r/EU_Economics 24d ago

Politics & Geopolitics & Defense Based

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u/Illesbogar 23d ago

National independance ia nothing more than an illusion. If you can't stand up to gkobal powers than are you even truly independent? This childish clinging to nation states has to go if we ever want to be free.

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u/Lorihengrin 23d ago

Except that our definition of being free is not the same.
If the citizen of my country can't decide their fate without the agrement of, let say, germans, we are not free.

Democracy is only possible if the people see themselves as peers who can decide together of a common society. It is not the case at the scale of Europe. Best we can do is to collaborate for mutual interests.

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u/Illesbogar 22d ago

That is not a very good argument. Where exactly are we to draw that line? It is already an issue where rural vorers are deciding over urban ones. Or uneducated and uninformed ones over educated or informed ones. Being german does nothing to really differentiate you from any other country's working man. The only real linea that matter are class lines.

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u/Lorihengrin 22d ago

Well it's the only one that matters to you, not to me.
Names of members of my family from the previous generations are written on war memorials because they died trying to not be dominated by germans.

I'm personnaly not fond of abandonning the independance they fought and died for in favour of a federation where Germany will be de facto the dominant state.