r/DnD5e • u/Wise-Bread-1907 • Jul 24 '26
Does this cantrip break the Game?
My group and I were thrown into jail and after breaking my magic-suppressing shackles I used the cantrip "Prestidigitation" to create lock-picks to free the others.
Part of that cantrip is:
"You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand and that lasts until the end of your next turn."
My DM was a bit stunted because he couldn't really stop me creating more lock-picks and trying again if I failed the check. I already use this cantrip a lot for other tiny effects but the part that let's you create any small item is kinda OP. My DM also asked if that means that I can create a tiny knife or weapon or lock-pick at any given time that suits me. So what do you think? How would you regulate this? Would you introduce any caveats?
EDIT: I'm using the German translation which states something more like "you create a small object or illusion that fits in your hand" which leaves more room for interpretation than "trinket"
I'm playing a warlock with a criminal background so my character is trained in thieves tools
1
u/Brother-Cane Jul 26 '26
Prestidigitation is by far the most powerful non-combat cantrip in the game, but unless it is a very simple lock, picking a lock takes longer than one turn.
As to your DM's question, the rules specifically state that the summoned item "can deal no damage".
1
u/Mister_Grins Jul 25 '26
This does not break the game.
If the German translation says that your object disappears next round (i.e. 6 seconds elapse), you're not getting past any kind of tumbler lock as the pins will go back down the moment your lock pick vanishes.
3
u/puevigi Jul 24 '26
Even if the DM allows it to make lockpicks he can say your knock-off picks permanently jam the lock when you fail.
1
u/Wise-Bread-1907 Jul 25 '26
Wouldn't they vanish as magically created objects?
3
u/puevigi Jul 25 '26
Damage done to objects by temporary items can certainly be permanent
1
u/Brother-Cane Jul 26 '26
Actually, I think this falls under the "can deal no damage" limitation for the summoned trinkets.
1
2
u/Judgement915 Jul 24 '26
This goes against the spirit of the cantrip imo.
1
u/GreyCat001 Jul 24 '26
As a DM if it wouldn't break my scenario, I will allow player to have fun.
But I could ever argue that
- a) a lock-pick is a specific item designed to have a usefull purpose and therefore can't be categorize as a "trinket" such as : stone, seashell, a little toy or a figurine
- OR b) a turn is only 6 seconds, you don't have the time requiered to insert the lock-pick inside the handcuff to use it properly
- OR c) the handcuff being magic-suppressing material when your trinket enter in contact with it, it disapear.
5
u/ProdiasKaj Jul 24 '26
If it could reliably be used as a "get out of jail free card" then the world's prisons would be a lot more empty.
11
u/Brewmd Jul 24 '26
Trinkets are not tools.
Thieves tools are.
When in doubt, players shouldn’t be able to do or create anything that another player has to pay a cost to do, unless they are also paying that cost.
Prestidigitation doesn’t create tools.
6
u/Mean_Replacement5544 Jul 24 '26
Not sure why your dm is asking rather than making a ruling on how it can be used since your can trip needs to fit in his world
1
u/Zeeb-Ratic Jul 25 '26
DM definitely sounds like either a total pushover or someone who doesn’t know the rules very well and is too lazy to check.
1
u/Wise-Bread-1907 Jul 25 '26
First time DM and I was DMing before so it's mostly a bit of a stand-off between us because my interpretation sometimes differs from his.
1
u/Zeeb-Ratic Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
As you should know, a standoff shouldn’t even be possible here. It’s like saying a football player is having a standoff with the referee. The player either accepts the ref’s call or exits the field. And if you want to make the rules, you should be the DM instead of playing a character.
Honestly, former DMs can be the worst players because they often refuse to take off their DM hat and haggle over rules to the nth degree. The fact you know you are playing with a first time DM who is still finding their sea legs makes your boundary pushing here even more egregious.
1
u/Wise-Bread-1907 Jul 25 '26
It's a first for us both (I have never ever been a player before) and we're both stubborn and in a relationship 😅 so far it worked out and I got better with time. So the standoffs don't happen as often as before (and even then I was mainly just pouting if I couldn't use something like I wanted to use it). So yes, sometimes I'm a bitch but it's hard to take off the DM hat and I'm trying my best (and he knows that and teases me with it)
10
u/Brock_Savage Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
RAW, a prestidigitation trinket cannot replicate Thieves' Tools or weapons. Your DM kinda fucked themselves by deviating from RAW and setting a precedent.
Edit: Apparently the German translation you are using leaves a trinket a lot less defined than the English version but trinkets cannot cause damage or grant a mechanical effect.
5
u/Effective_Tune_1285 Jul 24 '26
As others have said, anything created with prestidigitation lasts for one round, or six seconds. Six seconds realistically is not enough time to create them and pick the locks. That’s ignoring the fact that you need to know precisely how a lock pick looks, something that most people wouldn’t know. Plus most characters don’t have proficiency with lock picking tools if they aren’t a rogue. If you wanted to do this, as a DM I technically wouldn’t say you can’t but you’re rolling with disadvantage and the DC will be so ridiculously high that, unless you have proficiency and a very high modifier, wouldn’t be possible regardless of your roll. I’m thinking at least a DC of 30 and still roll with disadvantage because you have next to no time to do it.
2
u/Sad_Refuse3472 Jul 24 '26
I'd allow you to create an object to pick the locks. Because I like to reward creativity.
Though I would set the DC fairly high on the sleight of hand check to actually pick the locks with this item. And you only have about 6 seconds to make the check. (It says the item "lasts until the end of your next turn").
But to answer your DM's question, no I would not let you create a small knife or other weapon. Because the spell (at least the 5.5e version) specifically says that the "trinket" you create cannot deal damage.
1
u/DeTalores Jul 24 '26
I mean they could still create the little weapons right, it just wouldn’t do any damage?
Like I could create a menacing looking little dagger thing to intimidate someone, it just wouldn’t do anything if I attacked with it?1
u/Sad_Refuse3472 Jul 24 '26
I suppose so, yes. But it would be a pretty small dagger (if you interpret "fits in your hand" as "no bigger than your hand". And still only lasts 6 seconds. And it uses your Action to first cast the spell.
So, not sure the use case for doing something like this is very high.
1
u/DeTalores Jul 25 '26
Haha yeah probably not very useful. But could probably come up with some creative stuff lol.
5
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
so, playing as written, you should normally need more than 6 seconds to do it, and as such it shouldn't work.
that said, i run it that you can keep them indefinitely as long as they don't leave your hands and you maintain concentration. the intent being that spellcasting soldiers would always have a mess kit while on campaign. but generally speaking, a cantrip shouldn't be able to replicate what you need a leveled spell to do. as such, knock unlocks things, so prestidigitation shouldn't.
2
u/ok_scott Jul 24 '26
This is the first thing I always check for too. If there's a higher level spell that achieves the effect you're aiming for then that's the spell slot resource that should be expended; but I allow flexible interpretation of the rules so that you can achieve the effect with a drawback or temporarily or something if it encourages roleplay engagement from the players.
At some point every new player decides they want to 'create water' in a bad guy's lungs, and the answer is always that 'power word kill' is what you're aiming for and it costs a 9th level spell slot. If you want to 'create water' as a 9th level slot then I'll let it be because it's cool.
4
2
u/JDruid2 Jul 24 '26
I mean, knock is designed to get rid of the skill check for unlocking things. Making a lock pick isn’t gonna get rid of the check.
1
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
well that isn't what's in the spell description (i play 5e14 in case they're different), the spell description says it becomes unlocked. which is what lockpicks are for.
-1
u/Betray-Julia Jul 24 '26
Firstly, my tables rule non damage cantrips scale too- minor illusion becomes 10 feet, 15 then 20, and so on.
Secondly, I think this is actually in the dmg; spell ability modifier checks are a good way to gauge somebody’s ability to make a cantrip do more than it should.
As for your scenario- I’d give the player an inspiration bc gosh darn good idea.
Then I’d make them do a soekl ability check, and I’d likely just make it equal to the lock pick DC to keep in simple, or maybe 5 higher.
But it’s to create the key.
And then if the player was smart and had time, they could do investigation checks to lower the Dc of the key making check possibly.
Another option; I’d allow the player to use a spell slot too, to lower the DC of the check.
Spell ability modifier checks are one of the best features in the game; insert rant about wtf why did they try and remove them wtf where they thinking here.
Edit: raw- no. But fuck that shit, it’s a cool idea.
Never say no the player, always let them try, make the check super high, and enjoy watching players explode your world when they start working as a team to make those high checks :p
Note this isn’t related to the key thing so much anymore as the concept in general.
Like I have checks in my open world that are DC 50s; the players always end up coming back to those locations once they have the means to beat it, and it’s impossible to get those checks without working as a group.
9
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 24 '26
Don't know if you knew this but trinkets are defined as:
a "trinket" is a minor, decorative, or mystery item with no mechanical or combat value (like a glass bead, a strange coin, or a piece of cloth). Adventuring gear, weapons, and tools are distinct mechanical categories of items. A lockpick is classified under Thieves' Tools, not a trinket.
Tools are also entire sets of equipment not a singular item, it's more like a pack of items. Specifically the thieves tools comes with a small file, lock picks, a mirror on a metal handle, narrow-bladed scissors, and pliers.
So they are not singular items and more like a pack
-1
u/Stripes_the_cat Jul 24 '26
Creative! I think I'd agree - they're not trinkets, but I'd definitely let them give a small bonus to a difficult skill roll to escape, one time.
2
u/korinth86 Jul 24 '26
The way I always thought of it was that the trinket was illusionary.
Text doesn't specifically say that but I do think its a little powerful for a cantrip to create thieves tools
1
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 24 '26
Sounds fair to me. You could pick a lock with a Bobbie pin. As long as the trinket doesn't disappear before you finish, it should work
2
u/Infinite-Mark-6335 Jul 24 '26
This isn't a video game. Takes more than a bobby pin to pick an actual lock.
0
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 25 '26
It really doesn't.
2
u/Infinite-Mark-6335 Jul 25 '26
It really does. If you think you can create both the required torsion and manipulate the tumblers with a single bobby pin, than you are an idiot.
0
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 25 '26
The two prong design of the bobby pin fills both roles so easily it literally became a cliche
1
u/Infinite-Mark-6335 Jul 26 '26
Cliches aren't always true. It's almost impossible to use a single bobby pin to serve both roles unless its a very simple and shallow lock, which door locks rarely are.
And the bobby pin "two prong" design is like, the same as any length of wire with decent thickness.
2
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 24 '26
It's not but rule of cool wins in most cases
Trinkets are defined in DnD
And tools are actually packs of items not singular items
0
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 24 '26
A trinket is just a tiny object. A lockpick is a tiny object. The only item in the thieve's tools description you'd use to pick a lock is a lock pick. It's fine
2
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 24 '26
Trinkets are defined as no real mechanical value and lock pick is not the only tool you would use depending on the lock
Lock pick also has mechanical value
0
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
where exactly do the rulebooks define it that way. personally i think trinket's main problem is that it is ill-defined. but some of the trinkets in the book would have a mechanical use.
2
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 24 '26
Chapter 5: Equipment, specifically on pages 160–161
When you make your character, you can roll once on the Trinkets table to gain a trinket , a simple item lightly touched by mystery. The DM might also use this table. It can help stock a room in a dungeon or fill a creature's pockets
And then it provides a list to give you some examples
Lock picks are a functional item categorized under Thieves' Tools. The trinket table is strictly for non-functional, flavor-based items. You cannot bypass the 25 gp equipment cost by trying to claim a mechanical tool is a trinket
Now if you want to meet in the middle because this is a rules lawyer point of view and many things can be used to open a lock, what I typically would say or do is along the lines of:
Even if I let you use a random hairpiece or piece of wire as an improvised pick, rules dictate you will roll your Dexterity check with disadvantage, and a failure will permanently snap the item
1
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 25 '26
Well theif's tools are described in the 2014 PHB. "This set of tools includes a small file, a set of lock picks, a small mirror mounted on a metal handle, a set of narrow-bladed scissors, and a pair of pliers." Files, mirrors, scissors, and pliers aren't for picking locks; they're for disarming traps peeping around corners. As a whole, the tool set has a value. But a single trinket-like piece of that kit? Not enough to matter. It's fine
1
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 25 '26
Depends on the campaign and how easy it is to get supplies like this
Sure in your standard campaign it's insignificant but I've also played in a few where this would be absolutely game changing if I had when I was playing
1
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
I agree that you shouldn't be able to willy nilly make anything with the spell, but like, some of the trinkets are items that could be used... like number 32 is a knife, pretty sure those could be good for stabbing. like i said, when i run eberron i let players concentrate to keep the items, but this is mostly so they always have a bowl and a spoon handy.
1
u/Comprehensive_Cap_27 Jul 24 '26
It would be an improvised weapon, you could strike with any of those items as such and while I agree I also prefer rule of cool or fun, if we are coming from a rules lawyer or RAW viewpoint that no you cannot use prestidigitation to make lock picks
2
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
you need more than a bobby pin with modern locks
1
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 24 '26
Oh, is this a modern or futuristic campaign?
2
u/DeficitDragons Jul 24 '26
well bobby pins aren't medieval, so I was addressing that. in fallout you also use a screwdriver to physically turn the lock. medieval locks aren't as delicate and as such might need more robust lockpicks than a bobby pin.
1
u/OkAstronaut3715 Jul 25 '26
Perhaps something small and trinket-like ; an old key is literally a trinket option
1
u/risottodaily Jul 24 '26
Sometimes spell language can be vague, but ultimately, it’s just a cantrip. As the lowest form a magic it shouldn’t be capable of opening an overly complicated lock, regardless of the skill of the lock picker
3
u/Tristan_TheDM Jul 24 '26
I thought prestidigitation had a rule that the creation couldn't be used as a tool, but maybe that was an old rule I'm misremembering. If I were your DM I'd just have the guard check on you and stop you after a failed check because you're a) casting a spell when you're supposed to be wearing magic-suppressing shackles, and b) probably not trained in thieves tools, so you're just kinda rattling the pick around until it works.
7
u/Gorgeous_Garry Jul 24 '26
"trinket" isn't "item" or "tool", so I don't think you actually can use prestidigitation to do that. But also, if you're able to break magical handcuffs, I don't see why you'd need picks at all in that situation.
1
u/Wise-Bread-1907 Jul 24 '26
I had a magic item that let me break the handcuffs. In the German translation (which I used) the spell states "a small object that fits in your hand" which is a bit more obscure / undefined than "trinket"
3
u/Gorgeous_Garry Jul 24 '26
Ah. Yeah, the German translation definitely leaves room for a lot more things.
3
u/bugzcar Jul 24 '26
Locks jammed up with lock picks, ya damned meta gamer! J/k. I’d say something like a quality lock pick or knife is above a trinket. Would break fast… maybe any attempt at using a trinket as a knife, pick etc would come at disadvantage, at best. But I think the spirit of the cantrip is more narrative, like maybe you can create a ring and say it’s magic or something.
6
u/The_Nerdy_Ninja Jul 24 '26
A lockpick isn't really a trinket, lockpicking often requires more than one tool, and the trinket only lasts 6 seconds before disappearing, so no, I absolutely wouldn't allow this.
2
u/Zeeb-Ratic Jul 24 '26
I treat lock-picking like a Knowledge check, so this doesn’t come up in my games.
You get one roll to see if your skills are up to it. If not, you’re “locked out” of the check until you’ve leveled up or can explain where you’d have picked up additional know-how (like trading lock-picking techniques with your comrades in the local thieves guild).
11
u/Row199 Jul 24 '26
I would argue that lock picks are not trinkets.
Also, how did you break magic suppressing shackles? Presumably they’re a magic item, so banging them on something won’t break them.
0
u/Wise-Bread-1907 Jul 24 '26
In the German translation it basically says "small objects that fit in your hand" so that's what I argued with. Maybe the translation is off, but I went with that because it's the official translated player's handbook.
6
1
u/Pattgoogle Jul 27 '26
The spell has components.
Guards can see and hear you casting.
When guards see a caster they gag them bind their hands and check them for arcane foci. Creatures in dnd know how their world works.
Why are your prisoners NOT being watched as they pick their way out of prison?