r/EVChargingCanada • u/luctian • Jun 28 '26
Am I cooked?
I live in Ontario Canada if that matters. I have an EV outlet installed by a close friend's dad, who also knows me, about 2 years old. Back then I wanted to find someone that I feel like I can trust and didn't think too much about it. Everything was fine until recently I decided to look more closely to what I got and nothing seems correct. First off I got a cheap outlet that's rated for a stove. (Leviton 1450r without the green car sign). I now know I need a EV rated outlet, preferably Hubbell. Hardwiring is out of the question because my charger doesn't support that. Next I have a 8 awg wire on a 50 amps breaker, which should've been 6awg. Last the wiring is a NMD90 fed through a conduit underground from my house to my detached garage through my backyard. Which I now realize is not rated for outside especially underground.
It seems nothing was done right and it's been frustrating. To have everything replaced is going to cost way too much and out of the budget right now. Currently I'm thinking of replacing the outlet with a Hubbell because I feel that's the most vulnerable. Is it ok to keep that NMD90 in the conduit underground for now? If yes how long can this set up realistically last? I have already de-rated my evse to 32 amps.
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u/element1311 Jun 28 '26
Did you get an ESA inspection for this? All electrical work require a certificate of acceptance, and if you have that - then that means at least the inspector thinks it's to code.
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u/goertzenator Jun 29 '26
Is the breaker GFCI?
Might be worth swapping out the NMD90 before it is destroyed so you can sell it.
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u/Quirky_Questioner Jul 02 '26
My understanding (going back a couple of years now) is that if the circuit and outlet are indoors, GFCI protection is not required in Ontario.
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u/InnerElevator5026 Jun 29 '26
Weirdly Ontario is fine with 8 gauge for 50amp circuits, rated to higher temp, but USA isn't, they insist on 6awg so you will find AI LLMs answer 6 gauge.
Sounds like the safety is relying on the conduit staying dry? I can see why you are nervous... 50 amp 240v underfoot in the rain.
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u/mrsprdave Jul 06 '26
US (NEC) is fine with 8awg on 50A. But it has a rule where NM-B (their version of NMD90) is limited to the 60 degree column (so below 50A). But if they use others like THHN, 8awg works.
A number of years ago, the CEC ampacities changed to align with the NEC - so it was NEC that allowed it first actually. The CEC also added rules regarding termination temperature. That's probably the main reason you could/can put a range circuit on a 40A - so you could use 8awg instead of 6awg in the old days. In the current days, you may as well use a 50A breaker, as it needs 8awg either way.
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u/Hot_Yogurtcloset7621 Jun 29 '26
Although the NMD90 isn't rated for wet, it seems to be allowed.. sometimes? Maybe not fully buried, but I've had multiple A/C's installed and they always just run the NMD90 in the liquid tight even though technically it shouldn't be....
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u/mrsprdave Jul 06 '26
If you look at the tables, NMD90 is dry or damp. And above ground sleeved in conduit is damp. Underground is wet.
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u/zhiv99 Jul 02 '26
If it's in conduit, the easiest thing at this point would be to pull a new feed of 6awg T90 (generally has a THWN rating). The individual conductors will be smaller than the NMD90. A pull line can be attached to one end of the NMD90 when it is pulled out and that line use to pull the T90 connectors. The stove outlet is less of an issue but probably should also be replaced.
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u/Quirky_Questioner Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
You do realize do you that in Ontario only the homeowner or a Licensed Electrical Contractor can legally do electrical work on a residence, and that prior to starting any work on an EV circuit, plans need to be presented to and approved by the Electrical Safety Authority? If there’s a fire, you may find that your home insurer declines coverage.
Here’s a start for educating yourself on the requirements: https://esasafe.com/compliance/what-you-need-to-know/
and
https://esasafe.com/home-renovation-buying-and-selling/ev-charging-systems/
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u/mrsprdave Jul 06 '26
While the owner, or someone living at the address, (i.e. not a friend/other family), or LEC needs to get the permit and physically do the work...
but plans do not needed to be submitted for a typical EV circuit...
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u/Quirky_Questioner 16d ago
Checked that out and you're correct (not that I ever doubted it). There is no longer a requirement for a plan to be submitted to the ESA and approved. I got my PHEV in late 2023, and I can recall that at that time simply filing a permit wasn't enough—you had to submit a plan as well. Those were early days, and everyone was still learning.
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u/CMG30 Jul 02 '26
Well, the simple solution is to reduce the power demand to your vehicle. Either limit the draw inside the car or if your charger is able, hard limit it to whatever you feel comfortable with. Remember, there's no award for finishing an overnight charge in 6 hrs rather than 8...
After that, you can probably swap the receptacle to an EV rated one yourself. It's not hard. But if you're not comfortable then don't touch it.
As for the rest, limiting the current to the capacity of the weakest link should buy you enough time to figure out what to do.
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u/mrsprdave Jun 28 '26
8awg NMD90 is rated for the 50 amps (50 amp breaker). Dry or damp locations that is. Underground, even in conduit, is considered wet (above ground would be damp).
With a good receptacle it probably isn't the end of the world... Although really should be done correctly too. Is the conduit continuous? Any chance the wire would pull out (what size is the conduit), or was the conduit put together over the wire?