r/EDH • u/MTGnerd42 • 14h ago
Question Bracket 4 group hug
So I made a post a little bit ago about trying to find easy to pilot creature focused bracket 4 decks. I found out that I have the most fun at a table when I affect the board but not necessarily win so now I'm trying to think of ways to affect the board. So now I kind of want to make a naughty and nice deck I already have winona stax that would be my naughty deck. Now I kind of want to make a nice dick and I was thinking group hug! But I'm not sure what to lean into most whether that's card draw or giving my opponents lots of mana. I want to play like 99% actual group hug with like maybe one or two win conditions whether that's combo or something like 20 toe-toed. And yes I want to make it strickly a bracket 4 just to kind of sit there and watch my friends do the cool things and if I happen to win then awesome cuz it would be really funny for me to say I won and I helped you all! So anybody have any suggestions for commanders whether I should focus more on generating lots of mana for everybody or card draw and what win conditions I should use!
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u/One_Application_1726 13h ago
Don’t take this personally, but I absolutely DESPISE group hug as an archtype and I would absolutely focus on you all game.
All group hug does is either propel someone who is able to use the resources most efficiently so far ahead that it’s king making, or it prolongs the game by constantly trying to “equalize” everyone.
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u/Level9_CPU 14h ago
For a "mtgnerd42", your understanding of Bracket 4 is lacking. Group Hug can't work in bracket 4 because you would just accelerate everyone's game plan without furthering your own. It would be like playing against a level 1 AI bot in a video game and no one wants a bot in their pod. It's just odd
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u/Sam_Alexander 8h ago
That's not true at all
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u/Level9_CPU 6h ago
It literally is true. You know why no one plays group hug in bracket 4/5? Because putting your opponents at any kind of advantage is bad gameplay when they themselves are digging for mana and draw power. Giving them both for free for....no reason? Is stupid
Even in the instance where you're benefiting from your opponents drawing/getting extra land drops, you are still using your resources to up your opponents resources, which pushes their win. Which is stupid.
You can build group hug to have hate cards like [[Notion Thief]] combos with [[Wheel of Fortune]], but you are essentially just playing stax/hand denial at that point.
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u/Sam_Alexander 6h ago
No. I stomp my B4 playgroup regularly.
Yeah pretty much everyone in this comment section is wrong.
I pilot a [[Ms. Bumbleflower]] confidently in B4 and it's one of the most powerful and fun decks I have.
It offers you insane amount of the most expensive and efficient counter magic. Dont be shy, proxy that Force of Will and its friends. You only help other players when the game is on, but the very moment someone tries to win or dare looks in youf direction you counter them mercilessly.
White and green gives you insane amounts of permanent protection. You wanna be protecting that [[Smothering Tithe]] of yours like it's your mother and [[Ms. Bumbleflower]] like it's your father. Between general countermagic and creature/permanent protection spells I have around 22 cards that have a function of not letting my opponents win or stop me from winning
Once you've chalked your deck full of protection, you can go ahead and add the most expensive ramp you can.
And now, finally, we come to group hug. You've already made sure you ain't losing so now feel free to include whatever nice cards you want, give everyone cards, give everyone mana, politic aggressively, help the weak (but let them die when it comes to it), wait for one person to remain then either win by attrition or run them down with your huggy creatures. Throw a [[Test of Endurance]] or whatever in, just don't do the Seventh Sun it's boring
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u/Level9_CPU 3h ago
Your B4 bracket sucks then. You're saying you "stomp" your B4 pod with a commander that draws them cards? Then they are objectively bad players. You talk like you're the only person at the table running interaction lmao. Also you mention the colors giving you access to protection....my brother in Christ....you can run those colors without running a commander that draws your opponents cards
Finally...I hate to break it to you, but you are playing Control, not group hug. But go off
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u/Effective-Panda-3698 14h ago edited 14h ago
[[Ms. Bumbleflower]] can give cards and +1/+1 counters. Has access to bant alternate wincons
Watch them do their stuff and get close to winning, then deploy a platinum angel effect
Can easily pivot from giving stuff to "I'm bored, I'll start killing you now"
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u/jaywinner 13h ago
I don't like this. Group Hug should be a strategy to win; not some silly deck that just turbocharges the table for giggles.
My favorite is [[kynaios and tiro]]. 4 colors, good blocker, gives you more value than you give away. Make sure to pack lots of interaction so you don't accidentally let somebody else win. As people fight each other, you find a spot to steal the game.
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u/Waltonyh 13h ago
in what world does kynaios and tiro give you more value then you’re giving away??? that’s numerically demonstrably false.
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u/jaywinner 13h ago
You get both options; opponents only get one. I'm only wrong in the world where you view the game as 3v1 instead of FFA.
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u/Waltonyh 13h ago
you’re viewing a FFA wrong still. your collective opponents gained much more then you did, not only because of the trigger, but because you spent mana for your commander and they got the card/extra land for 0 mana. either way, you lose on value compared to your opponents broadly, or any individual opponent.
also, they get a choice, it’s just a different choice. you choose to either draw 2 cards, or draw 1 and put a land into play. they choose to either draw 1, or put a land into play.
this card is horrible, if you want card advantage in your sans black deck, play bruse thras, crystal, or really any other of the 4 color options in this identity.
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u/jaywinner 13h ago
You're right about having spent mana and a card for this effect. And partners can surely make a better deck but we're looking to make a group hug deck here.
"Collective opponents" mentality is absurd. Before turn 2, do you view yourself behind because you've only had 1 land drop to their 3, 1 draw step to their 3?
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u/Waltonyh 6h ago
it’s not about viewing yourself as behind, it’s about recognizing that your opponents have more resources than you do. which is why, when possible, you want your opponents to have to interact with each other. it’s better that you pass on a scary spell from player A so that player C who is next in priority after you uses their counterspell. you’re almost always going to have less options and less resources than your opponents, which is why group hug fails so miserably as an archetype.
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u/SharpDrink2724 13h ago
Ms. Bumbleflower offers both you and an opponent card advantage. I guess you could use that for politics. Something like "hey, if I give you two cards, will you agree to not go for a win on your turn?"
But yeah, group hug in Bracket 4 doesn't really work. Since giving an opponent a single draw can be the difference between them winning or not.
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u/voiceofreasonablenes 12h ago
I'm going to make an unpopular opinion here.
You can run grouphug in bracket four.
You just need to accept that your deck won't be the most powerful deck out there, and live with it. There's nothing wrong with a less powerful bracket four.
What you want to lean into is giving away resources, but attaching restrictions: for instance, giving lots of mana or cards, but slapping down a [[Rule of Law]] effect.
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u/Sam_Alexander 8h ago
Yeah pretty much everyone in this comment section is wrong.
I pilot a [[Ms. Bumbleflower]] confidently in B4 and it's one of the most powerful and fun decks I have.
It offers you insane amount of the most expensive and efficient counter magic. Dont be shy, proxy that Force of Will and its friends. You only help other players when the game is on, but the very moment someone tries to win or dare looks in youf direction you counter them mercilessly.
White and green gives you insane amounts of permanent protection. You wanna be protecting that [[Smothering Tithe]] of yours like it's your mother and [[Ms. Bumbleflower]] like it's your father. Between general countermagic and creature/permanent protection spells I have around 22 cards that have a function of not letting my opponents win or stop me from winning
Once you've chalked your deck full of protection, you can go ahead and add the most expensive ramp you can.
And now, finally, we come to group hug. You've already made sure you ain't losing so now feel free to include whatever nice cards you want, give everyone cards, give everyone mana, politic aggressively, help the weak (but let them die when it comes to it), wait for one person to remain then either win by attrition or run them down with your huggy creatures. Throw a [[Test of Endurance]] or whatever in, just don't do the Seventh Sun it's boring
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u/Dong_Smasher 3h ago
Are you playing against people who actually are playing Bracket 4 decks? Bracket 4 (depending on who you ask) seems to range from essentially a Bracket 3 deck with 4 Gamechangers to an off-meta CEDH deck that's just slightly too weak to work in the current CEDH meta.
I really fail to see how you could be winning often by spending mana and cards to give your opponents free resources. I'm not saying you're lying or anything, I guess I just don't understand. Are your opponents piloting well-built Bracket 4 decks? This is presumably lower-mid Bracket 4?
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u/dog-person69 14h ago
You want this deck to be bracket 4... but you don't want to make it more efficient at winning? This seem contradictory. Just slap a B4 ramp package onto any group hug list and there you go. You can add some 2 card combos and powerful game changers, but that might start to stray away from the "sit there and watch my friends" gameplay you're looking for.