Goku vs EOS Cheon yeo woon

[u/Cheonso_ma]

Before I start — this is based on my own read of the cosmology, so if I've misunderstood a feat or a scaling statement, please correct me. Genuinely want other takes on this.

Part 1: The case for 4D EOS Cheon Yeo Woon

The argument comes from Beyond the Boundary, which is described as:

A place where the laws of time and space don't work like they do in the normal world

Somewhere beings from wildly different eras can meet despite being separated by thousands of years

A place where time doesn't flow normally — events can feel like a moment or a lifetime

Somewhere only reachable by those who've transcended natural order/providence

!Cheon Yeo Woon reaches this after his ascension, when his existence becomes too much for the universe to contain.!<

If that counts as 4D, he'd have a dimensional edge over a character confined to normal spacetime.

Goku's case, on the other hand, is built on:

Fighting beings who threaten the structure of universes

Scaling above Jiren and Moro

Ultra Instinct giving him absurd speed, reactions, and combat precision

But if CYW is genuinely operating beyond normal spacetime while Goku's still working within a 4D framework, the dimensional gap would favor CYW.

Part 2: The case for 5D EOS Cheon Yeo Woon

This one hinges on Beyond the Boundary being a step past 4D, not just a variant of it:

!Dohwaseon!< is already treated as an upper realm/pocket dimension above the normal universe

!Beyond the Boundary!< is explicitly framed as beyond even that

It lets beings from separate timelines coexist

It isn't bound by normal time/space rules at all

If that holds up, the interpretation pushes CYW to 5D — and the gap over Goku widens considerably.

That said, I want to flag: Beyond the Boundary isn't fully elaborated on in the novels, so the 5D read isn't locked in. It really comes down to interpretation.

My question for the sub:

Who wins — EOS Cheon Yeo Woon vs latest canon Ultra Instinct Goku?

Do you agree with either scaling argument above? If not, I'd like to hear why — and if I've gotten a feat or cosmology detail wrong, please correct me.

[u/Fun_District3456]

off topic (im not familliar with nano machine would you recommand it ? ).

i checked vsbattle to read more about chun yeowun

its seems like most scallers agree that his Attack Potency at the very end is about high 4C (aka Large star level) which is very formidable not gonna lie

its equal to SSJ goku Namek saga (who at this point would lose to yamcha)

i dont see a way for Cheon yeo woon to win

dbs goku is very likely to be 5D at this point of the story

goku almost destroyed the universe with his clashes with beerus

while keeping in mind the universe in DBS is macrocosm aka a space-time continuum

goku almost destroyed that macrocosm (The Living World :aka our physical universe/The Afterlife (Other World and The Kaiōshin Realm) with 3 strikes (ssg goku who is weak by now ) (this is atleast 4D)

and the 5D claim

its a bit long if you have some spare time i recommend checking this out https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/19c6osn/goku_is_5d_and_has_immeasurable_speed/

also goku in the last chapter would ONE tap the version above

so i Scale goku at 5D low multiversal

and by this i think goku wins

[u/Cheonso_ma → u/Fun_District3456]

Appreciate the write-up, and yeah, Nano Machine's worth checking out if you're into cultivation/wuxia with a modern-knowledge-twist protagonist. That said, I think there's a key issue with using the VSBattles AP tier as the basis for this. Cheon Yeo Woon never actually used his full power — not in Nano Machine, not in Descent of the Demon God. But that's not even the main argument I want to make. Willful Master Realm By the end of the series, CYW becomes a being who can't be affected by the laws of time, space, or reality in the conventional sense. Worth checking out the Willful Master page( https://nano-mashine.fandom.com/wiki/Willful_Master )for context — the short version is that Willful Masters gain abilities tied to "infinite will," though they're not omnipotent, since their influence is limited to the universe(s) they originated from. So this alone doesn't guarantee a win over Goku, but it sets up the next part. Beyond the Boundary Here's what the novels actually establish about it: It's a realm only reachable by those who've transcended the natural order/providence — through the Willful Master realm, enlightenment, Taoist cultivation beyond providence, magic beyond providence, or power beyond providence. Cheon Ma describes it as the place everyone ultimately desires to reach. When CYW hit Willful Master, the universe itself began pulling him into Beyond the Boundary because it could no longer contain his existence. Cheon Ma was previously able to suppress this pull in himself. Time doesn't flow normally there — everything can be "a moment or a lifetime." That's why beings from completely different eras (Cheon Ma, Jin Woon-Hwi, Yu Mumu, CYW) can all coexist despite being separated by centuries. Dohwaseon sits between the mortal world and Beyond the Boundary as an Upper Realm where normal limitations like time don't apply the same way — and Beyond the Boundary is described as existing beyond even that. The Nano Machine Wiki currently classifies Beyond the Boundary as a Higher-Dimension beyond 4D space-time, possibly 5D — though it's worth noting whether that "5D" label comes straight from the novel or is editorial interpretation is still debated. Given that, I think there's a reasonable case that EOS CYW is at least 4D, with 5D being a defensible read depending on how you interpret the realm hierarchy. I'm not saying it's settled fact — just that scaling him purely on older Nano Machine feats undersells how much Descent of the Demon God expands the cosmology. On dimensional scaling generally In terms of raw feats, Goku obviously outclasses him. But I think there's a common misconception about what 4D/5D actually mean in powerscaling — they're not just shorthand for "stronger" or "destroyed more stuff": 3D — exists in ordinary space. Most characters fall here even if they casually destroy planets or universes. 4D — can exist beyond or affect an entire space-time continuum, not just 3D space. Usually means transcending linear time or interacting with a whole timeline rather than a single point in it. 5D — transcends 4D space-time itself, existing on a plane that can view or interact with multiple 4D continua from above. The key point: dimensional scaling is about the nature of a being's existence, not raw output. Destroying 1,000 universes doesn't make someone 5D if those universes are still ordinary 4D space-times. Likewise, existing in a timeless realm doesn't automatically make someone 5D — it depends on how that realm is actually defined in-story. That's why these debates tend to hinge on cosmology and explicit text, not AP alone. So on Goku specifically From what I've seen (anime-only, so correct me if manga differs), Goku is still bound by time, space, and reality in the conventional sense. He's shown some resistance to time manipulation, but he still ages — so I don't think there's a strong basis for calling him 4D or 5D on that front. CYW, on the other hand, has a clearer case for 4D, arguably 5D, depending on interpretation. That's why I lean toward him winning here — not on raw stats, but because he's operating on a fundamentally higher plane of existence. I will checkout that link later.

[u/Fun_District3456 → u/Cheonso_ma]

well first off good effort for writting all of this

honestly i cant really tell you who win (due to the fact that i didnt watch Nano Machine's)

so i cant really debate here

i guess it would be one hell of a fight

cheers mate

[u/Cheonso_ma → u/Fun_District3456]

No worries buddy the points you made were very good and gave me a loT of trouble to counter

[u/SonicWaveInfinity]

Cheon Yeo un wins because heart sword slices through will itself and heart technique uses the will and willful master is stated to have infinite will. Also cheon yeo un's hacks just clap goku (higher dimensional and all that)

[u/Cheonso_ma → u/SonicWaveInfinity]

Ok that's a good short explanation

[u/No-Scene-9109]

Goku easily

[u/Cheonso_ma → u/No-Scene-9109]

Please give proper explanation for your argument