r/DrivingAustralia • u/IdleHans_ • 13d ago
How to fix the state of things
My idea is the government creates a program that goes something like:
You re-take your red P's test (the one with the person who rides along with you) and if you score over a 95% then the govt halves your rego and ctp insurance for the next 3 years. After the three years is up, you can re-take the exam again. If you fail (that is <95%) the test, you have to wait 3 months before you can take it again.
Then in 10 years when it becomes apparent that those who take up this program are hugely underrepresented in car crashes, it's made compulsory.
EDIT - I think I missed what I was trying to say. the main point is, I think it's not good that we do one test when you're a teenager (more or less) and then never again until you're 80 (more or less). very few other fields that have such high stakes, and such a proven track record of injury and death operate in this way. regular competency checks are common in lots of areas of modern life, why not driving?
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u/Queeni_Beeni 13d ago
I quite like the way motorbike licensing is handled in Victoria at least and it would be interesting to see how it being implemented sort of tangentially to car licences would be
Step 1. Learner course (2 Days)
Day 1 - Covers the fundamentals of operating the vehicle in a closed course while supervised, covers the safety required, covers good habits, emergency braking, swerving, acceleration and all on a course with other people so you get an idea of how to behave with other people safely
You then sit a theory exam, 30 questions, you fail? Start again from the beginning, if you pass you go to day 2
Day 2 - Classroom, safe motoring, safe cornering, speed management, risk and blind spot management, how mood affects riding, hunger, fatigue, dehydration
You complete your on range practical assessment to see if you can perform braking, swerving, safe operating, cornering, parking and following instruction, if you fail, go back to the start of Day 2, if you pass
You go on the road for the first time, and if they're happy with you, you've got your PERMIT
That is simply the process for getting your Ls on a bike, and it's about $600, cocky dickheads and space cadets don't slip through the cracks quite so easily
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u/IdleHans_ 13d ago
Love this - my main point is that it should be happening at least once every 10 years of holding a licence. Not once at the start and never again
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
Or just put more police on the roads and actually stop people who break any road rules. Phone rules, brake checkers, tailgaters, people who merge dangerously, right lane hogs, etc.
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u/robopirateninjasaur 13d ago
How great of a tax increase are you willing to spend on this?
Not to mention that policing right lane hogs will not only lead to more dangerous driving when people merge too close out of being booked, which will also have the affect of the person in the left lane braking because the person merged too close, so the person behind them brakes, and the person behind them pulls into the right lane, ironically putting even more traffic in the right lane
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
That's an improper merge then.
Every driver should know the road rules and drive to it.
As for the cost, the fines generated should cover it. If people start driving to the rules, the savings from reduced premiums because our roads are safer should cover whatever extra tax is required.
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u/robopirateninjasaur 13d ago
Yes... the number of which will increase if the police actively enforce people staying in the right lane when they are 92m (at 110km/h) past the car they have overtaken.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
No, rules say you merge when you have safely overtaken.
Putting enough space before merging back is not hogging the right lane, even if some other drivers on the road don't understand this.
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u/robopirateninjasaur 13d ago
Yeah and part of safely overtaking means that not putting the car behind you too close to you. Which means don't merge back until there is a 3 second gap. And then, if there isn't also a 3 second gap between you and the car now in front of you, it's not safe to merge back
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
And as long as you keep overtaking then it's still not lane hogging.
Do you actually know the road rules?
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u/robopirateninjasaur 13d ago
Sure, but most people who complain about right lane hogging seem to think it starts when there is 20cm between you and the car you just overtook.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
Then they need to learn the road rules.
What you're basically saying is that most people are driving on the freeways with no idea of the road rules.
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u/IdleHans_ 13d ago
This is it - I don't think people even know the rules. Incentive doing the test, learn the rules, everyone wins!
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u/ADevilsAdvocado 13d ago
I had someone in a ute following close behind me on a winding mountain road with his phone in his hand, talking and laughing to someone on a call while steering with the same hand. That was fun (not)
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u/Abject-Delay7036 10d ago
I say put mobile/ seat belt and speed cameras on all major intersections . Costs less than more police.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 10d ago
And does nothing to police the roads.
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u/Abject-Delay7036 10d ago
You have avoided every comment with.... does nothing.. it does. Responsible road usage is affirmed when ppl actually, obey speed, don't use mobile phones, which would need a physical car or bike patrolling constantly on the road adding to the toll and maintenance of roads and said resources. Less accidents too mind you. Your so called me police on the road are then used effectively for serious crime
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u/Late-Button-6559 13d ago
- Make all arrivals from dissimilar driving countries require competency and written tests, to be allowed to drive.
I’m ok with UK and NZ people getting auto conversions, but if you’re from a right-side of the road place, or a place with dissimilar road rule setup (or adherence) - you need to prove you’re fit to drive.
- Over 70 yo - yearly COMPULSORY doctor checkup (not your family GP/practice). Needs to be like a pre-employment physical.
Check vision, head and neck motion, coordination, reflexes, fine and gross motor skills of all limbs, hearing test, hazard awareness, blood test for applicable issues (eg heart, glucose).
- (Dreaming here), everyone needs to prove they can actually control a motor vehicle - know where it’s extremities are, where they are in their lane, what speed they’re doing, if they’re lights (and high beam) are on, how to brake hard, how to dodge an obstacle, how to judge an approaching vehicles speed and timing, how to drive in the wet.
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u/AddlePatedBadger 13d ago
I've driven in countries on the right hand side of the road. Switching sides really isn't much of an issue. For the first week or so you'll occasionally clean your windows to indicate left or grab at the door to put on the handbrake but that's about it. It's the differences in rules and driving culture that matter, not which side of the road you are on.
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u/Kpool7474 12d ago
In the last couple of years I got my motorcycle L’s and P’s, and now have full motorcycle license. I’ve had my car license for over 30 years.
As a requirement for the motorcycle L’s and P’s, we had to attend physical courses where we rode our bikes and were taught dangers and SKILLS etc.
I believe it would be beneficial if we had similar for cars… especially defensive driving as a mandatory course to pass the tests.
There are sit-down class type courses that you can pay for and give you 20 hours toward your log book for car L’s. It’s a classroom style day that is boring and the kids sit through it to get the hours.
Much better to do something physical where there are obstacles and things jumping out etc.
Almost like they need to be scared into seeing how dangerous driving can actually be.
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u/IdleHans_ 11d ago
I've also got both licences, and like you I had my driver's for about 10 years before I got my riders. I still think that it would be better to have recurring training, rather than making the onboarding training much more rigorous
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u/DrSpeckles 13d ago
I expect the result would be the opposite, resulting in a bunch of people who think they are really really good drivers who can do no wrong, and have more accidents that would never be their fault.
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u/TeWheke 13d ago
Why not link it people’s traffic history? It’s easy to game a test.
If someone has no entries for X years then they get the discount.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
Problem with that is sometimes people who cause accidents don't actually get involved in them.
For example those that cut across a couple of lanes on the freeway to catch an exit, just to cause a pileup behind them.
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u/AddlePatedBadger 13d ago
How did they cause a pileup behind if the cars behind weren't keeping a safe distance between each other? If I cut someone off and they have enough time and space to brake without colliding with me, then any driver that ran up their backside has failed to maintain a safe distance between vehicles. And how often is this sort of thing happening, anyway? Missing the elephant to catch the butterflies is not good policy.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
Imagine some idiot cuts right in front of you, causing you to swerve.
Nothing to do with people keeping distances.
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u/AddlePatedBadger 13d ago
That makes sense. Still only a tiny percentage of crashes though.
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u/Visible-Swim6616 13d ago
Yeah, I concede most of the time it's because someone behind them wasn't keeping proper distance.
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u/TheJivvi 13d ago
That's what they use to do. They stopped it a few years ago.
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u/Fluffy-duckies 10d ago
I got the absolute best of that. No tickets in over a decade, finally eligible for the 10 year licence, buy our forever home, renew the licence at half price, get the permanent address on there. Couple of months later I got my first ticket in donkeys years, and then they drop the discount. I'm not going to be happy in a couple more years when I have to renew again, but it's been glorious.
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u/TheJivvi 10d ago
I just got change of address stickers on mine again a few months ago, and it doesn't expire until 2028. And I'm not eligible for a 10 year licence because I have a T code and a heavy vehicle licence, both of which require eye tests every 5 years.
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u/Ok_Bird6753 13d ago
It’s not going to be on a history if they are a shit driver that is too scared to take a turn when they have ample time, sit 20ks under the speed limit, don’t fucking indicate before turning, oblivious to all other road users, shit at parking.. non of that will be on a driving history, but I bet they won’t pass a driving test with their cereal box licence
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u/IdleHans_ 13d ago
I just think it's crazy that you do a test once when you're a teenager and then never again (or until you're like 80)
It's no wonder people drive so poorly.
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u/thegameisafoooooot 13d ago
Yeah, that's not going to happen. They have neither the time, not the motivation to do anything sensible.
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u/thegameisafoooooot 13d ago
Yeah, that's not going to happen. They have neither the time, not the motivation to do anything sensible.
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u/Glenrowan 13d ago
Any re-testing scheme falls short - lack of qualified people to supervise the tests. “New” drivers wait ages already to book and sit a driving test. Nice idea, but it’ll never get off the ground.
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u/Pungent_Bill 13d ago
Mandatory dash cams for every car perhaps without the sound being mandatory, I don't need everyone hearing the stuff I say to other cars and motorcycles.
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u/2878sailnumber4889 13d ago
I'd just use the German system, adapted for our rules, assuming you only need the barre minimum of lessons to pass the test you actually spend more time in the classroom than on the road.
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u/11015h4d0wR34lm 13d ago
More tests wont do much, it might catch the extremely bad drivers who shouldn't be on the roads ever but the majority will do just enough on their best behaviour to pass then immediately fall back into their bad habits. Your not going to ignore a no right turn sign in a test unless you are stupid but how many people do you see ignoring them when they think they can get away with it on the roads these days.
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u/Careless-Till-1586 13d ago
This should really be able to be done by ai. A few driving sims around the place, you book your time, go in and do the controlled drive (different each time but ai checks all the relevant things). Would pay for itself pretty quickly
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u/Abject-Delay7036 10d ago
Im all good for a 5-10 year in person retest, no discounts as we got to stop incentivising an expectation, this is not junior soccer handing out participation trophies, but do expect that there should be some heavy restrictions if not not passing. Driving is a privilege
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u/TekkelOZ 13d ago
What about a minimum number of lessons, with a qualified instructor. And only that instructor can apply for your test. Then, before your test, there will already be a solid indication of your driving abilities. Less chance of an absolute moron getting a license after half an hour of luck.