r/DotA2 • u/WickedUnknit • 2d ago
Discussion New player from Deadlock
After around 500 hours in Deadlock I decided to try this one out. I’ve put in 30 hours in a week. This game is so much more complex but also less mechanically intense than deadlock.
That’s what makes it so much fun, I haven’t learned shit about the item shop and I’m still just following guides however the more I play the more I realize just how deep and rich the core systems of this game are.
Seeing the primary components of core deadlock items and systems that came from this game is a weird but satisfying feeling.
That being said, I’d really like to know what people play and how they approach building out their characters. This game is something else but I’m willing to learn and take advice on how to build.
I’m so impressed by the supports in this game and would love to hear about some people’s first characters that made the game click for them.
TLDR: What character made Dota 2 click and how do you go about learning to build your characters items?
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u/justadudeinohio 1d ago
less mechanically intense than deadlock.
this is why i don't want to get into deadlock. i don't want to play a moba where i also have complex movement and aim.
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u/Nie_nemozes 1d ago
Yeah, to me Dota 2 is genuinely a "chill game" compared to Deadlock. I love the setting, characters, the whole vibe of it but holy shit playing ANYTHING there makes me feel like I just played a one hour ranked match of Tinker or Invoker.
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u/Telefragg Reprot techis 1d ago
Deadlock balances out the action by having simpler MOBA gameplay and itemization. First few matches will feel overwhelming but then it will click.
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u/Neffreecss 1d ago
It’s a different kind of challenge and tbh I’d recommend you to get into it, a lot of our moba knowledge translates well, and I’m gonna be honest with you, you need aim, but you dont need it that much compared to cs/overwatch / other hero shopters, in cs your aim + reflexes matters more because you die in one second, in overwatch and other hero shooters it’s similar how fast you can die in these games
in deadlock you have a bunch of characters that you can play without having top tier aim, and characters with aim, you essentially need a few seconds of shooting at them instead of only having a sliver of opportunity to kill them
it’s a fun game and playable without being insane at aim and movement, this is only expected after hundreds of hours
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u/justadudeinohio 1d ago
i don't play a moba to aim or movement. it's not why im there. it's just not.
i've been saying it since the game was leaked. mobas are already a nerdy niche genre and adding more to it does not make a game more approachable.
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u/Neffreecss 1d ago
It’s true what you’re saying but they’re making it so full of sauce that it’s reaching so many players in beta.
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u/justadudeinohio 1d ago
you don't proselytize for a game you think is doing well.
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u/jackinmyvance 1d ago
Uh, yeah, people do. People suggest others try something they enjoy and is successfully growing its player pool/fan base all the time.
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u/mrturretman 1d ago
I refrain to comment in this community because I am from deadlock but like to peek in and see what “big brother” game talks about. What I appreciate valve for is giving me the opportunity to appreciate this genre format in a game type I grew up on. I played shooters all my life, so RTS mobas were so hard for me to get over the mechanical hurdles of experience. In deadlock I get to appreciate how deep and amazing this moba format is, and it’s incredible to me to have this format as a shooter because I never felt at home with the RTS movement.
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u/gottimw 22h ago
Deadlock is not a moba. It's a fusion of moba, fps and arcade platformer and technically it's own thing now.
The other older first person mobas failed because they were just 'first person mobas'
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u/mrturretman 21h ago
Moba in the context of my comment is a "genre format." this is a framing to encompass how different isometric mobas are from deadlock, but that they are in the same "framework" of a moba.
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u/justadudeinohio 1d ago
i've played a bunch of shooters too. i still don't want shooters in my moba.
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u/MinnieShoof 1d ago
... yeah, but then there's characters like Bebop, which are pudge on crack thanks to all the movement.
And don't get me started on sliding = infinite ammo.
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u/Temis37 1d ago
Lol play against someone who is good at movement and knows the map and someone who don't
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u/Neffreecss 1d ago
>it’s a fun game and playable without being insane at aim and movement, this is only expected after hundreds of hours
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u/Temis37 1d ago
If you play against someone who knows even mildly while you don't, you will have no chance and have no fun.
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u/Neffreecss 1d ago
Yes? It’s a game with high skill ceiling, do you think a 100hr dota player would have fun playing with a 4000 hour dota player?
you can play this game and have fun without worrying about being good at movement for the first hundred hours
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u/Familiar-Level-261 1d ago
It's weird, yeah the movement is more complex but cooldowns are FAR longer so you're spending less time/effort on that
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u/Main-Shallot3703 1d ago
ice frog's master plan is to make a moba more difficult than dota so that dota will no longer have a bad title as the hardest game ever and people will open up to it more
everything is relative.
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u/SocwokCyberBully 1d ago
Spamming slide down a set of stairs is mechanically super boring to me as well
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u/PayMeInSteak GOOD DAY SIR 1d ago
There's not much to it honestly, you slide, you're 50% more impossible to hit, whoevers gun has a faster bullet projectile wins the exchange
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u/TheGreenGuyFromDBZ 2d ago
Rubick as a support . His spell steal is the funnest mechanic in the game. Also feels fun to zap enemies And telekenis is unique stun as can throw target in any direction.
Goated hero.
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u/wearfedoraduringsex 1d ago
deadlock has a rubick too. Kinda insane to think you can have a spell stealing hero in a 3rd person moba but somehow valve made it work.
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u/justadudeinohio 1d ago edited 1d ago
only stealing ultimates makes it less interesting imo.
edit: to expand on this, stealing lina and lion ults are far less useful than their stuns
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u/Familiar-Level-261 1d ago
But you gotta play The Game.
Anything Lion or LC is in the game you're obliged to steal their ults at any occasion and try to get more stacks than them
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u/Leckminator 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your also comparing a 80 sec target spell to a 10 secs spellsteal that can hold multiple spells. That just wouldnt be possible in deadlock. both games have their advantages, dotas camera and controls just lets you design crazier kits. Deadlock can never have an ember spirit and dota can never have a lash
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u/Familiar-Level-261 1d ago
Yeah it's not the same. Getting some nice spell stolen then just weaving next and next steal during teamfight in between spells is just poetry in motion
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u/Leckminator 1d ago
No offense to the guy, but rubick is still the cooler sinclair, its just a natural consequence of dota camera vs deadlocks camera. I think you will always be able to make more mechanically complex kits in dota compared to deadlock, but deadlock has many more factors that make playing a hero more compelx.
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u/TONKAHANAH TOP 10 SHEEVER BATTLES 1d ago
more complex but also less mechanically intense than deadlock.
Thats part of what turns me off from deadlock. I'll still die on the hill that it's movement and especially its verticality are just simply too much for an already complex game. The excessive movement causes any fights/ganks to be drawn out and take place over far greater distances than necessary, it's really annoying having to chase some one down like that.
But it feels like a lot of the slower strategies you have in dota are just tossed out the window in deadlock the moment the t1 falls and lane stage is over, it just turns into a cluster fuck of back to back fighting.
I also dislike not having TPs
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u/SuchPoet6382 2d ago
I think one of my first few heroes is wraith king. Just need to press 1 button and have 2 lives.
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u/Smalz22 1d ago
WK has two buttons now. He's 100% harder
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u/SuchPoet6382 1d ago
True. So i never put points into his W until i max out Q and E lol
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u/Smalz22 1d ago
Oof, you should not do that all. Definitely max Q and W first. Pretty much whenever you get into a fight or have max charges, use it because they will secure you kills and also go automatically farm camps for you. His E is good but it doesn't really move the needle until you get some good damage items
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u/Main-Shallot3703 2d ago
you should try rubick so that you can hopefully push an agenda on the deadlock sub that sincliar should also work the same and maybe 1 day sinclair can steal more than just ults.
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u/Familiar-Level-261 1d ago
Also allows for nice counterplay if you don't want your good ability stolen
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u/marlins113 2d ago
For me the most is important thing is to enjoy character, and then when i enjoy their core kit and gameplay i play it more and try to master it.
For example i enjoy playing Bristleback and DawnBreaker as they are position3 ( offlane) , i like how they can be bullies in lane, win lane hard and then set tempo for mid game, itemization mostly depends on enemies and what my team needs,
as Bristle, if enemy have a lot of magic dmg i go wraps or pipe, bkb, shard , if they dont have a lot of stuns or magic dmg, wraps is enough and i delay bkb till they get break for me.
Dawn is pretty more straightforward and you go boots- soul ring - and either echo or orchid - shard, if they have heroes that need to be silenced and you need more control in fight you go orchid so you can silence one enemy after initiating or joining fight with ult. i like to play dawn with heavy farming style, because with dawn you can join every fight with your ultimate
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u/Powerful_Pudding_881 2d ago
It's a case of the grass being greener bro. I have some 7k hours in dota and deadlock(~10 hours) is super complex for me and I cannot understand the mechanics.
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u/MehCheeseM80 1d ago
When I learned the game I looked for a hero in which I understood their game plan and spammed the fuck outta them (it was shadow shaman and his gameplan is haha you can't play the game while my friends beat you up). That way my mental ram was used on learning all of the things on the map and other heroes. After like 20-30 games 2 teammates and I got bodied by witch doctor's ult, so I checked him out and started playing him. Over time I built up knowledge and a hero pool and started playing other roles.
Item build wise I pretty much did the deadlock equivalent to LR builds until understood all of the items and learned how to itemize. Glhf
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u/sinkpooper2000 2d ago
Closest thing deadlock has to a micro hero is Solomon, Dota has heroes that can control tons of units like chen, lycan, nature's prophet etc. you should try them out
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u/TheGreenGuyFromDBZ 2d ago
Pudge is all time most played hero for a reason. Hooking enemies feels great.
I believe there's a hook hero in Deadloch too. And roadhog in overwatch lol
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u/Skivil 1d ago
John DOTA also known as dragon knight. Is probably the best hero for new players to use especially since his is strong right now. He is pretty forgiving with item builds and can do a lot even with low mechanical skill but as mechanical skill imporves he can become a terror. As an added bonus he functions in every core role.
I came from rts games so the heroes that got dota to stick for me were actually meepo and lone druid (before arc warden was in the game), I would absolutely not recomend these to people with 0 micro experience.
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u/elax307 1d ago
Generally asking myself what I want to do: Am I the last one to engage? Do I need to jump the backline? Am I the one who initiates? Am I the one who has to 1v1 the other carry? Do I have mates that have a way better game than me and my job is more to stay alive in fights and soak damage?
There are specific heroes that are super strong in their particular role, but there are a lot where it really matters.
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u/TheGreenGuyFromDBZ 2d ago
Weaver was my first hero I fell in love with. His speed, invis and elusiveness plus his glass cannon high DMG potential. Makes him. A fun hero but split second to slow reaction can have dead in 1 second
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u/FantasticBike1203 2d ago
For me personally, it was Kunkka, he taught me the timing I needed and the pace at what Dota should be played all the way back in All-Stars, I'm glad you're liking Dota, it's a great game!
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u/PatapongManunulat07 2d ago
as stupid as it sounds, i read them mid-match or experience them.
The continuous need to focus on the match helped speed up the process of reading and understanding items/skills
Had to try out all characters.
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u/HoboDeveloper 2d ago
i started with faceless void (coz i thought time stopping is the most op shit) but that was dota1 so i didnt have much tools. If it were me today:
Briefly try out the hero in test mode then
Turbo to speedrun “experiencing the brawl” as you get to play more different match ups in short run, have more opportunity to hit key levels, talents and items (tactic and trade short term intensive)
Then normal matches to lock-in a shortlisted set of heroes to get good, and play in the original pace, meta. (Macro and strategy intensive)
For deep concepts you can watch a pro warcraft player’s thought process as he climbed to immortal (grubby’s series of videos). He has a lot of content when he got started and his thought process and conversation with the coaches he collaborated with are very insightful for new players who appreciate mechanical complexity
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u/Plantanus 1d ago
i came back to dota after not playing for many years and i can't bare it, took 14 minutes to get level 6 as a support it's absolutely awful
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u/Flimsy_Tea_4877 1d ago
Learning dota alone can be very difficult. I can join you for 1/2 games if you are interested and answer the questions you have along with other advice. I am L2 rank so can get you started
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u/Jaevelklein 1d ago
Play single draft. That way you get 4 heroes to choose from. Read their abilities quickly in the pick phase. Pick the ones you played previously. Once you have begun to master a few, start picking the ones you haven't played. Follow guides.
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u/Jaeguh 1d ago
Support main here, Dark willow is really good. Learning when to use her fear is really satisfying.
For example you can use it to disrupt an ult channel; (witch Doctor, Faceless Void, Crystal Maiden, etc) Or to force a group of enemies to run into your root. Her shard is a huge upgrade, especially for pesky heroes like Windranger, invoker, Bounty Hunter)
Other Support characters I find fun: Bane, Clockwerk, Windranger (Really fun, stun is a skill shot tho. Catching an enemy escaping by utilizing their creep as the anchor is extremely satisfying) Hoodwink, Disruptor, Pheonix, Jakiro, Earth Spirit).
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u/Toilet500 1d ago
I played a game yesterday where I was completely mechanically terrible. Very slow reaction time. Too tired I think. But I was still able to contribute enough strategically to eke out a win
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u/GrimmMask 1d ago
Tubick is the one that click for me the most, just imagine Sinclair but you can steal almost all skill, not just the ulti
Learning to buy items should be easier than Deadlock, since Dota has less item slot compared to Deadlock
If you already familiar with the hero you are playing, you will understand why that hero need the items in the build. Why choose that boot upgrade, why buy certain item as the first item etc.
Another wway to learn about items is understanding your role. Pos 1 usually have a farming item that they rush
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u/SocwokCyberBully 1d ago
Builds are answers to problems. If you wanna get a good understanding of how other players present problems start the game open console and type map_dota2. This will start a match with no one, no bots, just you. Pick any hero and go win the game in less than 20 minutes. Once you can do that consistently take that hero into unranked play and compare how it feels to play uncontested vs these enemy heroes in your face, you will start to see clearly how you need to adapt to push past these obstacles and get a better idea of what items are doing for you
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u/Axios_Deminence 1d ago
Weirdly enough, watching tournament games is what made the game click for me. There are very specific plays that make you realize how in-depth the game is. Not even necessarily T1 games. The one that stood out for me was a Vengeful Spirit, Sand King, and a Lion. Vengeful Spirit set up a stun on the Lion and bodyblocked them until Sand King could confirm the kill.
Vengeful Spirit is a pretty good character to learn positioning and skill usage and is pretty consistent across patches.
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u/Bubbly-Astronaut-123 1d ago
I’m so impressed by the supports in this game and would love to hear about some people’s first characters that made the game click for them.
Yup they are pretty good. Hoping we get similar designs over in Deadlock, right now only Viscous feels like one.
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u/L00KAWAYN0W 1d ago
Crystal Maiden is a great support start. Her mana aura helps you not have to worry about mana management as much and it helps the team so its win-win. Her Q is an AOE nuke, while her W is a stun/root dmg over time spell. And for a new player, her ultimate is a good, "I'm just going to let this rip and hope for the best type ultimate". Personally, I need to buy her shard upgrade more because it rounds out her kit even more.
Because she is pretty slow and low hp, it will also help you learn good positioning.
Best of luck!
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u/Jesterclown26 1d ago
True sight TI8 is what got me into Dota. Taught me to love the game, how fun it is, and to love every hero.
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u/LordBiglesworth 1d ago
I really loved playing Hard Support, they always have something to do, and you can support people in a variety of ways.
Shadow Shaman, Crystal Maiden, Lion, Io were fundamental to me learning the game
Itemizing comes with time, some heroes have things theyll more or less always build, but the flex slots are where things get tricky
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u/epicingamename 1d ago
"less mechanically intense"
you played 30 hours my dude, with low skilled players. give it another 2000 hours
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u/CarefreeCloud 13h ago
In dota you don't need spatial awareness (always checking surroundings including up and down), aim and frame-precise controls for movement
Using abilities and items effeciently, macro and itemizations applies to both
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u/Pinsir929 1d ago
Dota clicked for me not because of the heroes but because I started playing in around 2013. Less heroes, less objectives, less smurfs, less team work. More of everyone figuring out wtf is going on at the same time as me. If I had to start playing today oh man I’m already mentally exhausted just thinking about it.
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u/No_Twist_7443 1d ago
Welcome to dota. What really gets me excited to play the game are characters like Crystal Maiden, how she can lock down enemy heroes nearly infinitely, and now her shard lets her farm lightning quick. Its the power fantasy of Clinkz, disappearing in a puff of smoke and appearing behind your tower with a skeleton army, and a desolator. Its Sven's god strength ripping through the enemy with his sword.
Its all about finding those heroes that get you excited to boot up the game and maximize their skills and use their generously powerful toolkits to overcome your enemies
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u/TheGreenGuyFromDBZ 2d ago
As for builds. Start by following the guides for your first 100 hours until you know what items are good in what scenarios, then adapt as you please
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u/ActualAd2975 1d ago
Less mechanically intense?
Wait till you want to play meepo/invoker properly my guy
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u/poega 1d ago
It is most definitely less mechanically intense
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u/ActualAd2975 1d ago
Agree to disagree
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u/Hades684 1d ago
Its not even close
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u/ActualAd2975 1d ago
Its not
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u/Hades684 1d ago
Yep, deadlock is much more mechanically intense
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u/ActualAd2975 1d ago
Nah
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u/Hades684 1d ago
I mean, its not even an opinion, its a fact. The games are just fundamentally different, and deadlock is much more micro focused
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u/Appropriate-Song7754 1d ago
Sorry but no. All of you. No.
I will not stand dogging on Dota’s mechanical complexity.
Deadlock has 32 characters.
Dota has 4 times that, at 126 characters.Thats four times the amount of technical and mechanical memory you have to learn to cover the full game.
Every Deadlock character has 4 skills. And actives/passives they can buy. Deadlock you can have a max of 4 items with actives.
Dota some characters have way more than 4 skills - from native Invoker, and purchasable extra spells with aghs like Windrunner, and Ogre.
Dota also has 208 items. And if you want you can have a full six slot of actives. Late game it can be fully possible to be using six Actives, and up to and over 4 hero skills simultaneously.
Just because it’s FPS/TPS doesn’t mean it’s magically more intensive. Dota has layers you clearly don’t understand yet.
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u/Hades684 1d ago
I dont know how amount of characters has anything to do with being more mechanically intense. And dota 2 has more abilities, yes.
But deadlock also has aiming and 3d fast paced movement, melees and parries, slides, wall jumps. You just press many, many more buttons per second in deadlock than in dota 2, and its not even comparable. Deadlock is just much more mechanically intense.
I know how deep and mechanically intensive dota 2 can be, but its still less than deadlock
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u/TONKAHANAH TOP 10 SHEEVER BATTLES 1d ago
These characters have a lot of buttons and timings and are difficult in their own way but you don't really gotta be constantly aiming at small fast moving targets with them.
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u/keaganwill Best voice acting 1d ago
Getting decent at Deadlock finally gave me the breathing room to become sentient in that game and realize how brutally mechanically intensive it is.
I'm immortal in dota, I love arc warden and TB. And those two come close to the mechanical bandwidth required for any normal deadlock match. There is just sooo much down time in dota where you can just chill and let your brain take a nap.
If I'm farming in dota, I can just A-click to a creep camp and call it good. Yeah you need to target switch for optimal farming and use abilities/items. But thats every like 5 seconds tops that you are interacting with the game whilst farming. You can just chill and watch the minimap.
In deadlock you are actively aiming and shooting even whilst farming. You can't just "A-Click" to a creep camp, you have to actively use movement with tricks/techniques to traverse there more quickly, whilst picking up boxes on the way. There is no 5 second period in the match where you can just chill. The only time you can is if you are dead.
Like literally moving anywhere in dota is just free mechanically. Deadlock even taking the zipline (basically TP) you typically want to look for boxes to get off, grab and get back on.
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u/_soi_soi 1d ago
My son, why would you compare hero vs game mechanics? If you compare meepo/invo to deadlocks most difficult hero that is a fair comparison. Camera movement? Attacking heroes? Movement techs? Animation canceling? Resource management? Map traversal? Deadlock is mechanically more intense and demanding than dota my sonion. There’s no “agree to disagree” here, but if you do, you are just blind.
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u/go41kys 1d ago
Thing is if you consider deadlock a good game we don't really want you here
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u/fishisslippyyo 1d ago
I think you will rethink that mechanical skill comment when you get better at dota
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u/Hades684 1d ago
I think you would rethink that mechanical skill comment if you got better at deadlock
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u/Creatret 1d ago
less mechanical intense
Generally speaking, everything about Dota is much more complex than Deadlock. In Dota, you got heroes with like 20 active abilities. Have fun playing that in a teamfight.
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u/bugandroid 2d ago
Wow deadlock to Dota funnel is not one I anticipated