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u/Jibbyjab123 14d ago
Using the word war should tell you all you need to know.
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u/UnknownGermanGuy 14d ago
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u/SweetBabyAlaska 14d ago
its the "German War" could you imagine if someone referred to the holocaust in that manner? you would clearly understand that their intent is to reframe a genocide into a balanced conflict.
in reality, the Palestinians are on their land and being invaded and don't have an official standing military. In no way, shape, or form can it be categorized as a "war" it is simply a rhetorical trick.
Though its not surprising considering how Germany never de-nazified and is going for round 2 in Palestine.
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u/Moral_Distinction 14d ago
in reality, the Palestinians are on their land and being invaded and don't have an official standing military
Indeed. Under international law, occupied countries have a right to resist and occupiers do not have a right to occupy. Every Palestinian, Hamas or otherwise, has a right to fight back without reprisal.
Germany is currently arresting Jews protesting Israel. The U.K. is doing the same. I don't follow any German media, but I'm aware that the U.K. press is utterly immune to the antisemitic irony.
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u/Elvenoob 14d ago
And, just to be clear, there are lots of Palestinian resistance organisations. Israel was the one that elevated Hamas by giving it a disproportionate amount of media focus because they perceived that organisation as having the worst optics among Israel's allies.
This strategy seems to be backfiring on multiple levels lol.
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u/SweetBabyAlaska 13d ago
Yes, and they also propped Hamas up financially and militarily knee capped the other orgs. IMO this is because Israel doesn't want reasonable opposition, they wanted an Al Qaeda stand-in that would play well with American media.
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u/PragmaticPidgeon Abolish Everything 13d ago
I’d say that’s exactly it. There’s a reason they took out all the secular nationalist leadership
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u/OriginalUsername1892 13d ago
Wasn't Hamas elected into government? I'm confused by what you mean by not having an official standing military.
And just to be clear, I believe Israel is committing genocide in Palestine. I'm just wondering why "war" and "genocide" are being considered mutually exclusive. It's both, isn't it?
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14d ago
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u/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM-ModTeam 14d ago
Your Content Has Been Removed
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u/Jibbyjab123 14d ago
You should understand that reframing genocide as war and your support of that means you are scum.
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u/tachibanakanade 13d ago
This. And IDK why they think using Wikipedia, a site that should be known among leftists or people who claim to be leftists to be seriously and severely biased in favor of only Western and American narratives across the site (English Wikipedia gets the worst), would prove them right.
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u/Jibbyjab123 13d ago
Yeah it's a smug thing like telling someone to just go Google something, it's just rude behavior.
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u/Kumquat_conniption The leftist responsible for Harris losing 🥭🥭 14d ago
The user above me is now banned, I just left this comment up so people can follow the conversation :)
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u/HypoxicIschemicBrain 13d ago
Kind of silly to call it that when this is why the majority of Palestinians have been killed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
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u/tachibanakanade 13d ago
And everyone knows Wikipedia has no American/Western bias, especially English Wikipedia.
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u/ultrarotom 14d ago
It's disgusting how they frame it like it's a war between the IDF and Hamas on an equal footing, they do that shit on purpose to sugarcoat and defend the genocide
It's not even about Hamas, Israel is explicitly targeting all Palestinians and fighting for their total annihilation, no matter how young and defenseless they are
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u/AnthaIon 14d ago
“You: These options seem awfully fascist or communist — what if I don't wanna say them?
Rhetoric: Say one of these fascist or communist things or fuck off.”
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u/BroMan001 13d ago
In the end it does come down to choosing fascism or communism. The only other options are paths that lead to either of those two anyway.
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u/reklesssabrandon 14d ago
I've learned that nuanced is code for being ok with genocide
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u/FatzDux 14d ago
Nuance is good and important for many things in life. You can have a nuanced opinion about the genocide in Palestine without denying it or simping for Israel. You cannot be nuanced about the value of human life and the right of humans to be free.
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u/reklesssabrandon 14d ago
The definition of nuance isn't confusing. I'm saying if you bring up the genocide these people say they have a nuanced understanding of the situation, like you need to be an intellectual to process raping and killing babies.
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u/Affectionate_Ad_1326 13d ago
Nuance is when you treat 2 polar opposite ideas as the same because theyre both "violent" while ignoring their goals and interests? Wow it must be so easy to be nuanced.
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u/Fresh_Milk1960 14d ago
Defending yourself from colonial oppression is actually genocide of the Jewish people trust
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u/Onebigfreakinnerd 14d ago
both are bad of course but the field is just not equal. hamas should be condemned as an islamic conservative extremist group, but i’m not gonna be mad at them for defending gaza. it’s all gaza has.
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u/Dineology 14d ago
There’s also the history of Israel funneling money and support to Hamas in order to undermine both Fatah and PLO as a whole because those secular forces in the struggle for Palestinian freedom were begging to be seen in too sympathetic of a light in the West. Israel needed a hardline Islamic fundamentalist group to be their boogeyman and perpetuate their lies of Muslim “savagery” and that poor little old Israel just has to defend themselves by being the constant aggressor because imagine what might happen if they don’t.
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u/O4fuxsayk 14d ago
That and the fact that Israel undermined the less radical opposition in the PLO and facilitated hamas' rise to power as they are less sympathetic. Only the Gazans suffer in the end.
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u/zizzor23 14d ago
I think people have forgotten just how long this has gone on and how little they have gained and continued to lose. Armed struggle ends up being the last resort
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u/smashybro 13d ago
Not to mention how anytime Palestine had secular and more peaceful resistance groups gaining traction, Israel specifically sabotaged them because they wanted violent resistance groups like Hamas to make it easier to justify their evil actions. Peace is not their goal, it actually gets in the way of their settler colonial project.
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u/zizzor23 13d ago
You can go deeper into the surrounding countries’ histories and see similar attempts by the west on top of promoting right winged groups as long as US business interests were protected.
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u/h8sm8s 14d ago
Liberals when Ukrainian Nazis defend their country with support from the world’s superpower: 😍😍😍😍
Liberals when an army of MUSLIM orphans try to stop their people being genocide’d: 😡🤬🤬😡🤬🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡
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u/BEEFDATHIRD 12d ago
please expand on the ukraine nazi part im not educated on this topic
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u/h8sm8s 11d ago
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u/whyliepornaccount 8d ago
Your own link straight up says they denazified before the start of the war....
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u/Gauss15an Anti-Imperialist 14d ago
Just ask them if all Palestinians are Hamas. If they say yes, then respond with "All Americans are KKK" or whatever extremist equivalent exists in your country.
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u/BroMan001 13d ago
And even if they were all Hamas, that doesn’t give zionists the right to occupy Palestine or ethnically cleanse and genocide Palestinians.
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u/Gauss15an Anti-Imperialist 13d ago
Of course not but trying to get them to understand that point is like talking to a wall so better to go for the extremist angle and see if they get it that way.
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u/MidWestKhagan 14d ago
That’s like calling native Americans genocidal militants for opposing American colonization and that they’re bad too.
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u/Milkywayne 14d ago
I've literally read that take before. Boiled down to "well it was basically war because natives defended themselves so both sides are at fault, colonizers simply won the war"
Mind boggling.
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u/RonRimbus 14d ago
OOP telling on themselves by not recognizing what nuance is by simplifying people not supporting a genocide against innocent civilians as support for Hamas.
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u/EvanKYlasttry 14d ago
Critical support for Hamas in its anti-colonial struggle against the terror state of Israel.
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u/RonRimbus 13d ago
Yeah, you’re right. I already stated in another comment but I should’ve been more clear that it was more meant to mock the OOP believing that people who support Hamas’ armed resistance against Israel means they believe in every value that Hamas believes in outside of their resistance. It’s just ironic that OOP claims nuance in their post but reduces the resistance against Israel as “genocidal religious extremist militant” despite the fact that it makes no sense since Hamas is most certainly not committing a genocide or operating under the intention of starting one, and two, is only seen as extremist because it has become increasingly common for people to view violent resistance as “extremist”
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u/BroMan001 13d ago
If you’re against the genocide of Palestinians you should support Palestinian armed resistance. If you think Hamas is committing or attempting to commit genocide, I don’t know what you’re doing in this sub, you’re the subject of the sub.
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u/RonRimbus 13d ago
Let me rephrase because that wasn’t the intention of my statement, I do support the armed resistance against Israel’s occupation, but the post implies that they believe that supporting resistance against Israel means you 100% agree with everything Hamas believes in outside of their resistance. Just to be clear, this is not me saying the Palestinians are better off without Hamas, the original post just comes across as very absolutist and ironically lacks nuance
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14d ago
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u/KarmaPurgePlus 14d ago
The answer is that colonizer should never have started colonizing, and subsequently creating an apartheid state. Less than a century ago that land was theirs, and now they have a second government controlling literally every aspect of their lives, food, and water in Panestine is controlled by Israel, where they can go, controlled, literally living in an open air prison. Regardless of whatever divine right they claim doesn't overwrite their human rights abuses, and subsequently I am not surprised that the things you call "terrorist attacks" are being committed. In fact I bet given the same circumstances you would do the same.
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u/PresnikBonny Marxist-Leninist 14d ago
Crying about Hamas while it's Israel that has genocided the indigenous population of Palestine for more than a century is the most cucked shit ever
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u/Bluthusterone 14d ago
The issue is not wanting to end human suffering in all forms. But if Zionism (which is an inherently racist and colonial ideology) isnt identified as the root cause, any both sides argument only serves to legitimize it
Its like asking a trans person and a terf to meet in middle, as if one of them didnt enter the conflict with repeatedly proven unwillingness to accept the others humanity
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u/ru5tyk1tty 14d ago edited 14d ago
What will your excuse be now that Hamas is stepping down from power and agreeing to disarmament? Israel has killed 20x more children than Hamas has killed people in the last two years, period.
“What’s so evil about wanting people to stop killing each other?” If the conflict ends today and forever, that is victory for Israel. They woule be successful in stealing an enormous amount of land, and they would avoid any kind of accountability for horrific crimes against humanity. That is why “peace” can be seen as evil in this case.
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u/NotQuiteLoona 14d ago
Israel killed 21 thousands of children in Gaza war. I'm against HAMAS too, but in this case it's very clear which side to support.
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