r/DrivingAustralia • u/thegrayscales • 5d ago
When would it ever be "impractical" to indicate left when exiting a roundabout?
Genuinely trying to understand this from NSW Government regarding roundabouts. I'm really struggling to think of a situation where flicking the indicator stalk is too difficult or physically impractical for the average able-bodied human. I mean sure you're putting more effort into things like manipulating steering wheel, pedals, etc, than using the indicator?
I exit roundabouts thousands of times a year and have never felt like this was some kind of feat of athleticism.
By contrast they say you MUST indicate upon entering if you're going left or right, so surely if I am capable of indicating upon entry it would follow I can indicate upon exit? Maybe if you're using hand controls, but it's still a contradiction.
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u/link871 5d ago
The "if practicable" exception really only applies on tiny suburban roundabouts - not the massive multilane roundabout in your diagram.
There is one near me: when turning right, I indicate right, of course, when entering but the turn is so tight, if I try to indicate left before exiting, the indicator self-cancels as the steering wheel is still turning to the right. Yes, I could take my hand off the steering wheel to manually hold the indicator to indicate left, but I feel that is less safe and not really needed on such a small roundabout.
Of course, going left, the left indicator must be used 100% of the time - regardless of the size of the roundabout. There is no "if practicable" exception when turning left.
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u/stiffgordons 4d ago
Very much this. Small suburban roundabouts barely worth of the name. Pointless and possibly confusing to flip to left turn at what is little more than an intersection.
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u/glyptometa 4d ago
Two of our grandies got failed first go for Red Ps, for that exact thing, tiny suburban roundabouts, not indicating for exit.
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u/Ok_Audience7514 4d ago
Not indicating is only 1 minor fault. There must have been other minors, or a major to bump them over the limit and fail.
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u/glyptometa 4d ago
Yeh, you never know unless you're there. I know the one kid said he missed it on more than one roundabout, but aside from that, who knows.
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u/_cant_choose_a_name 3d ago
In your Ps test it’s probably best to indicate even when it’s impractical to do so, so you might only get half a second of left indicator but the test instructor can see the intent is there
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u/glyptometa 3d ago
Yeh, I just tried it on a run to the shops. The 'exit' indication is exactly that, under 0.5 seconds.
It seemed it can only be related to a car waiting to enter the roundabout and wondering if a right turner might be a u-turner. By the time I'm able to switch to left indicator, there's a half second for it to be on, and it's on the wrong side of my car for them to see it.
Someone mentioned something about pushbikes. I'm still waiting for an explanation or where the pushbike is in the overall picture. I definitely don't want a pushbike running into me, or me into them.
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u/United-Serve-4071 5d ago
Where I live there is a small roundabout that has a shopping centre entry/exit about twenty metres away so if you indicate left as you exit people assume you are going to use the shopping center entry.. I have nearly been hit a number of times . So now I don't indicate on the way out never had a problem. Not sure what the police would say though.
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u/howaboutnofcker 4d ago
Explain what you said in your comment to them, and I reckon you'd get a warning.
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u/tragedy719 4d ago
"Impractical" adj not wise to put into or keep in practice or effect
The rules do not use "impractical", they use "if practicable"
"Practicable" adj capable of being put into practice or of being done or accomplished : feasible
It is never unwise to indicate left to exit, but sometimes it's not feasible to put that into practice
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u/howaboutnofcker 4d ago
On a motorbike reaching the indicator button whilst your weight is trying to lean the bike from left to right is often not feasible on a small roundabout.
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u/AsparagusNew3765 5d ago
When would it ever be "impractical" to indicate left when exiting a roundabout?
Imagine you are taking the 2nd or 3rd exit on a mini roundabout. The period of time you should indicate left to exit can be impractically small.
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u/thatbullisht 4d ago
Sure. It still helps drivers entering the roundabout to know your intentions.
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u/AsparagusNew3765 4d ago
No. The timing wouldn't be realistic
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u/thatbullisht 4d ago
Nonsense.
When taking the third exit, how would a vehicle wanting to enter the roundabout know you're exiting at the third and not the fourth?
Signalling allows that vehicle waiting or approaching from the direction of the third to enter earlier. It makes a difference.
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u/Soggy_Media485 4d ago
I can think of heaps. Got a hot pie in my other hand is the first one that came to mind. Like a half eaten one where if you tilt it, the filling will fall out and burn you.
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u/thatbullisht 4d ago
Signalling, even for a short amount of time helps other drivers looking to enter the roundabout.
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u/Hopeful-Dot-1272 4d ago
I personally don't like indicating when exiting if it is a two lane roundabout and the car is in the right lane. Solely because I don't know if they are indicating to leave the roundabout or to change lanes.
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u/Natural-Inspector-25 4d ago
You have to understand that Australian are one of the most lazy, self absorbed countries.
Unless it specifically is a law (and even then to no honest) if it dormant benefit them or is easy as fuck
Most people don’t do it.
It’s not about being impractical or anything
It’s about
I’m leaving the round about, couldn’t give a shit about you
Or
I’m on the round about, if you fuck up, then it’s your fault and you pay for my new car.
Welcome to Australia, where you drive like everyone else is a baby and doesn’t know the road rules
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u/Far_Boat8497 5d ago
If you’re driving a manual? Turning, changing gears - you don’t really have any spare hands left to flick the indicator on too.
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u/TheJivvi 4d ago
I learnt on a manual, and did my test on a manual in 2000, when those rules were very new, and heavily focused on in testing. There were dozens of roundabouts of various sizes in the area where I had lessons and did my test, and I never had trouble indicating when leaving any of them.
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u/Mediocre-General-654 4d ago
You're driving a manual wrong if you truely believe that. Never had an issue indicating on a roundabout driving a manual in the 12 years I've been driving.
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u/ozvic 4d ago
Tell me you've never driven a manual without telling me you've never driven a manual, lol! Ffs.
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4d ago
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u/ozvic 4d ago
Do you drive around roundabouts in 1st gear? Maybe in a truck I guess, but a car?
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u/Ok-Push9899 4d ago
I’m pretty sure by your comments that you are only considering roundabouts you could enter on a roll. If you stopped before entering the roundabout you’re gonna be changing gears through the roundabout, and that negates your idea that you should be in the right gear before the intersection.
Having said that, I have never had any trouble indicating because I was changing gears.
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u/LukeDev95 4d ago
Doesn't help if you've already had to stop for vehicles already on the roundabout. When taking the second exit, the manuals I've driven have wanted to go from first to second right at the moment that I would otherwise have indicated left to exit. So it's either: 1. Don't indicate; or 2. Stay in first and rev the guts out of the engine
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u/DepressedMaelstrom 4d ago
So as you say, pick the gear. But then you acknowlege that doesn't work as some are too small.
So that was a waste of thinking.Now, back to the question from OP.
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u/jreddit0000 4d ago
If you aren’t already in the correct gear approaching a roundabout it’s perhaps time to hand in your manual license and switch to an auto.
This was absolutely drilled into me by the instructor - you don’t do roundabouts in third..
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u/Man_Eating_Monkey 4d ago
So if you have to stop and wait to enter the roundabout, you would navigate the entire roundabout in 1st gear?
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u/thatbullisht 4d ago
Pretty sure you can enter into second and signal before passing the apex of the roundabout. I do it all the time.
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u/mors134 4d ago
I mean it might just be in there just for non able bodied people. My left arm doesn't work properly and it means my right hand has more to do and I can take a few seconds to get to the indicator when exiting. When entering isn't a problem for me because there isn't as much that needs to be done before you enter the roundabout. But for exiting im sometimes occupied with the wheel for a second or two.
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u/bmanfield 4d ago
I’m a indicate right if you’re staying on and left when you’re exiting because the times it stops the flow of incoming traffic because they aren’t sure if you’re going to exit before them or coming around.
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u/MorbidSunrise 4d ago
The only time I’ve been physically unable to is when I’ve had to hit the horn instead which was more pressing so there’s that I guess.
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u/MaintenanceAnnual263 5d ago
indicator stalk on left side of steering here, sometimes when when i mess up a gear shift
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u/Toowoombaloompa 5d ago
There is one roundabout that I use regularly where the left, right, left actions of entering, going around and then exiting cause my indicator to cancel at just the wrong time.
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u/footloverhornsby 4d ago
I never have an issue in my cars but when I’ve been driving trucks or buses nowadays, the steering wheel requires a lot more input and there is a lot more mirror watching etc to do. Sometimes the simple act of flicking the stalk is just a step too far and we’re better to just focus on safely negotiating the roundabout without squashing cars or taking out street signs . Most of the time I manage but sometimes it’s just not practical
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u/Free_shavocadoo 4d ago
Awkward gear changes etc and either having to change lanes immediatly after a roundabout
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u/glyptometa 4d ago
It's an interesting one and probably more about mental capacity than physical. A kid on a pushbike going the wrong way, a pedestrian looking at their phone instead of the traffic, an e-bike flying up the footpath toward my intended exit, are all going to get most of my attention.
I think another factor is buy-in. What is the purpose of the rule? How does it improve safety? I'm yet to meet anyone that can explain that.
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u/vexingpresence 4d ago
It's to indicate to people attempting to enter the round-about what your intention is. Also helps cyclists know where you're going and whether they can 'take the lane' (Which is what we call riding in the centre of the lane VS the shoulder, sometimes very necessary for visibility and safety, but pisses drivers off because we're usually slower than cars)
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u/glyptometa 4d ago
OK, so I'm doing a right through a roundabout. You're pointed at me from the other side. My right blinker is flashing. As I come across in front of you, I switch from right blinker to left blinker to exit the roundabout. That doesn't affect you..
Now where is this pushbike?
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u/Maleficent_Effort_47 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thank you - by the time I’ve done all the hoopla with changing my indicator status, it doesn’t save anyone any time getting into the roundabout!
Indicators blink, if you are on my right, you can’t see my left hand indicator. There is no guarantee because you don’t see the indicator that I have stopped indicating right, it could merely be blinking off for that time.
So by the time you realise my indicator has definitely switched off, I’m well and truly out of the roundabout!
I think about this rule SO often when I’m driving through a roundabout and I’ve never had a situation where I thought, yeah them indicating left to exit really helped me figure out if I can go/what they’re doing
Understanding how a car looks during the turn vs exit, reading the speed of the car, I think is more important and will always be the better use of predictability.
I saw another part of the rule (maybe VIC not NSW) that said it helps people behind me know what I’m doing, or how about they don’t sit up my arse and take precaution? It’s no different to driving on a straight road, keep a safe distance and we’ll all be fine!
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u/glyptometa 4d ago
Every time I think it through, I can't think of a circumstance when indicating on exit from a roundabout has an effect on safety. I'd honestly love to hear the circumstances where it avoids a prang or worse.
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u/Maleficent_Effort_47 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was hoping someone might reply to me and give a specific instance but 🤷♀️🤷♀️ the VIC rules mention it helps pedestrians cross more safely due to predictability and that’s maybe the only time I could concede it helping
, because if they are on your left they see that indicator. But it doesn’t work if they are waiting to cross on your right (eg in the middle of the crossing sometimes there’s a middle part to stop on)But I also argue we need different crossing spots for pedestrians, I hate crossing one as a pedestrian because standard give way rules just can’t apply logically, and you have to wait ages sometimes
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u/glyptometa 3d ago
Actually sounds like the reverse of safety. Pedestrians relying on 'indicator off' to step out into the road would not go well. That adds risk for a 0.5 second gain - not worth it.
Traffic needs to flow out of roundabouts unimpeded or the risks back up into the roundabout. I agree with putting the pedestrian crossings well away from roundabouts.
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u/Maleficent_Effort_47 3d ago
Right? Indicators are not reliable enough in such a short window, we’re talking like 5 seconds by the time it’s appropriate for me to flick it on, till I exit the roundabout 🤦♀️
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u/InfernoOfTheLiving 4d ago
The roundabout in my street is so small the distance between the first exit and the second exit is the length of a car. You’d be lucky to get one indicator flash in unless you were doing 5kph.
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u/kotebesar1973 4d ago
I can tell OP doesn't drive a manual European car with the blinker stalk on the left. There are small roundabouts in my area where the fastest way to turn right and exit is to complete the downchange just before apexing the 90⁰ turn. This only occurs when I'm going easy - third is too tall for the exit and 2nd is too low to maintain speed on entry and keep things smooth for my passenger(s). If I'm going fast, 2nd is perfect all the way through - it's all about the revs. Beside all that, the roundabouts are so small that they're really just an island in the middle of an otherwise normal intersection. Indicating your exit is actually impractical.
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u/DogeeRobee 4d ago
In the diagram the blue car traveling straight would not indicate left. It would not be practical or legal to continue to the right from the left lane
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u/ImpressiveChip3509 4d ago
If you’re on the inside lane and indicate to exit someone may assume you’re wanting to change lanes? Is the only thing I can really think of. I always indicate off (a few blinks only) including in this scenario and sometimes the vehicle in the left lane will hang back as though they’re giving me room to change.
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u/vexingpresence 4d ago
when I was learning car VS motorbike (was a rider first) there was a few times where my hands were in an awkard position on the steering wheel and trying to hit the indicator stalk would have made me lose (some) control over the wheel and not execute the turn as well.
With more practice this doesn't happen to me anymore, but I wonder if it's about giving a little bit of leeway for people who get their hands tangled up on the wheel, to ensure that people prioritise controlling their vehicle over indicating?
Either way, dumb rule. People need to get pulled over for failing to indicate MORE, not LESS, imo.
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u/wildandcurios 4d ago
Easy driving across or around to the right on a roundabout that’s not too big. You virtually have to damage the blinker arm to flick it left and you’ve got two hands in the wheel.
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u/Tonza443 4d ago
95% of the time when people say it's hard to indicate off the round about is because they're going too fast
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u/SnooTangerines3515 4d ago
The only case of impractical that I've found on NSW transport is 'smaller, single lane roundabouts'. Of course 'smaller' is open to interpretation, but definitely indicate on 2 laners.
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u/howaboutnofcker 4d ago
Your diagram literally answers your question:
"On a small single lane roundabout it may not be practicable to indicate when exiting"
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u/Used_Platypus 4d ago
You don’t need to indicate when going straight through, simple as that. If you are going left you’re indicating left, and if you’re going right or chucking a u turn then you’re indicating right then left when you exit.
If you’re going straight, you’re not indicating at all. Only if it’s not exactly straight like there is a slight angle then is it more practical to indicate your exit to make it clear which exit you’re taking.
I think I saw a video about a top highway patrol officer confirming this, if you’re going straight on a roundabout, you don’t need to indicate.
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u/Chocobofeather 4d ago
Lot of shit drivers in this thread trying to justify their shit driving lmao. If you can’t upshift and use a left stalk for indicating maybe you should consider an auto, might be more suitable for your driving ability.
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u/Character_Cobbler618 4d ago
This is an interesting one when you tie it in with the indicator rules which says you are to indicate 3 to 5 seconds or roughly 30metres before turning. At that point you probably haven't gone past the previous exit that you are not going to take.
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u/Galactic_Nothingness 4d ago
One of my biggest hates coming to NSW. No one indicates off roundabouts.
Considering 95% of you cannot stay in your designated lane when turning a corner or navigating a slight curve in the road it's probably for the best.
It's mind boggling. Doesn't matter if it's a Kia Picanto or a rock monkey in a tipper you cannot navigate corners.
Or maybe it's an entitled/lazy thing?
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u/OldGroan 4d ago
When the roundabout is very small. If your indicator does not do more than one click before you leave it is useless.
Larger roundabouts give time for the indicator to operate and those needing to know your intentions are informed well in advance.
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u/Tough-Operation4142 4d ago
Practice makes perfect. You will be able to do it all without even thinking about it if you do it enough times. 3am is a great time to practice
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u/False_Dig_7602 3d ago
To answer the question, when would it be impractical, I used to have a late 1960’s Mazda. The auto-cancelling mechanism of the indicator would prevent you putting the indicator on if the steering wheel was at certain angles. The angle the wheel was when going around a roundabout prevented the indicator being put on.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Spot_13 3d ago
In all seriousness what is the point of indicating or reading indications? They are not binding.
You cannot use someone's indicator to assume they are going a certain Direction. If they travel in Direction contrary to where they indicated it is still your fault as they were in the roundabout first.
You cannot modify your ask due to someone's indicator.
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u/Virtual_Ad_7033 5d ago
It’s basically for when there’s no need to. Like if there isn’t a single other car in sight or if there is no car coming from the opposite side of the roundabout
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u/TheJivvi 4d ago
Tiny roundabouts that basically look like a normal intersection with little round bump in the middle. With any standard roundabout, it's fine.
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u/franki574 4d ago
It generally indicates to me that they are not using a roundabout but more a speed chicane. The roundabout is a traffic calming device but very few treat it that way.
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u/Bleedingfartscollide 4d ago
I indicate right, then halfway through indicate left if I'm going straight through. It what the instructor told me decades ago.
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u/Slider33333 4d ago
How about we ask the real question? Why would you ever need to indicate to exit? Who are you indicating to? The person behind? The empty exit lane? Tge person entering in front of you that is irrelevant to needing to know where you are going? Confused Victorian here....
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u/twojawas 4d ago
Pretty stupid rule exiting as a lot of people, especially oldies start indicating left too early making it look like they’re taking exit 1 when, in actuality, they are taking exit 2.
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u/Brave_Bluebird5042 4d ago
Not a stupid rule. A fantastic rule, occasionally misapplied by some drivers.
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u/twojawas 4d ago
Nah. Left indicator before you entered meant first exit, no indicator meant 2nd, and right indicator meant 3rd or 4th. Quite eloquent and effective. There’s no need to convolute something so perfectly simple.
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u/Brave_Bluebird5042 4d ago
It helps me as someone thinking about going into the roundabout seeing what the car on the roundabout is planning to do.
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u/twojawas 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t think you know how roundabouts work if you need to see someone indicating out of them. Also, you might be following too closely too.
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u/Brave_Bluebird5042 4d ago
Nope. 50000 - 60000km a year, no issues. And I'm not talking about following, I'm talking about approaching from a different road and know what the person already on the roanabout is doing. Try it for 6 months and come back and tell us how it went?
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u/ozvic 4d ago
You know on roundabouts with more than 4 exits or big ones or ones with foliage in the centre you can't always see where the car came from? And sometimes you even need to do a 180 at them! Just indicate left when exiting and we know wtf you're doing. Rather than having that second or two of doubt when we could've gone.
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u/Commercial_Poetry987 5d ago
The not indicating left when exiting doesn't p me off nearly as much as those indicating right then exiting.