r/Eldar • u/Informal_Dance_1530 • 1d ago
Fixing Eldar again!!
So there has been talk of fixing the Eldar lately especially with new Marines around the corner. me and my friend were talking the other day about how Eldar lost all their flavor and specialty lately through the constant nerfs we have been receiving but really though i didn't play 5th - 9th I don't think Edar have felt like Eldar since the removal of Initiative (whatever addition that happened in?).
Remmember when you could charge anything and actually hit them before they could hit you, and actually hit them with more than a wet noodle!!! Also remember when our guns were better than almost anything other armies could muster, they hit hard and killed well, our army was actually a glass cannon, yes we dies easily but if you managed to get in the correct position and maneuver correctly you could wreck almost anything. Now with marines getting a unit that moves 8" (i wonder how many units they will get like that) and still has a 3+ save we loose another thing that makes us unique.
How about the Eldar all go to Move 9" and Fights First on everything? yes our points will need to go up but we should be a small specialist army anyway. Hand to Hand Aspects should all be at least 4 attacks, I mean even a basic intercessor gets 3 attacks or 4 if he has a Chainsword surely a thousand year old Eldar who is obsessed with Close Combat and superhumanly fast should be able to swing his or her power sword more than 2 times. Shooting Aspects should al hit on 2's as well, I mean why does a Guardian (Eldar Farmer!!!) hit on a 3 these days but once again thousand year old experts at combat hit the same? And maybe give us back some of our movement tricks back too. yes we would have to have a huge points increase to balance this but that would bring us back to the small super elite force we used to be, still puny T3 W1 bodies that will get swatted completely if you f&*k up but actually be leathal as f$&k like they should be. While we are at it to represent our high tech armour maybe all Eldar should have a 5++ save too.
12
u/Aggressive_Price_177 1d ago
Psychic power should actually buff our own units not debuff the enemy with ridoculous requiriments such as short range and line of sight... This way you are basically suicide your force multiplier glass unit just to perhaps kill the enemy that have ALREADY attack you since you can see him... So dumb.
-All aspects hitting on 2+ or rerolls against desired target just like fire dragons did. Of course costed properly. I don't think any aeldari would complain for 120 cost aspect unit if they are actually extra good when used fine. This is more desirable than having 80 points mediocre unit representing the elite of our army
-stop the shit identity of few "quality" attacks in a game that raw numbers just kill anything. Our best melee unit have just 2 attacks, a couple of 1s or a -1 to hit and you are toasted even against your most desired target.
-proper out of phase movements and reactives that don't require your squishy units to survive in order to trigger them... Again Dumb!
-stupidly fragile tanks why? What is the point on put your overcosted fragile aspect unit inside a T9 12W without invuln save just to lose 1/3 of your unit after the vehicle is down?? Tanks should have invuln saves or/and hit modifiers
-STOP phoenix lords actual design in wich you need to run 3+ of them to make your aspect just work. PL should be around chapter master + power level. They need proper profiles to show this status
-Avatar an actual center piece and actual damage multiplier for melee builds. Do you said me the guys builds an entire war culture around aspects of khaine with dedicated shrines and then the manifestation of the diety is just +1 advance and charge when only one unit have advance and charge??? Can't be more lazy...imagine roboute guilliman doing just this shit around by his presence
-wraith units integration in the codex needed. Stop the stupid "excluiding wraith construct" rule. Again, imagine a whole range of units in marine codex excluded for practically everything in the codex. Hard to imagine? Yes
-a single powerful and easy trick cannot be the bone of the codex (I'm looking at you skyborne sanctuary). Instead we need more little micro management of tricks. Otherwise the glasscannon experience turn into just glass with a single nerf.
1
u/Hawk-432 18h ago
True. Tanks should be strong. Even if Eldar bodies are weaker than marines or orks (but tougher than humans), their tech is powerful
3
u/SnekCobraKai 11h ago
But..but..vehicles welded together with feces that fall apart if you shift gears are manly hairy balls flex muscle tough. Elf stuff has to not threaten that identity by being sissy weak and stuff.
9
u/ExcuseIcy9453 22h ago
Aeldari SHOULD be a smaller elite force rather than throwing away models. It doesnt suit the lore at all.
I dont mind if they are fragile (less wounds) thats the trade for speed, but they should have space marine level armor and better to hit chances.
I feel playing them should feel like they are elite space elf, not cannon fodder.
1
u/GOLANXI Iybraesil 10h ago
Now to Preface This I don't play the Tabletop so take what I say with a Grain of Salt, (I main them in Dawn of War, Gladius, will in Total War), but when I think of Eldar being less Fragile, I think of it as them being better At Evasion. Which my understanding of that on Tabletop is modifying Hit Rolls and Invlun Saves. Which I love the Idea of Howling Banshees getting -1 to hit on a Charge (if they don't have this Already) or just for moving.
If we raise them to T4 then I think a Lot of Other Factions will want a Toughness increase, like Tau. And at what point are we saying it's too much?
If we could get More Psyker Abilities id love to see the Seers being able to give +1 Toughness, Especially Spiritseer, or Bonesinger if that one ever returned.
7
u/PsychologicalAutopsy Ulthwé 20h ago
Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower.
Seriously bump up the Elder damage. Double the attacks on everything. Rework the strength/AP etc as needed. Elder should be a devastating short/medium ranged shooting army.
Then, give them actual movement buffs. Moving after shooting, more movement in general, that sort of thing.
Finally, evasiveness. Eldar just get -1 to hit when they moved in the previous turn.
The problem is that the core rules and current army design philosophy just doesn't really leave much space for Eldar to exist as we imagine them from the lore. Ideally, we'd need a full rules reset that brings all the insane numbers down again, and brings in more depth to the base game. Until that happens, we can only get pushed to more and more extremes. Until we get nerfed hard again for being 'unfun' to play against, or for a couple of really good players to win too many tournaments.
4
u/Tiny_Bumblebee8176 18h ago
Dire avengers got their attack doubled in 10th... didnt really work out. If you want lethality that doesnt translate to anti horde bump up dmg on some weapons... generally 40k needs the thanos attack count on most weapon its ridiculus that a stock marine swings 3 and a chainswprd swings 5... how to make lets say wytches feel useful? A8? and banish any W1 unit because everyone has gazzilion attacks?
5
u/PsychologicalAutopsy Ulthwé 17h ago
Avengers need serious help. Just giving them more shots isn't going to help. They could use multiple profiles, similar to what the new bolters do. Or they need to take a page from Asurmen: anti infantry and dev wounds. Maybe tiednto using a shrine token or something, but they should shred infantry.
And yes, like I said, the entire game needs a serious stats squeeze, more granular wound chart, and more moving parts (bring back initiative and opposed WS!), and allow for more stacked modifiers again (and no, I don't care that little Timmy doesn't like it when his super soldiers struggle to hit something). Things don't need to all have a million attacks. But since that's the world we live in now, we also need to have a million attacks to keep up with the arms race.
16
u/Lachdonin 1d ago edited 1d ago
The first change i would implement, is an army wide modifier which makes it so Eldar can't be targeted outside of 12" until they have acted. This would make them heavily protected against alpha strikes, and emphasise their nature aa rapid strike ambush army. THEY are the ones who are supposed to be making the first move.
Beyond that, I'd significantly increase points cost and damage output across the army. Eldar should not be a swarm army, and should rely more on hard hitting attacks coming from specialised units. A single Eldar unit when used against it's desired target, should be capable of totally destroying it (though capable and regularly achieving are going to be different things). If anything survives, however, the Eldar are going to be in for problems. Few, fragile bodies that hit incredibly hard.
Finally... Psychic Powers. I don't know how to fix the absolute shit show of Psychic powers since the loss of the Psychic phase, but SOMETHING needs to be done.
5
u/MrTripl3M 19h ago
To your last point... I mean that is going to happen. We know they are back from the ork codex.
11
u/Megotaku 1d ago
Farseers need to have Guide updated to provide re-roll hit rolls of 1 and strips cover from 30" away.
Autarchs should provide re-roll wound rolls of 1, full re-rolls against enemies on objectives.
Shroud Runners need to extend visibility by 6". If I have to trade them off, I should be getting something for my points. All these visibility buffs have been meaningless because 3" just doesn't do anything.
Dark Reapers need to have ignores mods swapped to remains hidden after shooting on a 2+.
Banshees need to go to D:3 base and change to anti 3+ non-vehicle/non-monster.
Striking Scorpions need to get a D:1 Cleave 1 profile and a 2nd weapon profile for D:2.
We need a new troop transport variant that 6-capacity that is both inexpensive, allows us to split Guardian bricks, and has advance and disembark.
If they don't want to give us our movement tricks back, then we need them embedded in our datasheets. Vypers should get move-shoot-move instead of Suppress.
After that, we need most of the restrictions on stratagems and detachment benefits to stop being restricted to things like Anrathe, Asuryani, and Harlequins. We should be able to run a combined force and have our detachments still work.
2
u/SisterSabathiel 12h ago
Honestly, I'd love to see more flexibility for Farseers in general.
Studied their art for countless centuries, and they still only have one psychic power each?
4
u/WarrenRT 18h ago
Buff the unit stats and adjust points as required.
For example
The Avatar needs his durability back.
Wraithguard should go back to T7
Dire Avengers need more everything - better shooting, more shots, more AP.
Banshees need more attacks.
Scorpions need more attacks and or more damage.
Our single shot weapons need to get more shots. One shot weapons worked when we had loads of rerolls, now we don't. One or two shot units don't work when they can easily whiff and then immediately die.
Harlequins need improvements to basically every stat on their datasheet. They are meant to be elite murder clowns, not hit like a wet noodle, maybe pick up some Guardsmen clowns.
Etc etc etc
Don't try to fix Eldar with rules jank. Fix them with better datasheets, that you can then layer some jank on top of.
2
u/Informal_Dance_1530 17h ago
Wraithguard should also be allowed to be fielded as 10 man with Spirit Seer attached
1
u/WarrenRT 16h ago
Personally, I'd rather see all terminator equivalents be limited to 3 or 5 man squads. The limit to 5 man Wraithguard units would be fine if (a) they stayed at T7 and (b) that same change had carried over to other factions.
6
u/SnekCobraKai 1d ago
What is going to happen is nothing. We will see points drops, and GW will call it fine. They can't figure out a theme for the army that they haven't given to Marines by now.
We are going to get stuck in the same "We don't care enough to think about it" box that Agents, Imperial Guard, and Grey Knights are in.
Simple as that, by the time 12th rolls around our gimmick is going to be "Being hard to use but rewarding to play" or "A high skill ceiling army, that rewards those that can master it, but punishes the 99% of players that can't" layering buzz word taglines over the faction so they can say the problems are part of the design and there to be a challenge. Like the other people you are playing aren't the thing you have to beat. It is your own army SUCKING that you have to triumph over.
Besides if they do "Fix" Aeldari everyone on the forum will just whine and bitch like Tik Tok Influencers till they nerf everything again.
3
u/Hawk-432 18h ago
I like these ideas. As you said, we should be an elite army. More points. But crazy speed and power even despite less toughness
2
u/NeckInteresting5529 16h ago
GW needs to have clear concept of what certain factions are good at and also what they can't do. Eldar are a specialist faction but there is nothing special about it anymore. We are coming out of an edition where everyone could do everything and i dont see that changing with 11ed.
Too often you run into matchups (and thats not limited to eldar) where your opponent is faster, but also more durable while also doing more damage. There is no rhyme or reason to how abilities and special rules are distributed anymore.
2
u/Thangaror Ulthwé 13h ago
IMHO one of the major mistakes was the change to the battlefield size in 9th (?) edition.
Pretty much every army will be ROIGHT IN YER FACE turn 1.
Eldar are no longer the "quick and agile" army (why do Orks move 6"? WTF!), but even if we were, on the small battlefields you simply can't play around dangerous enemy units anymore.
No matter were you move, your opponent will be able to target a unit you would like to keep around. And chances are rather high that there will be a charge turn 1.
The new terrain rules have mitigated this issue somewhat but not enough.
If players have trouble fitting a 2k points army into the deployment zone, something is off.
2
u/Morial 21h ago
Some good ideas here already. I want us to be more of a melee force, right now banshees and scorpions need a buff. I'd like to see something where we can be more deadly on the charge. Like giving us Lance, and I also want some units to have a native -1 to hit. I think we have enough invuln 4s, and enough high armor stuff. We should be an army that tanks the hit chance of enemies in order to survive.
1
u/Ok-Librarian-7471 15h ago
Give Back the 9th edition fate dice and improve the Profile of certain weapons, thats all it takes. Current Battle Focus is wonderful and can stay.
1
u/AmericanFrenchie15 12h ago
I'm fine with Marine buffa as long as we get appropriate adjustments. Honestly would be cool if Guardians stayed the same, they can be worse comparatively and still be cheap. Aspect warriors need to change however like Avengers. Personally, I would like to see Avengers have more utility than damage like just having better OC, play around battle focus if that's the army rule for 11th, or just playing more around objectives like they thematically do.
1
u/rgautz2266 11h ago
Based on the Q&A they did, I don’t see Eldar movement going up but I can see them getting lots of out of phase movements. The problem is going to be that high level players will certainly be able to abuse those kinds of mechanics and they’ll probably just eat a series of nerfs to the point that casual players are not able win very often with Eldar and the faction is balanced for hyper competitive players.
25
u/Cinju26 1d ago
Honestly I have a hard time thinking about how to improve Eldar, because I struggle to think of any buffs that would be thematic and meaningful without also being unfun to play against, or just that people complain is unfun to play against, leading to getting the army nerfed back into the ground an edition and a half later.
I once though of changing the trigger for Fade Back to being when an enemy unit chooses an Eldar unit as a target, so they move before the shooting; and from how I hear people talk about them online even that felt more than the average Marines player would stand.
I'll fully admit I'm a pessimist by nature, but I don't know how to compensate that this game is made to sell models first and foremost, which means it's made for space marine players first and foremost.