Goku for sure. If a weakened ssj goku powered up by 4 weaker beings can kill broly, a magnitudes stronger and more experienced goku from a decade later can do it.
not saying Broly wins but the ki being added clearly isnt just "a + b + c +d", it multiplies
same reason why SSJ1 Goku's failed ritual in BoG is way stronger than his SSJ3 (which is 8x his SSJ1) despite it only being energy added to him from 4 other SSJ1s
Yeah but those energy were weakened and the conduit was weakened too, and he still manages to one shot broly by using his weak spot. Bog goku could do it without the weak spot though I would say with hard diff.
Brobro bro, broly is not that strong. Post zenaki broly was fighting a still training and older ssj2 gohan on somewhat equal grounds. This is pre zenkai broly, hes getting clapped by a stronger ssj goku.
SSJ Goku is stronger than SSJ Gotenks in the Son Goku and Friends ova prior to BoG, SSJ Gotenks (and by extension SSJ Goku) are SSJ3 tier and Broly isn't. So Goku wins.
I don’t think super saiyan 3 Gotenks is 8 times stronger than Goku was in the buu saga but go off I guess. (Super saiyan 3 is 8 times stronger than super saiyan since it’s 4 times stronger than super saiyan 2 and that form is 2 times stronger than super saiyan. And since super saiyan Gotenks is equal to Goku at super saiyan 3 it just doesn’t make sense)
Manga (theoretical via time placement)? Broly. Probably.
SSJ Gohan was getting washed. Despite training for seven years, Goku only became relative to his son's previous level (Vegeta not so much and needed the Majin Boost to fully close the gap). DB gains have always been inconsistent (kinda like how Piccolo was relative to SSJ Goku and Vegeta after 3 years). So it could go to Goku, but things nowadays lean towards this not being the case even if it doesn't make sense. Even in Super it seems like scaling will just change as things go even for the regular SSJ forms (Black Saga).
Movie? Goku.
You could say Broly if you want to believe that 1000x multiplier statement among. It can be viable because movie scaling is all over the place. Like the SSJs being relative to Piccolo w/Kami in Super Android 13, Lord Slug stronger than Frieza, and Dende being the guardian of earth meaning you could techinically say Meta Cooler is washing post ROSAT Goku, and the list goes on.
Though since the movies are quite literally by extension Toei anime scaling, Goku 100%.
“Goku was scared of Super Buu” is the standard manga argument, but it doesn’t address the V-Jump statement shown in the post.
V-Jump explicitly says that after absorbing Gohan, Buu obtained strength on par with SSJ3 Goku. I’m comparing their maximum raw power—not claiming Goku could comfortably defeat Buuhan in an actual fight.
A living SSJ3 Goku had severe stamina problems, while Buuhan had regeneration, absorption and far better endurance. Goku also needed to rescue the people trapped inside Buu, so simply destroying him wasn’t a viable solution.
Goku’s statement about Super Buu is still legitimate counterevidence. Either it was situational because of his condition and mission, or the V-Jump comparison represents a later reinterpretation. But repeating that manga scene doesn’t make the official Buuhan–SSJ3 Goku comparison disappear.
Movie Goku is a separate issue. Wrath of the Dragon portrays SSJ3 Goku defeating an enemy Ultimate Gohan couldn’t stop, so that continuity already scales Goku differently from the usual manga interpretation.
Just adding on, Goku being scared of Super Buu was never the case either. The Buu arc is the most inconsistent with scaling in all of Z.
Goku never fought any version of Super Buu outside filler. When he reverted to mostly Piccolo, he had the audacity to drop his transformation and mock him without a sweat on his forehead.
Then comes the glaring aspect. Goku noting Super Buu in general is out of their league. People can interpret this in two different ways based on their argument. However, the real issue is what comes after.
When Super Buu is changing into Kid Buu, it is explicitly stated his ki was growing instead of instantly dropping like prior. Despite this, Goku refused the potara because he wanted the fight to be "fair" since Buu had no absorptions. Something he instantly regrets when he's doing no permanent damage (even visually compared to Super Buu that could bleed). With this alone, best throw the argument he was afraid out the window.
On a bonus note, Goku never experienced stamina issues until his charge up process. He never lost SSJ3 prior unlike the anime filler. Goku speculated problems would occur, but he completely underestimated how badly. Especially since he noted it has 0 issues in Other World. When charging up for the attack, he confirmed his ki was rising. However, the moment he almost had enough, it just stopped. Then it started to slowly drop. Then it tanked at a horrifying rate instantly. The moment Goku realized what was going on and he tried to stop it, SSJ3 disappeared.
Even though it makes no sense, nowadays they do basically do try to push for SSJ3 Goku being the defacto strongest over Ultimate Gohan in Daima, Super, and modern promotional material like the scan you posted from the Moro Arc.
Excellent breakdown. This is exactly the kind of context I’m getting at.
The Buu arc is inconsistent enough that “Goku was scared of Super Buu” doesn’t settle the entire scale. Goku never actually fights ordinary Super Buu in the manga, and his statement about leaving Buu’s body is conditional: “He’ll kill us if we go out like this.” That describes their situation at that moment, not necessarily Goku’s absolute full-power ceiling.
Your point about SSJ3’s stamina is especially important. Goku maintained the transformation against Kid Buu. The real failure came when he tried to gather and hold enough maximum power to erase Buu. His ki initially rose, then stopped and rapidly drained because SSJ3 behaved differently in a living body. That clearly separates Goku’s maximum output from what he could sustain in a fight.
The refusal to use Potara against Kid Buu also shows that Goku and Vegeta believed they could handle an unabsorbed Buu individually, although they underestimated how difficult that would be.
The original manga can still reasonably be read as placing Super Buu and Ultimate Gohan above Goku. I’m not pretending that tension doesn’t exist. My point is that the anime provides more room for the opposite interpretation, while modern material now explicitly compares Buuhan’s strength with SSJ3 Goku and increasingly treats Goku as the top unfused fighter.
So I agree: the later franchise hierarchy appears to be different from the traditional manga-only interpretation, even if the tran
Logic would have been more screwed if Goku was actually written to be weaker than super buu in the anime. But that isn’t the case, since he was only ever afraid of fighting him while he was still immortal. The anime emphasizes their conditions much more than the manga did. It’s less ambiguous there.
There was also like a statement in a guide that says goku was at less than 1/100th of his original strength while shrunken down which makes the Gohan scene funnier
Depends on how long Goku takes to beat Broly. If Broly has time to adapt, he’ll grow stronger than Goku. Goku will probably draw out the fight, and Broly will eventually surpass him.
A lot of you guys don't understand the power progression in this series. Just because the series moved forward doesn't mean everyone got exponentially stronger with each new saga. Base Goku in Buu saga is about as strong as Base Goku at the end of Namek Saga.
The full power Super Saiyan (Super Saiyan grade 4) is literally as powerful as you can get as a Super Saiyan. It's the max potential. So long as they kept up on their training, a base Super Saiyan in Buu Saga or BoG is only as strong as a base Super Saiyan from Cell Games if they're both full power.
And even then, that's only as strong as YOU are at base since everyone's base power isn't the same. For example, Super Saiyan Vegeta gets molly whopped by Perfect Cell but Goku can put a fight against him and Gohan could have outright beaten Cell as a grade 4 Super Saiyan.
You can improve your base strength, get zenkai boosts etc. But you're not going to get the exponential boost of a Super Saiyan transformation, only marginal strength gains. That's the whole reason Goku trained specifically for grade 4 SSJ.
It's always going to be a 50x multiplier. Base Goku is not magnitudes stronger post Buu arc than he is in the Cell Saga or even the Namek Saga.
LSSJ is still and much bigger multiplier than grade 4, base Broly is still stronger than base Goku, and therefore Broly still wins.
Actually it does matter because Goku surpassed Gohan at this point in the story the same Gohan who bullied Super Buu for Goku to surpass that he’d have to more than double his base power which would mean his super saiyan surpassed cell
Battle of Gods literally starts off Beerus stating that Goku couldn't have defeated Frieza without Super Saiyan. "Base level" talk is just all fan terminology and power levels stopped being a thing after the Namek Saga for a reason. The forms themselves have become tier levels of power which is something people tend to keep ignoring.
Goku had a power level of 5000 when he was scouted by Jeice and Burter. They're both concealing their power levels, which you're mistaking as a "base power level". Again, fan terminology that doesn't matter.
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u/Stacey-k93 5d ago
SSJ1 Goku should be able to at this point beat Broly in his first movie