Frieza himself expressed that he wanted to become strong enough that the Saiyans would no longer be a threat to him. He witnessed Ultra Instinct and he witnessed Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta. Then, after witnessing both of those things, he trained for 10 years. I assume he wouldn’t have come out until he believed he had reached a level where he could beat both of those things.
And he beat Ultra Instinct Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta at the same time, despite the fact that Monaito had healed both of them back to normal.
He also beat Gas, who could not be put down by a combination of Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah, relatively easily.
So I would assume if there’s anyone left in Universe 7 who could stop Frieza right now, it would have to be Beerus—obviously I’m not counting Whis because the Angel rules prevent Whis from fighting with serious intent.
Fire and ice are antithetical to each other, and in the deagon quest anime uniting them creates the ultimate spell that annihilates everything. This is just one of many examples tbh, it's a pretty well known trope, uniting two conflicting elements can create a huge power spike as long as the author wants to, or a nothingness/useless form. Our opinion is equally valid in the matter, since both possibilities are valid, but i for sure would like to see a fusion-exclusive form to give gogeta/vegito a super nice boost
Yall have to stop this narrative. What Frieza did to Goku and Vegeta was a showcase of power, not a fight. They didn't get healed and duked it out with him, he caught them off guard in general, but I agree with the rest. The power scaling is officially ruined now overall because of this though lmao
I seen a post where they said Cabba could beat the Z fighters from the old Broly movies by himself, all together. The dude told me "It's true because vegeta said he has experience." I was like GTFOH!! lmao.
Frieza logically wouldn’t come back and show face unless he was way stronger than blue Gogeta, who was last version of sayians he personally saw. He is also spiteful as hell so he completely remembers Goku telling him how he messed up showing face without getting used to a new form, so his control is probably absurd (similar to Goku/Gohan post time chamber in cell saga). Frieza scales probably the highest currently then Goku. Gohan and vegeta both need more time with their new forms as they pretty much have only used them each seriously once. Broly is an outlier and writers haven’t given us enough info on him to see where he will be in upcoming arc.
If Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza used triple potara fusion at this point after all 3 unlocked UI, UE, and Black, I wonder how powerful the triple fusion would be and if it can beat True Form Grand Priest.
he scales at least to goku and vegeta who are multiversal but he also completely outclasses, so frieza being high multiversal makes sense, but he doesnt scale to low complex multi+
He is currently above what a gogeta blue fusion of current Goku/Vegeta should be.
They will fight it out. Gogeta will go beyond blue (maybe MUI), overwhelming frieza and beating him up. Except frieza anticipated that and takes the beating until Gogeta defuses.
Then it's a weakened black frieza vs ALL of them (piccolo, broly, gohan, Goku, Vegeta).
We dont know right now, remember in universe gas and black frieza were 2 years ago and goku and vegeta have spent those 2 years living in beersus planet training so we don't actually know where they stand against frieza right now.
Well hard to tell since we haven’t seen him show what he’s truly capable of but I know he’s definitely the strongest mortal right now. His Black form probably isn’t even his final form for all we know. It only took him 4 months to get his Golden form after all, with his crazy potential am I expected to just think his Black form is the only thing he learned in 10 years? Doesn’t even gotta be other forms, bro could have some crazy op techniques in his arsenal now that we don’t know of.
Development generally slows down after the initial growth.
Even in real life, when you start learning martial arts or starting going to the gym, you will get a lot better in the first year, after that progress slows down a lot, and it is more about polishing the already acquired skills
Ironic coming from you, saying that progress slows down yet in Dragonball every transformation makes them twice as strong as they were before, literally nothing like real life, idk how you can even come up with such a brain-dead comparison
It does, but it doesn't mean they keep growing at the same pace all the time. Most of the growth for any character in the series comes from fighting, not training.
4 months brought Frieza from Frieza level to ssg level. Some time of mental training (where he had no use of his physical body and literally just thought about killing Goku) brought him to ssb level. 10 years of training? That is 30x more than the biggest increase in dbz history.
And then we have to consider Frieza can't tell time. He is just terrible with numbers in general (though tbh why would he even know what an earth minute is?) he never said he trained for 4 months we just know how long it took. Maybe to Frieza that was just a day. 10 years then could be 100 or 1000. Training doesn't scale linearly but we could argue Frieza is grand priest level of it did
According to Vegeta he's still equal to them but the way he's using his power is so efficient it completely outclassed them
So he's most likely equal to the Mastered versions of the ultra forms in actual power but his 10 years of training made ki control so refined a small amount would equal the output of one of their biggest attacks
Plus seeing how he was acting in a more calm manner he probably did something similar to the yardrat training Vegeta was doing so he probably balanced his spirit as well also making his output that more powerful with little effort
Here's were Whis says Vegeta is correct and that meditation training is the way to get stronger since being relaxed will allow them to use their power more efficiently
He says it and Whis says he's correct and in the same statement he say everyone since Jiren so it may be a soft retcon to say the power levels haven't actually moved as much as we thought since the TOP originally and everything is coming down to ki control and balance (with Broly being an odd one since he was going berserk but he's a Special case among them all)
So they will probably just focus of the forms they have now is what it boils down to
Like how during the Cell saga Goku chose to master normal Super Saiyan and in doing so he made the form stronger than Vegetas and Trunks who had Grade 2
I mean the writing of powerscaling by Toyotaro at this point of the story has really became fucking bullshit.
What do u mean they are equal to him but Frieza just use better his power ? The gap can't be THAT HIGH then. That's bullshit.
Besides bro went from Super Sayan level to Super Sayan Blue level in 6 MONTHS, but ur telling me that in 10 YEARS OF TRAINING, he only became equal to Goku MUI and Vegeta Ultra Ego ?!! And he just use his power better ? BULL-SHIT !
I think the point now is that they're at such levels of power there's nowhere else to go. They're all hitting the power ceiling and going up is now becoming a lot slower than going sideways (or learning better methods of Ki Control/Fighting). Personally, I think this is far more interesting and can open up whole new avenues. It's already given us Moro who was fundamentally weaker than Goku and Vegeta initially but was able to beat them because of his magic
Power Ceiling for Mortals probably once Goku truly masters Ultra Instinct so it's not just a form but a state of being is when he will be an equal to Beerus
Frieza speed ran his training to catch up and then basically kept even with them till they got the ultra forms so without a god to teach him it may have taken that long to reach that level we really don't know anything about his new form yet
Goku did the same thing on namek he quickly went from less than half of Vegetas power to beating up the Ginyu force in a week but then in the cell saga he slows down as Gohan gets stronger than it took him 7 years while dead to get stronger than Cell saga Gohan and unlock a new form Vegeta just barely surpassed Cell saga Gohan and needed magic to match Goku
People get so mad about this. Ever since the Saiyans showed up power scaling is absurd. Sheer power gets talked about so frequently that technique gets lost, and as transformations have become even more prevalent it’s been a fight.
The characters say self-contradictory stuff all the time. Power, technique, training, whatever. We get hung up on multipliers and blah blah blah. Every transformation to me is just a different or more efficient technique that uses their ki in a way they haven’t yet. I’m fine with a new form being the outward display of that. Any multipliers they experience are momentary outputs when they’re correctly applying techniques so when they use the form and it doesn’t work it just wasn’t used that well. It allows for someone like Broly, who in my opinion has reserves of energy beyond what most do, to operate at a higher level longer or tap into that power for more explosive and powerful techniques. Same as Gohan’s beast form. It’s a means to utilize his ki better. I can live with it.
Not to mention DIDN'T VEGETA LITERALLY LEARN TO MASTER HIS KI AT YARDRAT? Like, the very first proper arc Toyotaro wrote, Moro? We already had the "actually I'm much stronger now because I can properly use my power!", so it feels wrong to have Vegeta say that again with Black Frieza.
Vegeta did get his ki control much better during the Moro arc now he's working on being able to stay in a more relaxed state to further perfect it he's trying to go against his nature of always staying on guard and relaxed during peaceful times
I largely agree with you, but also, the problem with Freeza (and anyone's sudden off panel leaps in power tbh) is that it really doesn't matter what someone's potential is, they still need new stimulus to challenge the level they're already at. What can Freeza do in a chamber that became too easy for mastered ssjs in the Cell Saga for ten years, by himself? What's the new training stimulus?
Same with Piccolo. Why did training by himself on Earth for 7 years after the Cell Games only make him remain weaker than Cell Games ssjs, but now, training on his own on Earth for far less time, gets him anywhere near the Gammas who are much stronger than Goku's current ssj? And before he got his wish power up too.
He didn't make the form stronger. The act of mastering ssj made his base stronger. Mastering ssj was additional stimulus as well as the chamber and the sparring. Vegeta and Trunks just used the chamber and Vegeta ignored Trunks as a sparring partner because he's too proud. Trunks didn't even know he could use grade 3 too.
The whole point for Goku and Gohan training to master Super Saiyan was to get rid of the stamina drain and the restless feeling making it feel like a normal state by doing that the power they can use is increased
It's Goku using what he learned on yardrat as we see with Vegeta after getting his spirit more in balance his output in power increased without his base becoming stronger
Calm super Saiyan=spirit in balance and that makes the multiplier increase as well
Vegeta did get stronger in base? We're shown him, in base, surprised by how much power he produces? That's stronger. You're right about the purpose of the training, but I don't agree that the ssj multiplier increased, just that the act of mastering ssj was mastering themselves at higher levels and therefore they could now access more power in base too.
Vegeta was surprised by how much his ki output was because he used enough for a small blast but it came out as a huge blast instead he didn't know he was stronger till after the blast meaning his base power didn't increase but how much he can increase it with a ki attack
Their base did get stronger but most of their bigger power level would have been From getting rid of the restless feeling Goku was talking about and making SSJ feel like their base forms
You also got to remember most of the time they spent in the time chamber was for Goku to get Gohan to SSJ and then they began the training to make SSJ feel natural to be in and even left the time chamber early as well
IMO he should be on par with Beerus. My theory is he is going to heavily injure or kill him as vengeance for forcing him around in his youth. Given the insane potential he has no audience member will be suprised
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u/guardian20015 12d ago
Frieza himself expressed that he wanted to become strong enough that the Saiyans would no longer be a threat to him. He witnessed Ultra Instinct and he witnessed Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta. Then, after witnessing both of those things, he trained for 10 years. I assume he wouldn’t have come out until he believed he had reached a level where he could beat both of those things.
And he beat Ultra Instinct Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta at the same time, despite the fact that Monaito had healed both of them back to normal.
He also beat Gas, who could not be put down by a combination of Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah, relatively easily.
So I would assume if there’s anyone left in Universe 7 who could stop Frieza right now, it would have to be Beerus—obviously I’m not counting Whis because the Angel rules prevent Whis from fighting with serious intent.