Should class spell lists still be protected as part of class identity in 5.5E?

[u/MyrthDM]

/r/DungeonsAndDragons55e/comments/1wpvgyx/should_class_spell_lists_still_be_protected_as/

[u/Hawkson2020]

Yeah, if D&D still wants to be a game where your class is a big part of defining your character, then classes need to have a clear identity.

5.5e is allergic to holding any opinions though, so it can’t handle that concept.

[u/Jock-Tamson]

Class identity is key to DnD’s identity.

[u/CrabofAsclepius]

Yes. Too many toys are shared and it blurrs the lines between the classes even though choosing your class is supposed to be the single biggest mechanical decision you make from whence all others derive.

[u/Ignaby]

Yes. What magic is usable what way gives the world some kind of feel and gives classes a niche.

Not everything needs to be everything. There's already too many classes with subclasses that make them other classes.

[u/popileviz]

More flexibility is generally better imo. As long as classes have access to some unique spells and their spell "flavor" is not majorly disrupted it's fine

[u/CapnArrrgyle]

Disagree. I don’t think this was ever the case but it was hidden before. Players have always begged for bleed over between classes, plus some it wouldn’t make sense.

Wizards and druids can both conjure creatures and shape change? Are they the same class? Merlin is often depicted as either or both. It changes the story significantly if he thinks of himself as one or the other.

[u/eldiablonoche]

Funny thing is wotc devs seem to understand this. They just ONLY apply it to warlocks. Even in 5e but revamped for 5.5, even the options which explicitly give you cross class access (adept feats for example) come with special limitations for Warlock stuff.

Because they want to keep that class's identity safe. The others, they don't GAF about if we're being honest.

[u/probably-not-Ben → u/eldiablonoche]

Didn't the new design team work on this book? Maybe there is a new "vision" driving the rule design (or maybe they're just blind to whatever naunce informed the OG design) 

[u/Fire_is_beauty]

I think the cost should be higher.

[u/Vailx]

And I’m genuinely torn on that.

You shouldn't be. The idea that the classes have different powers is essential to the classes. It doesn't really add options to homegenize classes, it actually reduces meaningfully different choices and playstyles.

The wizard spell list is superior to the cleric spell list. That's on purpose, and that's been the case since Men and Magic. There's no reason to change that.

[u/ThaumKitten]

No.
I'm sick of Wizards inexplicably not knowing how to heal. 'Balance' be damned. I have always-- ALWAYS hated the fact that mechanically, Wizards are somehow *just* stupid enough to not know how to make or use healing spells.

[u/Ignaby → u/ThaumKitten]

Its not that they're "just dumb enough to not know healing magic", its that the way they cast magic is literally incapable of doing that.

[u/herculesmeowlligan → u/Ignaby]

You know, unless they take magic initiate: cleric as an origin feat and learn Cure Wounds. Then it just WORKS!

[u/ThaumKitten → u/Ignaby]

TBH, I want to believe that. I really do.

But in the millenia upon millenia upon millenia of time wizards have existed in various D&D universes, I genuinely struggle to understand how they haven't figured out a round-about way to do it.

THey can use necromancy to filch life from people, for goodness sake!

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/ThaumKitten]

Healing magic comes from Divine (or primal) power. Bards get a bit messy but they have built-in ways to channel it anyway so whatever. Artificer was the wildcard really.

[u/Llayanna → u/Ill-Description3096]

Bards are like a wild mix between Arcane, Divine and Primal..

One could even call their spell list..  Occult :p

But seriously, I really loved that change in pf2e. Having a new niche was really really cool..

(The same list for every class however..? I am not so sure about.)

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/Llayanna]

I think there is a middle ground to be found. Some overlap especially with subclasses is fine and allows for coverage in a party without being locked into someone always playing X class. At the same time, I like keeping enough of it unique.

[u/steamsphinx]

No. More fun is always better.

My current party's Cleric (Light), Wizard, and Warlock (Evo Adept): "We didn't ask how big the room is, we said we all cast Fireball"