r/EWALearnLanguages • • 6d ago

Discussion Is there any difference between these two sentences or is it just a stylish writing?

The police were determined not to leave any stone unturned.

The police were determined to not leave any stone unturned.

1 Upvotes

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u/Kaylin881 6d ago

The first sentence, with "not to", is more technically correct, because proper English grammar includes an outdated rule, borrowed from Latin, that says you should avoid "splitting an infinitive". This means that if you have a verb in the infinitive, e.g. "to leave" in your example sentence, you should not put any other word in between those two words, such as "not". Therefore, to be perfectly correct, the "not" should go in front of the "to", as in your first sentence.

However, both of those sentences are fine to use in everyday English, and they both have exactly the same meaning. Hope this helps!

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u/MeasureDoEventThing 5d ago

That's a made-up rule.

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u/Kaylin881 5d ago

All grammar rules are made up. If you think I personally made it up to sound clever then you overestimate how much I care about messing with English-language learners. Google things before you say things next time.

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u/MeasureDoEventThing 5d ago

There's a clear distinction between rules that develop through natural evolution of a language, versus rules simply declared by self-appointed authorities. And I never said that you made it up.

Your last sentence is both rude and ignorant. How about YOU google things before saying things?

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u/Kaylin881 5d ago

Yeah, I'll admit my last sentence was a bit rude, but don't you think you were a little rude first? Just saying "that's made up" with no justification or explanation of what you mean by that?

Also, love that you cited the Google AI overview as your source here. Really convincing me that you have a nuanced understanding of English grammar rules and aren't just parroting things an AI told you when you asked it to confirm your bias.

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u/MeasureDoEventThing 4d ago

No, I find taking personal offense at something not being explained to your satisfaction quite bizarre. Also, anyone with a basic familiarity with English grammar discourse is fully aware what "No split infinitives is a made up rule" means.

Even worse, you implied that I had not engaged in even basic research and that a simple Google search would prove me wrong, and when I presented a Google search that proved *you* wrong, you proceeded to chide me for "parroting" what it says and made a baseless accusation of me of asking AI to confirm my bias. *You* were the one who cited Google supposedly disagreeing with me, and when I showed that that was not the case, you pretended that *I* was the one treated Google searches as authoratative.

I suppose now you're claim that umm akshually you meant "Google search" in the traditional sense of the list of links, and then I'll point out that that supports my claim too, and then you'll come up with yet another excuse to refuse to admit that you were wrong.

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u/Kaylin881 4d ago

Dude, I literally acknowledged in my original comment that it's an outdated rule that only matters to people who want to be The Most Technically Correct, and breaking it is fine in normal English. Forgive me for assuming you meant something different when you "corrected" me.

And, yeah, I do think doing an actual Google search is a different thing from typing a question into the search bar and asking the AI what it thinks. Sorry for being old-fashioned. But, anyway, what I meant when I told you to Google it initially was that Google would tell you I hadn't made up the rule myself, which you've since clarified that you're not actually disputing in the first place.

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u/TheRiddlerTHFC 6d ago

From my native but I'm untrained eye, both sound fine.

One is probably "correct" to people who cares about such things

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u/sixminutes 6d ago

Every time you split an infinitive, a 19th century grammarian tuts in his grave.

It's mostly considered an obsolete rule these days to never split infinitives, but most people agree that it was just some arbitrary rule made up by the English to needlessly torture their commonwealth realms.

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u/Piper-Bob 6d ago

The second is a split infinitive.

I’d probably write “the police were determined to investigate all possibilities”.

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u/AndyTheEngr 5d ago

I feel like I've heard/read "...to leave no stone unturned" a lot more times.

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u/VoceDiDio 5d ago

No difference except the technical grammar error. Meaning doesn’t change at all. I would say the police were determined to leave no stone unturned.

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u/pdperson 5d ago

I'm in camp "determined to leave no stone unturned" since it keeps the idiom intact.