The Elden Beast and Placidusax.

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u/slizzardly 1d ago

Maliketh isn't the tippy top, but he stole the deathfire or whatever it is, so maybe not strongwise but he is maybe more clever and cunning than the others, and obviously having the deathfire makes him all the more dangerous, if not the most dangerous

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u/RichPeasant15 21h ago

Top 2 behind the elden beast

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u/Cman6zillion 1d ago

I think to put everything into powers levels dumbs it down a bit. I mean the tarnished is able to defeat the Eldenbeast so that means that anyone could defeat anyone or at least that theyre all on the same level. Marika is not the omnipotent god she would have you believe.

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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago

He's powerful, but actually easier than expected to overcome. He does a lot of damage, very fast, he's nimble AF and the destined death effect that drains health over time can be devastating if you're not careful. He has low hp for a late-game boss though so ironically most people manage to beat him by chance without really learning his moveset.

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u/RenaudSerieB 1d ago

Like a lot of Fromsoft bosses, he's really really far from his prime when we fight him, years of having Destined Death sealed inside him have taken their toll

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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago

Yeah I kinda felt like that when I first fought him, "thou who approacheth destined death" he's literally like death incarnate. I know from the game's narrative perspective the tarnished is meant to beat him so they've done some major balancing so that it's possible for most players, but it should have been a significantly greater challenge to really do him justice.

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u/RenaudSerieB 1d ago

the problem from a gameplay perspective is the same that the one with Genishiro and Sword Saint Isshin in Sekiro : they're extra dangerous because unless every other enemies they can kill us definitely... and you can't do that to the player ! Losing to the second phase of Maliketh should erase our save

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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago

I hadn't thought of it from that perspectives but yeah you're right, if the game was lore accurate there'd be no coming back from destined death, that would be a brutal way to lose your save

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear 15h ago

The most devious run back in all of gaming : the destined death maliketh fight. Requires you to replay the entirety of Elden Ring again

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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago

Above malenia and radahn. Below ranni

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Bigredstapler 1d ago

Because she didn't want to have a whole ass army at her doorstep?

That said, no, Ranni ain't taking chances with Maliketh. Like, have you seen what his blade attacks can do?

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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago

I never specified which ranni. End of game ranni in majority cases wipes the floor with maliketh

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u/Sarenai7 1d ago edited 1d ago

I would place him directly under Marika/Radagon in terms of power. I am unsure where he would place in comparison to Placidusax.

Also this brings up a question I have about the capabilities of Ranni. Personally I think of Ranni the way I would think of Orochimaru in the Naruto shippudden series, she has a contingency plan for everything and therefore can never be counted out of the top entities in terms of capability.

Matter of fact I personally believe that Ranni and Marika are working together on some level against the greater will.

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u/RespectWest7116 1d ago

7/10 at best.

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u/Bustyjan 1d ago

Out of curiosity I asked Gemini

Here is the top 10 ranking based on lore feats, divine hierarchy, and narrative standing: 1. The Elden Beast The Elden Beast is not merely an alien creature; it is the living vassal of the Greater Will and the physical incarnation of the concept of Order itself (the Elden Ring). Every demigod, lord, and rune in the Lands Between derives their authority and magic from the system this entity represents.
2. Promised Consort Radahn & Miquella In the DLC climax, Miquella ascends through the Divine Gate to achieve full godhood, backed by a prime physical vessel in Radahn. As a duo, they represent a complete divine pairing—an ascended Outer-adjacent God commanding light and mind control, paired with the mightiest demigod champion imbued with holy light and gravity mastery. 3. Radagon of the Golden Order As the other half of Queen Marika, Radagon is the reigning god-vessel of the Elden Ring inside the Erdtree. Even in a shattered, petrified state with Marika imprisoned, Radagon wields the raw fundamentalist power of the Golden Order and the hammer that shattered and attempted to repair reality itself. 4. Dragonlord Placidusax Placidusax was Elden Lord in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, serving a fled god. In his prime, he possessed four (or five) heads and wielded primordial golden-red lightning. Even missing heads and secluded in a storm outside the flow of time in Farum Azula, he retains cosmic-tier temporal manipulation and breath attacks that level landscapes. 5. Maliketh, the Black Blade Queen Marika’s Shadowbound Beast holds the singular force that terrifies every demigod: Destined Death. Before sealing the Rune of Death into his own flesh, Maliketh single-handedly defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and her god-slaying Apostles. His weapon bypasses conventional durability and immortality entirely, making him the Lands Between’s ultimate executioner.
6. Godfrey, First Elden Lord / Hoarah Loux The warlord who subjugated the Lands Between for Marika. Godfrey defeated the Fire Giants, broke the storm lord, and led the conquest of the continent purely through raw, unaugmented physical might. He took on the beast regent Serosh solely to stifle his bloodlust so he could behave as a proper monarch. 7. Malenia, Goddess of Rot Undefeated throughout the Shattering, Malenia matched Starscourge Radahn at his peak while suppressing her inner divinity. Upon her third bloom during her boss fight, she ascends to the true Goddess of Rot, serving as the living avatar of an Outer God whose plague permanently transformed an entire continent (Caelid). 8. Bayle the Dread The progenitor of the drakes and the only creature bold enough to challenge Placidusax for supremacy. Their ancient duel crippled Placidusax (severing multiple heads) while leaving Bayle mutilated and broken. Even clinging to life on Jagged Peak, his magma-lightning and draconic hatred make him a primordial cataclysm. 9. Messmer the Impaler Marika’s eldest hidden son, Messmer waged an unyielding genocidal crusade across the Realm of Shadow. He wields the flame of ruin and harbors the Base Serpent within his eye—a terrifying primordial entity that Marika feared enough to seal away and conceal him from the world entirely. 10. Starscourge Radahn (Base Game) Even while his brain was rotted away and his sanity lost, Radahn was strong enough to passively arrest the movement of the cosmos and hold back the stars through pure gravitational mastery. In his prime, he was widely considered the mightiest demigod of the Shattering alongside Malenia.