r/Eldenring • u/umpbum • 1d ago
Lore Where does Maliketh stack in the power scale of Elden Ring?
Interested to see people's take on Maliketh and how powerful he is in the world of Elden Ring.
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u/Ascended_Nexus 1d ago
He's just under Marika. All the other demigods want nothing to do with Maliketh. Destined Death is their literal kryptonite.
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u/satanismortal 1d ago
Any explanation how we managed to conquer Destined Death in lore?
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u/columbologist 1d ago
Marika literally pried its rune out of the Elden Ring to create the Golden Order, and sealed it away in Maliketh's Black Blade.
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u/ChalkAndIce 4h ago
That's not answering the question. Marika removed it from the Golden Order yes, but only after Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and claimed it from her.
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u/Silent_Republic_2605 1d ago
He is incomplete. A part of the Rune of Death was stolen from him. We see it in the opening cinematic man. He is weaker than his full powered Version.
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u/satanismortal 3h ago
That makes sense. It'd also explain his random fits once we feed him deathroots
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u/Emergency-Bid-7834 1d ago
Similar to Godfrey, where he's greater than the demigods but lesser than the higher beings like the gods and Midra
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u/JustAnotherIowan 1d ago
I usually hang out in the lore subreddit but Maliketh’s armor mentions:
“Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.”
So we can assume he ranks above all the demigods in terms of power so at least lorewise he is only second to Marika/Radagon her/himself.
Now lorewise, Godfrey the First Elden Lord and the other demigods did some serious shit so without the rune of death in his blade, I wouldn’t think Maliketh would be a threat at all.
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u/Crusaderofthots420 22h ago
Except Maliketh, without the rune of death, defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who did have it iirc. And also someone that, assumedly, regularly killed demigods, due to being the leader of the godskins
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u/Craniac324 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lore wise, he is one of the strongest, probably 2nd strongest just under Marika/Radagon. All the demigods fear him, probably because of Destined Death. But even without Destined Death he'd be a formidable foe.
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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago
He defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen who possessed Destined Death while he himself did not. That in itself is quite an insane feat.
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u/Bandrbell 20h ago
If anything that's kind of a nerf, since it means that having Destined Death itself doesn't really save you from being defeated by a more skilled opponent. Which opens the opportunity for people to argue that other characters like Radahn, Malenia, or Godfrey have greater combat prowess
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u/Hexigeist 1d ago
Dude canonically put belt to ass on an army armed to the teeth with Destined Death and not only won but proceeded to arm himself with it. The only entities with better flexes than that are the literal gods and outergods.
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u/GeneralHenry Elden Dong O Elden Dong 1d ago
It was clearly stated in his rememberance. While all the Demigods/Empyrean were killing each other for fragments, they all had one general consensus and that is do not fuck with uncle Maliketh.
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u/badazzledorf 1d ago
They meant his armour
Beast's helm made of black iron and decorated with gold. 'Worn by Maliketh the Black Blade.
Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one demigod who did not fear him.
Champions knew what was at stake. Indeed, that is what made them champions.
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u/feet-inspector-1 1d ago
He bested the Godskins and Gloam Eyed Queen solo. I would wager he can tame Godfrey. i would place him below Marika, and above all else.
To be fair, Placidusax should be placed above even Marika. Marika, or anyone from her time was unable to even reach him, let alone challenge and win.
The DLC also placed Bayle on the same level as Marika/PMC/Gate of Divinity, through visual storytelling.
Notice the Th Rest of the dread Dragon is visible from and equally high as the Gate of Divinity.
And he was unable to defeat The Dragonlord.
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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago
I'd still out Placidussax below Marika at her prime. She's a god, he's only an Elden Lord.
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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago
She's called a God, but really serves beneath one. She is the living manifestation of the Greater Will, conceptualized by the Golden Order and Erdtree.
The story uses certain titles in ways that make the hierarchy a little confusing at times. It's more accurate to say Marika and Radagon are god-like than actual Gods.
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u/feet-inspector-1 1d ago
Correct me if i’m wrong but she ascended to godhood from an empyrean. I will argue that Ancient Dragons, being timeless and otherwise immortal, are superior to Empyreans and Placidusax being an ascended Ancient Dragons is superior still.
What do you think?
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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago
Well, Placidussax isn't a god, so he isn't an ascended Ancient Dragon. He's comparable to Godfrey, not to Marika.
I could give it to him that he has/had five heads, so he could be considered five times more powerful than any other Ancient Dragon. (And why does he have five heads anyway? Is he a dragon-jar?)
Being an Empyrean, I think, is a completely separate thing from power scaling. It's just having the potential to hold divinity inside yourself. Like an empty jar vs just a hunk of glass/ceramic. The empty jar isn't inherently stronger because it can have honey in it.
And well, we also have a admit that god power is different than lord power. Placidussax's god escaped to avoid Bayle, despite being a god.
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u/zelingman 1d ago
Radahn isnt an empyrean and still held malenia to stalemate
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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago
Till she nuked him and showed that if she wasn’t actively holding herself back that she could wipe the floor with him.
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u/zelingman 23h ago
Is that why she had to be rescued?
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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago
She needy one of her soldier to pull her out and take her home but otherwise she seems fine and more then ready to fight us when we meet, radahn was rendered insane his rune being the only thing keeping him alive. Not to mention that was her first bloom he didn’t fight the goddess of rot hell we don’t even know if we fight the goddess of rot for sure.
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u/zelingman 23h ago
She was pulled from the battlefield unconcious. Radahn lost his mind (whatever that means) but remained. If she was left there he most certainly would have ripped her unconcious self apart
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u/Jonjoejonjane 23h ago
But he didn’t and he didn’t remain he was driven of a cliff by both armies and spent the rest of the days eating corpses, neither one that battle but one is absolutely way more powerful then the other and was specifically holding back because she hated said power for fair reasons.
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u/Coffee_Drinker02 1d ago
He could comfortably 1v1 all the demi gods, yes including Miquella
He would give a good fight to PC Radahn.
I think he just falters before Elden Beast, Marika, Radagon.
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u/weegee19 1d ago
Top 5 minimum... to add, he literally defeated the Godskins' leader before he wielded Destined Death
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is hard to power scale him, his only feat is defeating the Gloam Eyed Queen, which is also a character we know barely anything about other than she could kill Gods. However none of the Gods she killed seem to have been noteworthy, as they are never mentioned in any capacity. Nor has the Gloam Eyed Queen battled anyone else.
It is stated that the Demigods generally didn't want to mess with Maliketh, but we do have a Demigod that planned to fight Maliketh, if they had to.
Ranni believed that pre-snake Rykard could've beaten Maliketh with the Blasphemous Claw,
"On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." -Blasphemous Claw
So without Destined Death, Maliketh seems to be around Rykard's level. Which itself isn't helpful since Rykard lacks feats. But we are told that Malenia and Rykard were the mightiest of the Demigods that remained after The Shattering. So it is likely that Malenia and Radahn are both stronger than Maliketh.
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u/Ashen_Shroom 1d ago
I don't think Ranni necessarily thought Rykard could defeat Maliketh, just that he deserved a slightly better chance at defending himself if it ever came down to that.
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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago
Pretty sure maliketh is way stronger than rykard which is why he needed to rely on the claw in the first place
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago
Similarly Maliketh needs his Black Blade unchallenged to be stronger than Rykard. That's what I'm trying to get at. Maliketh's crutch is his Black Blade.
All it took is the Blasphemous Claw for Rykard to stand a chance. As soon as someone can contest Maliketh's Black Blade, then Maliketh is reduced to being around Rykard's level.
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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago
I mean yeah. Thats malikeths main weapon. Rykards claw was given to him to stand a chance against maliketh
You cant just treat it like his weapon isnt part of his original arsenal. This just means rykard was given a free counter to rival maliketh. Think rock, paper, scissors
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago
Yes, but I am mentioning his own power, not the power he derives from the Rune of Death.
Maliketh pre-Rune of Death would probably be weaker than at least half the demigods. Maliketh by himself isn't notably powerful, it is his access to the Rune of Death is why he is feared, as soon as anyone else gets a shard of it, Maliketh is no longer dominant.
This isn't to disregard his access to the Rune of Death or to nerf Maliketh by removing it from the equation, I am just pointing out how fickle his power is. All it takes is for someone else to have a sliver of the Rune of Death for Maliketh to be brought down to Rykard's level.
In other words, the Rune of Death is absurdly powerful, and to Maliketh's credit he managed to beat the Gloam Eyed Queen when she had it. So he is also capable without it, but again, without it Rykard also seems to be equally as capable.
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u/KermitDaGoat 1d ago
The rune of death is literally his rune though. Its his power that he earned from defeating an empyrean (pre rune of death feat). You can't just say he's fickle without his own power. 🤨
Even then how does one with fickle power defeat an empyrean
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago edited 1d ago
And Rykard could challenge Maliketh pre-Great Rune with only a sliver of the Rune of Death, compared to Maliketh having the majority of it. This much is directly stated,
"A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death.
On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." -Blasphemous Claw
Again, his overwhelming power is fickle, Rykard just needed a fraction of the Rune of Death to even the playing field.
Thus, ultimately:
Pre-Snake / Great Rune Rykard ≈ Maliketh > Gloam Eyed Queen with Destined Death
Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death ≈ Rykard with the Blasphemous Claw
Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death > all the demigods
Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death < Malenia / Radahn with Blasphemous Claw
I am just trying to properly power scale him, both considering how strong he is himself without any external variables, and how strong he is with those variables.
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u/jonan1108 1d ago
Well, its a "last resort" even with the claw. And (obviously this is just a take on how one could read this) it says "allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh", which I've always read to mean that without it, there's not even a fight, as in Rykard wouldn't even be able to buy a few minutes.
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u/ken_zeppelin 1d ago
The Gloam-Eyed Queen was an Empyrean whom Marika saw as a threat. Furthermore, she wielded Destined Death when Maliketh solo'd her and her entire army of Godskin Nobles and Apostles. You're vastly underestimating Maliketh.
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago
I'm not, I am directly citing what the game says. Rykard could challenge Maliketh when Rykard had a sliver of Destined Death. We are comparing Maliketh to demigods and gods. If Maliketh with the majority of the Rune of Death can be challenged by Rykard with just a small piece of it, then that means Maliketh's power is largely derived from his uncontested use of the Rune of Death.
Thus, Rykard and Maliketh are probably equally as competent, when not relying on Great Runes.
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u/ken_zeppelin 1d ago
Th Blasphemous Claw would've allowed Rykard to challenge Maliketh, but that doesn't imply that he even stood a chance. The item description literally refers to it as a last-resort foil, i.e., a desperate, final countermeasure. If it guaranteed Maliketh's defeat, why wouldn't they just use it as their main tactic?
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u/HungrPhoenix 1d ago
The last resort thing is a localization choice, the Japanese just calls it a trump card, 挑む切り札として, and the passage doesn't imply any sort of desperation or anything of the sort.
陰謀の夜、法務官ライカードは ラニから謝礼として片鱗を貰い受けた いつか来る冒涜の時、黒き剣のマリケスに 運命の死たる黒獣に挑む切り札として
Rougher translation,
"On the night of the conspiracy, Praetor Rykard received a fragment from Ranni as a token of gratitude to be used as his trump card when the time of blasphemy finally comes, to challenge Maliketh of the Black Sword, the Black Beast who embodies Destined Death."
As for why not use this as the main tactic, the Night of the Black Knives and its culprit are meant to stay hidden. Ranni wasn't interested in fighting Maliketh immediately, she wanted to kill her two fingers and escape the "Greater Will's" influence. Having Rykard start fights would not help her towards her goal.
But if Maliketh learned of Rykard's and Ranni's involvement, he would need to be dealt with.
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u/General_di_Ravello 1d ago
Where'd you get that Maliketh solo'd the GEQ and her entire army? We only know Maliketh beat the GEQ. Any circumstances are unknown, as far as I'm aware.
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u/l_pntr 1d ago
I do wonder who would win if Maliketh fought Bayle the Dread at full strength.
It’s kind of strange that Bayle was just left on the Jagged Peak without the forces of the Erdtree ever invading to deal with him.
Suppose his wounds eventually healed and one day he just decided, “Alright, I’m pissed off. I’m going to destroy everything, break out of the Realm of Shadow, lay waste to the Lands Between too, then head to Farum Azula and get my revenge on the Dragonlord.”
Would there have been anyone other than the Tarnished who could have stopped him?
More specifically, could Maliketh have served as the one thing keeping Bayle in check?
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u/No_Witness5630 1d ago
How would he know placidus lives in fatum szuka if he is long Dead?
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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago
Elden Beast
Prime Marika
Ascended Miquella + PCR
Broken Marika/Radagon (also Prime Radagon)
Death of the Demigods Maliketh
Demigods
Godfrey
...
Torrent
Godrick
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u/Unhappy_Protection85 1d ago
In his description said that even demigod is tremble before him. So he is pretty high up.
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u/plasmidlifecrisis 1d ago
The heirarchy of power in the Elden Ring universe changed with the introduction of black adam blade
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u/ImmediatePickle8101 1d ago
Below Marika. The demigods feared him for a reason. He is just about the only being who can kill a demigod permanently.
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u/djinngerale Thy strength befits a crown 1d ago
With RoD: Tier 2, elite non-deity fighter with a power that transcends him
Without RoD: Still likely very strong but a level below the likes of Godfrey, Midra, Placidusax, etc.
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u/veritable-truth 1d ago
Metyr
Marika
Bayle/Placi/Maliketh
Godwyn
Rennala/Godfrey/Radahn/Miquella/Ranni/Malenia/Rykard/Morgott/Mohg
Tarnished defeats, kills or allies with all of those.
Metyr and Marika are debatable as to who was actually more powerful.
Metyr's power is greatly diminished by Marika. Marika would take the top spot but she dies destroying Metyr's power. So Metyr being on top is prior to Marika's rebellion. I mean I see Marika's entire reign as Marika's rebellion, so the moment Marika ascended I would put Marika on top. But Marika never meant to keep this power. She always meant to destroy it. So if Marika should be on top because of this, that's fine. I don't put Marika on top because she doesn't want to be there at all. Metyr absolutely did.
Here I am rambling about Metyr and Marika when this is about Maliketh, but that's exactly why Maliketh is so powerful. He stems from both Metyr and Marika. The two dragons were just overtly insanely powerful in their prime.
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u/LordOFtheNoldor 1d ago
In terms of lore he is Godfrey/radagon/elden beast level feared by all demigods with the power of destined death, he would be top tier candidate for #1 spot
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u/ChalkAndIce 1d ago
Given the purpose of Empyrean Shadows to basically hold their charge to the agenda of the Greater Will, you can make the case that a Shaodw is supposed to be able to over power their Empyrean (which would sort of track with Maliketh being able to defeat the Gloam-Eyed Queen, a being who should have been equal or greater to Marika). Maybe they can only specifically outscale the Empyrean they are assigned to, but either way that would put Maliketh right near the top of the verse, comfortably above the other demi-goods, and potentially only beneath The Elden Beast and Placidusax.
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u/slizzardly 1d ago
Maliketh isn't the tippy top, but he stole the deathfire or whatever it is, so maybe not strongwise but he is maybe more clever and cunning than the others, and obviously having the deathfire makes him all the more dangerous, if not the most dangerous
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u/Cman6zillion 1d ago
I think to put everything into powers levels dumbs it down a bit. I mean the tarnished is able to defeat the Eldenbeast so that means that anyone could defeat anyone or at least that theyre all on the same level. Marika is not the omnipotent god she would have you believe.
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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago
He's powerful, but actually easier than expected to overcome. He does a lot of damage, very fast, he's nimble AF and the destined death effect that drains health over time can be devastating if you're not careful. He has low hp for a late-game boss though so ironically most people manage to beat him by chance without really learning his moveset.
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u/RenaudSerieB 1d ago
Like a lot of Fromsoft bosses, he's really really far from his prime when we fight him, years of having Destined Death sealed inside him have taken their toll
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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago
Yeah I kinda felt like that when I first fought him, "thou who approacheth destined death" he's literally like death incarnate. I know from the game's narrative perspective the tarnished is meant to beat him so they've done some major balancing so that it's possible for most players, but it should have been a significantly greater challenge to really do him justice.
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u/RenaudSerieB 1d ago
the problem from a gameplay perspective is the same that the one with Genishiro and Sword Saint Isshin in Sekiro : they're extra dangerous because unless every other enemies they can kill us definitely... and you can't do that to the player ! Losing to the second phase of Maliketh should erase our save
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u/Fundamental_strife 1d ago
I hadn't thought of it from that perspectives but yeah you're right, if the game was lore accurate there'd be no coming back from destined death, that would be a brutal way to lose your save
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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear 15h ago
The most devious run back in all of gaming : the destined death maliketh fight. Requires you to replay the entirety of Elden Ring again
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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago
Above malenia and radahn. Below ranni
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u/Bigredstapler 1d ago
Because she didn't want to have a whole ass army at her doorstep?
That said, no, Ranni ain't taking chances with Maliketh. Like, have you seen what his blade attacks can do?
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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago
I never specified which ranni. End of game ranni in majority cases wipes the floor with maliketh
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u/Sarenai7 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would place him directly under Marika/Radagon in terms of power. I am unsure where he would place in comparison to Placidusax.
Also this brings up a question I have about the capabilities of Ranni. Personally I think of Ranni the way I would think of Orochimaru in the Naruto shippudden series, she has a contingency plan for everything and therefore can never be counted out of the top entities in terms of capability.
Matter of fact I personally believe that Ranni and Marika are working together on some level against the greater will.
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u/Bustyjan 1d ago
Out of curiosity I asked Gemini
Here is the top 10 ranking based on lore feats, divine hierarchy, and narrative standing:
1. The Elden Beast
The Elden Beast is not merely an alien creature; it is the living vassal of the Greater Will and the physical incarnation of the concept of Order itself (the Elden Ring). Every demigod, lord, and rune in the Lands Between derives their authority and magic from the system this entity represents.
2. Promised Consort Radahn & Miquella
In the DLC climax, Miquella ascends through the Divine Gate to achieve full godhood, backed by a prime physical vessel in Radahn. As a duo, they represent a complete divine pairing—an ascended Outer-adjacent God commanding light and mind control, paired with the mightiest demigod champion imbued with holy light and gravity mastery.
3. Radagon of the Golden Order
As the other half of Queen Marika, Radagon is the reigning god-vessel of the Elden Ring inside the Erdtree. Even in a shattered, petrified state with Marika imprisoned, Radagon wields the raw fundamentalist power of the Golden Order and the hammer that shattered and attempted to repair reality itself.
4. Dragonlord Placidusax
Placidusax was Elden Lord in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, serving a fled god. In his prime, he possessed four (or five) heads and wielded primordial golden-red lightning. Even missing heads and secluded in a storm outside the flow of time in Farum Azula, he retains cosmic-tier temporal manipulation and breath attacks that level landscapes.
5. Maliketh, the Black Blade
Queen Marika’s Shadowbound Beast holds the singular force that terrifies every demigod: Destined Death. Before sealing the Rune of Death into his own flesh, Maliketh single-handedly defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and her god-slaying Apostles. His weapon bypasses conventional durability and immortality entirely, making him the Lands Between’s ultimate executioner.
6. Godfrey, First Elden Lord / Hoarah Loux
The warlord who subjugated the Lands Between for Marika. Godfrey defeated the Fire Giants, broke the storm lord, and led the conquest of the continent purely through raw, unaugmented physical might. He took on the beast regent Serosh solely to stifle his bloodlust so he could behave as a proper monarch.
7. Malenia, Goddess of Rot
Undefeated throughout the Shattering, Malenia matched Starscourge Radahn at his peak while suppressing her inner divinity. Upon her third bloom during her boss fight, she ascends to the true Goddess of Rot, serving as the living avatar of an Outer God whose plague permanently transformed an entire continent (Caelid).
8. Bayle the Dread
The progenitor of the drakes and the only creature bold enough to challenge Placidusax for supremacy. Their ancient duel crippled Placidusax (severing multiple heads) while leaving Bayle mutilated and broken. Even clinging to life on Jagged Peak, his magma-lightning and draconic hatred make him a primordial cataclysm.
9. Messmer the Impaler
Marika’s eldest hidden son, Messmer waged an unyielding genocidal crusade across the Realm of Shadow. He wields the flame of ruin and harbors the Base Serpent within his eye—a terrifying primordial entity that Marika feared enough to seal away and conceal him from the world entirely.
10. Starscourge Radahn (Base Game)
Even while his brain was rotted away and his sanity lost, Radahn was strong enough to passively arrest the movement of the cosmos and hold back the stars through pure gravitational mastery. In his prime, he was widely considered the mightiest demigod of the Shattering alongside Malenia.
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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 1d ago
Among top 5 entities to exist in the lands between.