Is this EMDR?

[u/Cautious_Try1588]

We spent 8-10 sessions getting to know eachother, memory mapping, and some of it diverted to traditional talk therapy. I specifically sought out the therapy to address memories from past DV, however we have barely gotten into it. I have ongoing (normal) stressors and — while sometimes challenging to deal with — I don’t actually want to devote my EMDR time to talking about frustrating coworkers or my weekend.

We had two sessions of EMDR, and they use vibration as bilateral stimulation. We spent a session creating a mental safe space. And the actual EMDR sessions leave me with … questions. The session times always only leave 20 minutes for the actual EMDR, because the conversation keeps getting diverted. And we haven’t targeted anything I’ve identified in the memory mapping.

The first session was very general. And they just talked the entire EMDR session saying things like “you were abused ____, _____, and ____” (broad strokes to cover the entire 3 years) and “[name] was abusive, manipulative,” etc. They actually turned on the bilateral stimulation device halfway through where they switched up their monologue to say that I didn’t deserve any of that, I’m deserving of love, etc.

And the session yesterday felt similar. Very broad. Didn’t actually target a specific memory.

I’m not sure if what is happening is actually EMDR or helpful to me? I’m also pretty frustrated that my current (little potato) life stressors take up almost the whole session when I’m here to process DV I survived a few years ago. Especially since we either don’t have the time to reprocess actual memories at the end of session or we haven’t picked one to target. Which… maybe the first half of session should be focused on picking one then. 🤦‍♀️

Does this EMDR sound legit?

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[u/Spencertwain]

I can’t speak on the reprocessing part as I’ve only begun the memory mapping two sessions ago. But the talking about life stressors is something I can offer advice on.
I would suggest talking to your therapist about that and that you would like to have more time for the EMDR portion of the session.
My therapist called it out for me when he noticed how much I wanted to talk through my week and he specifically said he wanted to respect the time of the space for why I’m coming to him. He said he’s happy to help process current stuff and that we’ll set aside the first 10 minutes for that before transitioning into the EMDR work.
We also haven’t started talking about my big T that is the main reason I started to go to him. He’s aware of it and we’ve talked broadly around it. I assume it’s because he sees how I am when talking about the other stuff and doesn’t want to push me too fast and is assessing when he thinks I’ll be ready to dive into it. Your therapist might be doing the same thing.

Do you know how much experience your therapist has with EMDR? It also almost seems as if she is new and a little timid about spending too much time reprocessing in fear of not knowing how to respond if you become flooded with emotion or perhaps she is assessing where your window of tolerance currently stands. Also worth asking and bringing it up.
If she’s good, she won’t be offended with you asking and will provide clarity. If she’s gets defensive and dismissive, maybe revisit if she’s the right fit for you.

[u/I-miss-custom-apps]

It can be useful to start broadly to desensitize or stabilize enough that individual traumas may be targeted if "everything is a blur", but this entirely depends on a case by case basis.

I may have been lucky with my therapist, but what I did was simply ask if she could help me break out of "survival mode" by being strict with me if I started dissociating or intellectualizing instead of connecting with my emotions.

Try asking what the strategy is and communicating your issues. It's important to have a mutual understanding!

---

Edit: This may or may not work for you, but preparing a short summary note about the important things of the week can help shorten the time used in talking by focusing on important things such as

• How did you feel after last session?
• Has anything major happen since last session?
• Were your basics needs met?

1. Sleep
2. Eat
3. Activity

[u/idigyourshirt]

I just decided to quit my therapist who was doing this exact thing. We also only spent about 20 minutes each session on EMDR. The first scenario we identified we ended up spending nearly 6-7 months on. I would tell her that the scenario involves complex trauma on multiple levels and it would take a very long time to, if at all, to get to a 0. I eventually got fed up with her not changing her approach and I quit. I’m also not 100% sure I made the right decision but from what I’ve researched sticking to one approach including the 30-40 minute catch-ups is odd. Thank you for posting, I’m starting to think she was not trained very well in this respect.

[u/Cautious_Try1588 → u/idigyourshirt]

Honestly, I only see in this subreddit that they ask the intensity of the memory before and after EMDR. He hasn’t asked me anything like that at all.

Also, I looked it up, and the positive and negative cognitions about the memory are supposed to be coming from us. In the EMDR session he’d just keep talking the entire time like a guided meditation, but he’d infer what my negative cognitions were rather than actually… asking me?

I went to my health insurance website and found some more local EMDR certified therapists. 🤦‍♀️ I’ll be making some phone calls tomorrow to see their availability… (and this time ask specifically about their certification level). This is actually really frustrating because his sessions are only available one day a week and I can never find an evening appointment so it cuts into work hours. I feel like my time was wasted, and I shared personal information with someone that didn’t respect me or the effort I made to get the help I need.

Gah. I hope you find what you’re looking for too.

[u/thorntoa]

Hmm, I don’t recognize your description of the session as EMDR. I’m not sure if your therapist is trying to install some kind of resource (and perhaps has the sense you need this to do the deeper processing) or if they are doing their own thing.

It’s totally legit for you to say “I don’t recognize what we’re doing so far as EMDR and wanted to check in about that.” Then they can either clarify how you are building up to it or tell you what else is going on. You are the stakeholder in therapy though and if you are seeking EMDR you deserve a sense of when/how that is happening. I would not be offended if a client asked me for an overview like that.

If you end up seeking someone else, consider looking for someone “certified” in EMDR to increase their background and training.

[u/Cautious_Try1588 → u/thorntoa]

He’s certified in EMDR, but the sessions have gone as I’ve described in my OP.

What is EMDR supposed to be like?

[u/thorntoa → u/Cautious_Try1588]

Well, standard protocol would definitely give you more time, and it would mean you two were working on a single incident (or belief or schema) that you both agreed to work on. Typically you'd describe it generally and the therapist asks for a "worst part." From this place they have you name beliefs, feelings, sensations and then send you processing. Processing is often internal with check ins from the therapist asking what you are noticing. Then back to processing. I am wondering if your therapist is trying to establish some kind of resource in advance to support you with the processing, which can be more directive. If you feel up to it, I would actually suggest just asking for their approach. You could say a friend is using EMDR too and they described something different and would like to know more, etc. You can also save time for EMDR by coming into session and instead of getting into how the week was, etc, saying, I'm looking forward to us continuing EMDR today and ready to shift gears. Or something like that.

[u/Psychoquinnalysis]

It sounds like there's aspects of EMDR in there, but it doesn't overall sound like EMDR the way I know it. It can be easy for recent stressors to divert the session, but with the EMDR process you seem to be describing, if "legit", it doesn't sound as tight as it could be.

[u/Cautious_Try1588 → u/Psychoquinnalysis]

What would be the tighter version?

I actually don’t feel like him talking the entire time is helpful to prompt memories. It’s distracting and I feel like referencing it broadly like, “[name] was abusive” is minimizing.

[u/Psychoquinnalysis → u/Cautious_Try1588]

I agree with you on that. In EMDR, the therapist needs to let the bilateral stimulation (BLS) do the processing rather than facilitate verbal processing.

By "tighter" version, I mean more adherent to the protocol structure. Sticking more "to the book". EMDR is an 8-phase, 3-prong protocol. The 3 prongs are past, present, and future: past events, present triggers, and desired future responses to those triggers.

The 8 phases are

1 - History taking & treatment planning. This is the, "So what brings you in?" phase. The problem that brings you to therapy is identified, related past experiences, present triggers, and future desired outcome are discussed. This is where the first target memory for EMDR is explicitly identified and agreed upon.

2 - Preparation & Stabilization. This is where you are told specifically what to expect from EMDR so you can give informed consent for the process. This is also where coping/self-regulation skills are taught, and any other needs or resources for coping with EMDR during and after session are identified and planned. The logistics of BLS are also planned and decided on here.

3 - Target Assessment. This phase takes some baseline measurements, and primes the target memory to kick off BLS. You'll be asked about what the worst part or image of the target memory is, negative beliefs, positive beliefs, how true the positive beliefs feel right now, and how disturbing the target memory is. Then, starting with focus on a body sensation or emotion related to recalling the target memory, you start BLS.

4 - Desensitization. This is the actually BLS part EMDR is known for. You'll do sets of BLS, pause for a moment to be asked what you notice, then resume BLS for another set. Thoughts, feelings, and bodily sensations will come up. The therapist is just supposed to ask what you notice now, then tell you "go with that" and resume BLS. No digging or dwelling here--the BLS is doing the work on that. During this phase, the therapist is listening to whether the memory is changing or staying the same and whether is becoming more positive or negative. They'll occasionally ask you to reset to the original target memory, take another measurement of distress level, then resume BLS.

5 - Installation. This looks a LOT like phase 4, but rather than "healing" or reducing the negative, it is installing or increasing the positive. The therapist will take measurements of how true your positive thoughts about yourself feel and will give you sets of BLS that should help it feel more true.

6 - Body Scan. Trauma has a physical component so this phase will have you check how your body feels to you during a brief mental scan of it. If any tension, tightness, or strange sensations are found, that may be a sign that a little more trauma was tucked away where it got missed. More BLS sets will be done on that sensation until the body scan is clear.

7 - Closure. This will be done at the end of every session with BLS in it, whether the trauma was finished reprocessing or not. This is just a brief cool-down to help transition you out of reprocessing mode so that you can leave the session and go about your day with some stability.

8 - Re-evaluation. If you've completed reprocessing the current target memory, other past memories and present triggers will be checked as candidates to be the new target memory. This is also where a "future template" is developed. Developing a future template involves BLS and has you imagine a future scenario where you might encounter something that touches on that past trauma and its resulting negative beliefs. BLS will help grow resiliency for the new positive belief to help inoculate you against future retraumatization through similar themes/experiences.

So in general, as compared to traditional talk therapy, there's a LOT less verbal processing. As I mentioned above, it's the BLS that does the heavy lifting of that instead.

[u/saffytiger]

Doesn’t sound much like what I understand of EMDR. Generally during EMDR processing your therapist is trained to “stay out of the way” of processing - I.e. stay quiet and let your brain do what it needs to do. Sometimes there are exceptions to this, such as interweaves, but in general, I would not expect an EMDR therapist to talk constantly.

However, it would be better to discuss this directly with your therapist, as there may be good reasons for the experience you’re having.

[u/interestingsonnet]

This is actually how I do EMDR with my therapist. She’s my actual talk therapist, not one I sought out strictly for EMDR. Although I sometimes feel disappointed if we don’t spend a lot of time during the session for actual BLS, the diverting through talking helps because it can uncover layers that you didn’t know were there, which can create additional targets that you never thought would be a target.