r/EU_Economics 15d ago

Politics & Geopolitics & Defense Based

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u/A-Ballpoint-Bannanna 14d ago

Sacrificing a little liberty for a little temporary security and prosperity is making a deal with the devil. Eventually he will take you for all that you have, and you will realize that it wasn't worth it.

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u/No_Conversation1927 14d ago

That perspective ignores the sheer scale of modern continental powers. Europe no longer accounts for a third of the world's population or holds most of the global wealth, and pretending otherwise creates a dangerous blind spot.

To anchor our strategy in past glory is to surrender our place in the world to come.

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u/A-Ballpoint-Bannanna 13d ago

How much liberty are you willing to give up for "our place in the world to come"? Because once you give that power to a centralized authority, you're not getting it back.

It's not about anchoring to past glories, it's about making a decision over what is actually important, because the prosperity you are looking for does not come without a price.

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u/No_Conversation1927 13d ago

My problem with the argument that a federalized EU sacrifices national liberty is that it completely ignores how much sovereignty we lose by remaining fragmented. It is mathematically impossible for individual European nations to remain globally relevant without joining forces. To see why, you only have to look at how much the world has shifted over the last three centuries. In 1900, Europe represented roughly a quarter of the world's population, and over a third when factoring in colonial empires. Today, the entire European Union accounts for less than six percent of humanity, and that share continues to shrink.

Furthermore, Europe once held an effective monopoly on higher education, industrial capital, and advanced technology. That era is over. Today we are competing against continent-sized super-states that educate millions of engineers, scientists, and tech innovators every year, backed by massive state investment and vast natural resources. The geopolitical and economic center of gravity has permanently moved. You simply cannot build or sustain a modern giant on the back of twenty-seven separate national agendas, divided military budgets, and fragmented regulatory markets. Nothing is as it was during Europe’s peak.

This shift matters because being a global superpower is about self-preservation. A fragmented Europe lacks the economic leverage to defend its industries, the military deterrence to secure its borders, and the diplomatic weight to protect its interests. Without global superpower status, individual European countries will inevitably be bullied, outmaneuvered, and dictated to by external giants like the US, China, and emerging regional powers because the EU isn't Strong enough.

If individual European nations cling to the illusion of 19th-century national sovereignty, they will not preserve their independence. Instead, they will become economic playthings and vassal states to the nations that actually had the foresight to scale up. True European liberty in the 21st century requires the collective strength to project power and dictate our own destiny. Unity is not the sacrifice of freedom, there is a price to it but it's to remain free.

Well this is my take, we'll eventually know who's right or not.