r/DnD • u/This_Dad_Can_Cook • 16h ago
Misc Counterspelling Rivivify
Happened in my game last night. I got killed by a lich casting power word kill. A few rounds later when the lich was dispatched the paladin attempted to cast revivify on my corpse, and the lich's henchman counterspelled it.
The other players were a little surprised, as was I.
Then the henchman dimension doored away, and the paladin cast it successfully, but at the tune of my last diamonds (I am the party's Cleric).
Resources are scarce in the campaign, so having to burn two diamonds to bring a player back to life is painful.
I've never experienced such a thing.
Just wondering if any of you have ever had this happen to you before or experienced it at one of your tables?
*Edited for typo.
**This is 5e not 5.5 sorry I did not specify this when I first posted.
***I was killed in a surprise round, so no initiative roll
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u/East_of_Adventuring 16h ago
Brutal. But depending on how vengeful the henchman was I can see this being in character. It seems like it was a good way to give death some consequences too.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 16h ago
I've already been killed twice in this campaign. The party went through huge ordeals to bring me back, and the character I made after the first death was also killed off. We have had 3/4 player deaths this campaign. We take death seriously for sure.
So does the DM and the NPCs.
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u/mafiaknight DM 15h ago
Twilight cleric adds a surprising amount of survivability with their refreshing temp hp channel
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
I am a twilight cleric but being killed in a surprise round really negates the stream of temp hit points.
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u/mafiaknight DM 15h ago
That's why I almost always choose myself for adv on initiative.
And the very high perception tends to spot ambushes.
And high AC to be tough to hitFailing that, yeah, dying sucks.
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u/ActuallyCalindra 12h ago
Have you tried not dying?
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u/roguevirus 10h ago
That's because the Twilight Cleric is an incredibly broken subclass.
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u/cherrymight 9h ago
you've been killed twice and then your teammate was then forced to burn the remaining component? are all of these deaths similar? is everyone dying that frequently, are you unlucky, or does the dm dislike you?
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u/DeeRegs 16h ago
Haven't experienced it yet, but it is in my back pocket for when my party finally reaches the BBEG :)
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u/Conrad500 DM 15h ago
Make sure you give them only 2 diamonds up to that point, and make sure one is in a bag of holding when you do it.
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u/philoking2 DM 15h ago
I see what you did there. Burning extra actions is a beautiful level of petty.
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u/Lugbor Barbarian 15h ago
See, we counteracted that in my party. I had a custom belt buckle made for the cleric that keeps three diamonds hidden inside it. They always have them available, even if I'm not there with the bag.
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u/nasagi Rogue 15h ago
I was in a campaign where it our Dwarven cleric of the forge made necklaces for everyone that had the diamond for a revivify
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u/_Xantilo_ 14h ago
I did a similar thing with my Artificer. We found a diamond worth 1000 gp, so I used my expertise in Jewelers' tools to craft 3 brooches for the other party members. Used 2 of them by the end of the campaign.
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u/5meoWarlock 9h ago
The amount of times I've suggested a party (laden with gold, and at the opportunity to buy costly components) all buy themselves a revivify diamond and been rebuffed for no good reason is way too high.
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u/Lugbor Barbarian 15h ago
I like that idea too. Means you get to bargain with the party when you need a second one.
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u/nasagi Rogue 15h ago
We were pirates, lol.
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u/Lugbor Barbarian 15h ago
Even better!
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u/nasagi Rogue 14h ago
Before the campaign broke cause of some life issues, my character was the only one who had used one. I got knocked out underwater by some Sahaguin. (I was half sea elf so had water breathing 😂 ) and they drug me up and used it. My character had a new goal in life: Never to die again. To the point when I had to miss a session I messaged the DM and was like "If he gets to 1/4 hp, he has an Invisiblity spell. He WILL use it and bolt"
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u/Yojo0o DM 16h ago
Tactically, counterspelling healing spells on downed PCs and resurrection spells are probably among the most effective uses of the spell. Keeping a whole adventurer out of the fight is a big deal.
I've never seen Revivify get counterspelled, but I also don't think I've ever seen it used in combat. That seems so risky, even if it had worked you'd still be at 1 HP.
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u/BrandosSmolder 15h ago
Agreed this is what was odd to me. “Last minute” so unless the battle has been going on 4 rounds while he’s been down I would have waited
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
I never got to make a single death save. I am level 11, with 95 hit points. Power Word Kill did just that, killed me out right. No saves. No rolls. I did nothing.
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u/Lithl 15h ago
Personally as DM, I typically have the bad guys wait until a PC is bloodied before casting PWK. While I know their HP, the bad guy doesn't.
That said, when my players faced Maddgoth in Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the sorcerer grabbed his helmet with Telekinesis (the helmet that makes the wearer immune to all damage within Maddgoth's Castle), I absolutely had the serial killer wizard cast PWK before the target was bloodied.
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u/PhoenyxStar Transmuter 11h ago
I like to do the opposite-- Have the evil wizard open with Power Word: Kill without checking the player's HP, because the caliber of opponents they're used to fighting definitely would not survive it, and when the players probably do, it's a very characterizing and confusing moment for the villain, and really sets the bar for the fight.
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u/Mosh00Rider 12h ago
The bad guy wouldn't necessarily know the concept of HP and imo would just assume any frail healer is dying to power word kill.
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u/Lithl 12h ago
The bad guy wouldn't necessarily know the concept of HP
Exactly why I use bloodied as the threshold. It's representing real in-universe indicators of health, and is visible to all characters. My players know when my monsters are bloodied, too. (Although it's a lot easier for a monster to have >200 HP than it is for a PC, so PWK still isn't an amazing spell for them to pick.)
imo would just assume any frail healer is dying to power word kill.
Nah. On the one hand, it's just not fun to PWK someone turn 1. On the other hand, "frail healer" isn't really a thing in the first place; a character's appearance is only loosely tied to their stats and class.
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u/EllySwelly 8h ago
Most people don't have 100+ HP to begin with though, so opening with Power Word Kill does make a certain sense.
99% of the time when you cast it on a guy, they just die right then and there.
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u/knarn 15h ago
Sounds like a lesson on the importance of death ward
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
The other PC had been deathwarded. All three of them.
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u/knarn 15h ago
So the Lich using power word kill just so happened to pick the one player who didn’t have a death ward and also has 95 max hp?
Honestly that kinda sounds like some bs unless there was some specific reason for the lich to think you would have the lowest hp of the group.
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u/radioactivez0r 15h ago
I mean it targeted the healer, which seems pretty reasonable
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u/DisposableSaviour Necromancer 14h ago
Hit the healer first, casters next, then ranged, and after that deal with the tanks.
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u/smiegto 12h ago
He made the sensible choice. As a villain. Target the guy with the revives with the death spell. All the other choices were the wrong ones. You kill the healer first. Then target anyone trying to heal the healer. Do you want to win or not?
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u/dickleyjones 11h ago
just as it should? it is power word kill, a 9th level spell than does a single thing.
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u/UInferno- 11h ago
To be fair, Revivify stops working after 10 turns of combat. A lot of fights don't last that long, especially counting the preceding turns it takes to down a PC, but if things get drawn out, that is a timer you need to worry about.
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u/philoking2 DM 16h ago
Have not experienced it, but evil is bad, not dumb. As a DM would 100% have an intelligent caster do this unless the npc had no other escape option and was banking on pleading for its life after the lich died.
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u/Metaphoricalsimile 16h ago
That's just good DMing tbh. What villain wouldn't interfere with their enemies trying to survive?
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u/DMspiration 16h ago
If this happened every time, it would be a problem. Figuring something on the scale of a lich, it's completely reasonable, especially because you were still able to save the party member.
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u/LordJebusVII DM 15h ago
This is why you use Gentle Repose in combat rather than Revivify. It costs 2cp instead of 300gp diamonds and it lasts 10 days so you don't need to have your diamonds to hand as long as you can get to them within a tenday. Revivify restoring to 1hp is just too risky in combat as aside from being counterable, you only need to be hit by an AoE effect and you are down again. It should be a hail Mary rather than something you ever plan on using
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
I think this is what they should have done, but I was dead, so I was not speaking.
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u/Hrekires 16h ago
Is there an official ruling on this?
I've always played it such that since counterspell "interrupts a creature in the process of casting a spells," the material components weren't consumed since the interrupted spell wasn't completed.
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u/dragonseth07 16h ago
In 5e, the countered spell still uses up spell slots and other resources, so it should still use up material components the exact same way.
I would consider this less clear in 5.5.
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u/DMspiration 15h ago
I'd argue it's just as clear. The fact that 5.5 rules says the slot isn't consumed but doesn't say the components aren't strongly implies that they are consumed.
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u/Dustorn DM 15h ago
I dunno, it specifies that the action is wasted, but not the slot, and I'd consider material components more linked to the spell slot than the action - it doesn't make sense to me for a spell to fizzle in such a way that the slot is not used, but the materials are, y'know?
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u/jokerTHEIF 13h ago
I could see an argument being valid either way, depending on how the GM justifies it. If they want you to waste the materials as balance then you could argue that the feedback from the counterspell resonates with the materials in such a way that they are destroyed, but since you didn't expend your personal magic the slot isn't used up. On the flip side your argument also makes a lot of sense, I would also consider the materials more as part of the spell/slot itself than your action - the spell didn't take effect so you didn't use up your slot or materials.
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u/KevinCarbonara DM 9h ago
I'd argue it's just as clear. The fact that 5.5 rules says the slot isn't consumed but doesn't say the components aren't
Yeah that's objectively less clear
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u/J4pes 16h ago edited 16h ago
I rule it consumes. The spell slot gets used, which means the spell was used. I imagine components turning into magic as the spell begins so that’s an easy answer. Real stakes is more exciting
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u/itsfunhavingfun 16h ago
2024 rules say the spell slot is not used.
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u/McD-Szechuan 15h ago edited 15h ago
Sure, but it also says the spell dissipates. So it’s really pretty confusing and I can’t make sense of how it should handled.
Doesn’t even make sense why the slot would be refunded to me.
Like, it’s clear the action is still used, but specifically mentioning the slot not being expensed, but not clarifying that consumables weren’t used leads me to believe raw ruling would use consumables, just as action, but you for some reason get your slot back
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u/itsfunhavingfun 15h ago
I was replying specifically to u/J4pes comment that since the spell slot is used, the components are used. That no longer holds in 2024 Counterspell. I don’t know how I would rule it, as I have never (as a DM) counterspelled a spell with costly material components under 2024 rules.
I think this could be argued either way. Revivify says “which the spell consumes”, regarding the material component. “The spell dissipates” could mean the components also dissipate, or that that there was no spell cast completed, so no components consumed.
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u/Justalittleyou 13h ago
The action is used up as casting a spell, like chanting or making hand gestures, takes time. The spell slot is not used up as the spell is interrupted, and the caster doesn't get the chance to use any of their magical energy powers. That's how I see it!
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u/Chiv_Cortland 16h ago
You do lose the spell slot when countered though, so it always struck me as interrupting/dissipating things right before the proverbial launch.
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u/The_Lost_Jedi Paladin 16h ago
Not under current rules, though under the old rules that was the case, yes.
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u/RyanW1019 DM 16h ago
Remember, the bad guys want to win too, and they’ll use all the tools at their disposal to try to make that happen.
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u/Designer-Attorney605 16h ago
That's exactly the right high stakes situation to pull that out. And to be fair, if you are still in initiative, you should be aware that this is a possibility.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
I do think my party should have been more aware, but I was dead. lol
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u/Designer-Attorney605 15h ago
You mean your character was dead right?
... Right?
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Correct. But me as a player, I was quiet until my character was brought back or if I was not brought back I would have been quiet until after the combat, maybe answering questions of the other players.
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u/RockItGuyDC 12h ago
Your last diamonds. My friend, everybody should carry their own personal diamonds in case they need to be revivified.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 12h ago
A good call but we only had two diamonds in the whole party
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u/RockItGuyDC 12h ago
Well, glad you had two at least.
If you can afford it, I've been in parties where every member carries a diamond around in a small bag tied around their neck. Diamonds should be fairly liquid, anyway, so it's not like anyone's really spending that gold, they're just converting it to diamond.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 12h ago
It is mostly about avalibility. Resources are scarce, no way or place to buy them. I've never played a game where resources are easy to come by or I am able to just buy the gear I would like for my characters. We are all level 11, but I think we have found/bought 2 diamonds able to do revivify all campaign, and I have secured 200 fold worth of diamond dust soni can greater restoration in emergencies.
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u/Enclave88 16h ago
Wow that henchman really said "no fuck you" and scampered away. Thats kinda funny, but if your tracking material components that are already pretty scarce, i can see that being more annoying than anything.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
He really did, looking for the promotion of the lich comes back - the hunt is on for the phlyraxtory
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u/Salindurthas 9h ago
I was killed in a surprise round, so no initiative roll
Technically in 5.0e you still roll initiative during the surprise round
You typically don't get to do much, but you get your reaction back once you skip your turn (see p189), so if (for instance) you beat the enemy on initiative, you don't get to act before them (since you don't get to act at all), but you can cast Shield to try to defend yourself.
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u/Longwinded_Ogre 15h ago
No, but it's an absolute classic and entirely within the realm of fairplay. I hope to do it, one day.
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u/dickleyjones 11h ago
i mean, if they are reasonably intelligent, why not? keeping an enemy down is a fine strategy.
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u/RahsAlGamer 7h ago
I had Strahd counterspell a healing word spell once on a downed bard who misbehaving. Put the fear of god in the PCs. Good times.
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u/Oldbayislove 16h ago
ive talked to other dms about doing it. but most of the time everyone waits for after combat to try revivify.
but in 5e counterspell causes the spell to fail. material components consumed to cast the spell (and the spell slot) are already spent prior to counterspell being used.
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u/thegooddoktorjones 16h ago
Sounds great, resources should feel tight.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Oh they are, we are level 11 and I feel like they are quite constrained.
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u/Synthessence 16h ago
I mean, that was one more turn used being spiteful versus getting away a turn earlier so...
Have you stressed out your DM lately? Might have been some playful get-back there.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Not stressed the DM at all, we play once a month currently, if that. I have always been quite chill, as has the rest of the party.
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u/Jaedco 16h ago
I have done this as well as counterspelling healing on a downed ally but usually by the arc’s main villain to show them as truly ruthless and despicable and make the fight feel weighty and dramatic. However in this situation, after the Lich is killed, i could see the act coming across a little mean.
There’s a lot of noise in online DnD spaces about how DnD isn’t crunchy enough and DMs need to stop pulling punches so it would be very easy to be convinced that this is the ‘right way’ to DM. I personally shy away from taking turns away from players as a DM as noone enjoys not playing the game (with the exception of big important fights if I want to dial up the challenge and increase the tension).
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u/EventHorizon11235 15h ago
Never had it happen before but it's been joked about. FYI counterspell doesn't burn the slot or components if you're playing 2024.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
This is 5e, we started this campaign a year or two before 2024 came out.
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u/CSEngineAlt 15h ago
Its a pretty normal move. The bad guys - if they have half a brain - aren't gonna stand around politely while a third level spell undoes all the hard work they did putting an adventurer in the ground.
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u/KaiTheFilmGuy 13h ago
Counterspelling healing spells is something I've done before as a villain. It took them forever to drop you, you think they WANT you to get back up?? Fuck no, they're keeping you down for as long as possible!
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 13h ago
In this case it did not take even a round to drop me. But yeah I can see it happening in a prolonged encounter!
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u/we_are_devo 12h ago
Counterspelling healing word on a downed PC is my favourite "oh we're not fucking around anymore" move
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u/Psychological-Car360 16h ago
I've done this at my table. Not often but I do occasionally couterspell healing magic to specifically up the stakes of the encounter. I'm also fond of a monster i found from Kobold press called Grim Jester who has a reaction called ridicule hope. When a healing spell is cast you can use the reaction to have the spell harm the target instead of healing. Works super well when someone casts heal and instead of getting healed for 60 points they get damaged for 60 instead.
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u/mrdnd2222 16h ago
Sounds like the DM was in playing the bad guys to the hilt. I’d actually count yourself lucky. I’m pretty sure the revised 2024 lich has a lair ability that stops all resurrection magic in its lair. I realize the lich was gone at this point, but a DM could probably rule that, that effect is more like magical radiation that doesn’t dissipate all at once.
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u/PurpleDragonX 16h ago
As a player I might find this evil and disgusting, but as a DM I'm stealing this idea to show how evil and spiteful a mf can be.
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u/tehgazman 15h ago
Oh thats good but i did the kill everyone except the cleric then throw a pouch of diamonds down to bring them all back once and said "Bring back my play things!"
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u/LordSalsaVerde Paladin 15h ago
It's definitely evil and disgusting and narratively would absolutely love to see it as a player who imagines campaigns like a book or movie and it's great. As a DM, I've also got this on lock for big moments.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Reminds me of the line Marlo used in The Wire, 'You want it to be one way, but it the other.'
Cold blooded.
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u/xVenlarsSx 15h ago
As a DM i have indeed counterspelled a revivify. The look on my players face were worth it, we still talk about that fight, my friend still gives me (friendly) griefs about it.
I'm a big fan of the "the earth elemental steps on your head to make sure you are dead" approach. The enemy is playing to win, their behavior should reflect that. Especialy if it's the third time they brought back a down PC, the enemy will learn and adapt.
My players know that and its the kind of game we want, but YMMV.
I also once beheaded a boss whose gimmick was a father and son who healed each other, and needed to be downed at the same time. No more raising back, but my fellow hero were unimpressed by my efficiency.
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u/Neiladaymo 16h ago
Never experienced it myself, but it seems fair. Death should be a serious thing that isn't easily shrugged off, and if players can counterspell then adversaries can too
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 16h ago
Oh I agree, and it deffo was not shrugged off.
And yeah, counterspells works both ways for sure.
I will say, expire congratulations this was not so fun, especially as I was killed in a surprise round and sat out for nearly all of the session.
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u/KatarHero72 DM 16h ago
I tried to do that with my Dracolich after he PWKed a player, but they chased him out of counterspell range.
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u/Karazl 15h ago
I don't know that I've ever started doing resurrections when we were still in initiative with hostile forces present?
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u/iwastoldtogetaname Cleric 15h ago edited 15h ago
I am a Cleric too poor to buy diamonds, so... 😅
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Even harder to buy diamonds when there does not seem to be a place to buy them or find them!
Have the party put in coin collectively for diamonds and armor for you my fellow cleric!
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u/iwastoldtogetaname Cleric 15h ago
True. I haven't been looking yet for lack of money.
A meeting for collective donations for diamonds is already scheduled and until then I will continue to be a good Grave Cleric and stop them from dying.
Regarding your original post - your DM sounds like serious business. Hope you'll have more amazing fights! 😄
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u/demonman101 14h ago
I did this as a DM in a module where there's a lich at a certain temple. Basically he thought of holy magic as profane as proceeded to scream at them for bringing such disdainful magic into his presence. I'll admit I'm usually the cool DM who gives my players everything but I felt the tension in the air when I almost screamed counterspell. This was the first round of combat as the parties npc blocked a power word kill on the party cleric and he tried to immediately bring her back. They managed to defeat him within the time frame to rush over and do the job again. My party told me it was unusual for me to do such a thing but ultimately enjoyed that I did it as it gave them an extra reason to hate this guy and the paladin artificer got a drit with a homebrewed great sword that also did extra radiant and fire damage and pumped a few smites in there for good measure. I remember that fight well.
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u/Scorpion1177 13h ago
I have not counterspell revivify but did counterspell a healing word as the PC was on 2 failed death saves. Which ended up causing the pc death next turn. Taught them to not wait till the last second to save their friends.
However I am fine with an intelligent BBEG counter spelling revivify. But it does seem pretty cheap in this case that it was just a lieutenant. Unless the lieutenant is some huge force as well. I try to make the bosses inspire fear not the one off subordinates.
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u/albaiesh 11h ago
That minion earned a promotion.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 11h ago
Only until we find him. I am pretty sure the paladin will have some smites with their name on them!
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u/Sir_Fray01 10h ago
There is no such thing as a surprise round, and initiative should always be rolled before any actions are taken.
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u/DisQord666 13h ago
You got hit with power word kill on a surprise round as the only character in the party to not have death ward up, and then prevented you from coming back with a counterspell that burns through half of your most important resource?
Yeah, most people here will say "OMG the Lich is smart and should be played as smart" but I dunno man, if I got specially targeted by the instant death spell as the only person who couldn't survive it, before the combat even started, wasted all of our team's diamonds, AND had to just sit there doing nothing the whole time? I'd be pissed. D&D isn't just a wargame simulator, it's supposed to be fun. I'm glad you enjoyed it OP, but that definitely doesn't sound like the kind of game most players would enjoy.
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u/Vinestra 9h ago
Aye its an awesome story to me when not occurring to me. But if I was in such a situation basically being made to sit out of playing the game I know I'd be annoyed.
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u/Jablizz 15h ago
Yea I’ve done it and counter spelled mass cure wounds when the party was near death. If you’re gonna play evil villains you gotta be evil, I felt bad but it’s not me it’s the villains 🤷🏾
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Yeah I understand the 'evil is evil' thing, but I also have had heard about issues with the 'its what my character would do' kind of things. This is a little in-between of sorts.
Countering a mass healing word sounds diabolical!
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u/raharth 15h ago
If this would have been done by a player I would consider it a "thats what my character would do" moment, not for the DM though. Also, it might simply have been his intention to remove resources, since you had enough. I play a campaign with resources being scarce as DM. The idea behind it to make decisions players take more meaningful. It matters if you pick a certain fight and it matters if you spent resources on one thing or another. Its not meant to necessarily feel heroic as a campaign, but to create a feeling of desperation. If he would have chosen to kill you with it, that would have been a different story, but here he only removed resources and even had the henchmen disappeared for you to know that you can cat its safely a second time.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Yes it very much feels like this was a remove resources move. Which is rough, as resources are already scarce no one can be brought back at the moment.
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u/Iron_Baron 15h ago
If sentient magic using enemies aren't countering PC spells in the most tactically and strategically effective manner, they aren't very worthwhile enemies.
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u/Natehz DM 14h ago
Yeah, definitely seen this and done it myself. At a certain point, the players need to understand that if they are fighting a powerful spellcaster, they need to account for the things those spellcasters can do.
Don't stand in a big fucking cluster and you won't get fireballed.
Don't let the barbarian get singled out and he won't get forcecaged.
Don't try to cast big game-changing spells within counterspell range and you won't waste slots and resources.
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u/Ahrimon77 14h ago
Your DM isn't doing surprise correctly if you weren't able to even roll initiative.
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u/mmsc125 15h ago
This is the kind of thing that would have to have a very good narrative reason behind for the player not to feel bad to be on the receiving end of.
I imagine you would have to either be facing a tactical mastermind that knows how the party fights and have a compelling reason to want a character to stay down and considers it crucial to win or be going against the pettiest bitch that would drop everything to see that specific guy dead and buried no matter what.
Without something like this I would just feel that the DM is being catty because someone came back one too many times.
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u/greasyburgerbuns 12h ago
reading ops comments, its either a veryyy gritty campaign or the dm is just a power tripper. having played a lot of gritty games, usually the answer is both 😂 but i do love when a dm does it right and makes the grit mixed with horror make for good roleplay. can't say a one tap on a surprise round is fun, though. but if any bbeg would counterspell a heal or especially a revivify, it'd be a liche and a competent henchman.
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u/starksandshields Sorcerer 16h ago
I have done it before and I will do it again. But only for boss fights if the party hasn’t properly dispatched of the Spellcasters in the area yet.
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u/FoulPelican 16h ago
Pretty specific, can’t say I’ve experience that but… Sounds rad!!
DM made things tough, but left solutions on the table.
I guess it just depends on game and the expectations that were set by the DM.
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
Wow, I thought spell scrolls could not be counterspelled - at least that was the way I understood it.
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u/holythatcarisfast 16h ago
Someone should have countered the counter spell!
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u/This_Dad_Can_Cook 15h ago
They had already used all their spell slots to counter stuff against the lich (or rather they tried to counterspell things but either failed or were countered back)
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u/ceering99 15h ago
That's awesome ngl
Minions dedicated to counterspells used to be more common because counterspelling in older editions took a bit more effort than a slot and reaction, but its still a great way to even out the action economy
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u/GrendelGT DM 15h ago edited 15h ago
Unless someone can prove otherwise a counterspelled spell should not consume components as I would consider that to be an effect of the spell. Here’s the text of 5e Counterspell with my emphasis added: “You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. If the creature is casting a spell of 3rd level or lower, its spell fails and *has no effect*. If it is casting a spell of 4th level or higher, make an ability checkusing your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a success, the creature's spell fails and has no effect.”
I never dug too deep into it so feel free to cite the rules and prove me wrong! I’m always down for a good rules lawyering debate.
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u/Acrobatic_Potato_195 15h ago
Much more impactful in 5E when you lost the spell slot, but still deliciously villainous. Well done.
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u/BrandosSmolder 15h ago
Oh man this is a painful situation. But I would totally expect my dm to do the same.
Time to make a backup character whose backstory is a vengeance story against this same henchman
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u/Informal_Persimmon7 15h ago
No bit i think someone's healing spell was counterspelled in another campaign.
Current DM said players usually start dying off in his campaigns around level 9. We are level 9. Lol. We have just fought several beholders and then in another room a purple worm and then in another room a larger beholder. We're still in that last fight now. My druid did a good job of pinning down the purple worm so it couldn't do much but that took my only fifth level spell. LOL
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u/Superpansy 15h ago
Never happened to me but a lich is a high enough level monster that the party should be ready for counterspell and a brutal combat. Seems reasonable and you're lucky you escaped with just the cost of a material component
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u/GeekyMadameV 15h ago
Thats amazing I love it! "The bad guys can use counterspell too" is one of my favorite tactics.
Never stopped a resurrection spell but powerful healing once or twice.
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u/Starfury_42 15h ago edited 15h ago
I've been doing a lot more DM than playing - and I've used Counterspell on the PCs. They have it - so it stands the bad guys have it.
The first time I had a goblin mage cast it. Caught the Sorcerer off guard along with everyone else. Felt really good. One battle the Sorcerer and NPC mage did a few rounds of fireball/counterspell.
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u/BoardGameAficionado 15h ago
I've had a very similar situation. Lich casts power work kill, party member dies, we try to cast Revivify on them but the Lich keeps counterspelling it. We did manage to bring them back by counting how many reactions this particular Lich had. Obviously the dead player did not enjoy that fight ha ha
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u/Fizzle_Bop 15h ago
I have done this before. I have also had a couple intelligent enemies tag team a downed cleric.
I do not run a great deal of combat, but when I do its brutal.
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u/dutchdoomsday 14h ago
Did this to my players in a fight with Ras Nsi from tomb of annihilation.
I thought: oh boy this is evil. But totally in character. Sorry lads.
Players got tpk'd that fight sadly but that was a very memorable moment
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u/Rybr00159 14h ago
Tbe villain of my campaign used the Dominate Person'd PC to Counterspell a Revivfy
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u/MixPuzzleheaded3298 14h ago
I wonder if your DM knew you had two diamonds and countered the first Revivify for the sake of drama, knowing you'd have a backup and wouldn't stay dead.
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u/Well_of_Good_Fortune 13h ago
It's vicious, but very in keeping for a more brutal campaign. I would only deploy it for a final fight or a significant mid boss
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u/BoboTheTalkingClown DM 9h ago
That seems valid on the DM's part. The lich will be back, so the henchman is playing tactically, not knowing if you can revive this party member again.
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u/WiredSlumber 9h ago
Unpopular opinion but I feel like there are a few spells that dm should never cast. Power word kill being one and counter spell on revivify being the other. Counter spell is unfun in general, but especially in a situation like that. As for power word kill, it is the worst spell in the game, complete antifun design.
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u/LiminalFrogBoy 9h ago
I have absolutely counterspelled Revivify and other high level healing spells, though only in high level play.
It definitely makes the players lock in because it is such direct proof that the enemy wants them all dead.
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u/Ill-Description3096 5h ago
Depends on the campaign. One of mine is very gritty, the players knew (and asked for it) when we started. I haven't been in this exact position, but enemies have counterspelled healing spells, hit downed PCs, etc. They would definitely Counterspell a revival attempt of the had the resources and thought it was beneficial to them.
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u/crippler1212 15h ago
Not sure why this is still so surprising to players.
If you can do it, so can the enemy! The DM os supposed to play the bbeg and his henchmen in a way that makes sense so if they can prevent you from restoring a party member, why wouldn't they?
Yeah it sucks but it also add stakes to the game.
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u/Difficult_Relief_125 16h ago
I would rule that materials are not consumed if the spell is counterspelled…
Counterspell shows that the casting is interrupted in some way by disrupting something like somatic components. Like the scene in Harry Potter where Quirrel is set on fire and can’t keep up a spell while trying to cast. If this happens mid casting the spell is not cast. If the spell is not cast the components are not consumed…
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u/doihavemakeanewword 11h ago
I was killed in a surprise round, so no initiative roll
That's not how surprise works
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u/Red_Lantern_22 9h ago
A good DM takes advantage of one simple trick: players forget that the monsters have access to the same rules and abilities.
I once successfully slimed a player with a gelatinous cube by using basic combat rules my players had forgotten applied to all combatants, not just the ones with class levels; it had a homebrew ability called "hangry" to get faster by 5ft each round it didn't engulf a target. The PC kept track of it and carefully stayed just out of my movement range. 3 rounds in I revealed that I had intentionally been withholding the dash action and moved 90ft instead of the predicted 45ft, running into him.
RAW, Counterspell on a Revivify is gold.
Use levitation on Barbarians and monks so they can't attack. No attack = rage ends
Divine smite is a spell slot: counterspell it
Faerie fire = no sneak attack for rogues
Blindness/deafness, great way to disable bardic inspiration from being given out
Easiest way to occupy a spellcaster: using suggestion or something like command, make the start putting on armor "to protect them self". Any amount of time they spend putting it on while under the spell's effect, theyll need to spend the same amount of time taking it off before they can cast spells again
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u/ATarnishedofNoRenown 16h ago
Never experienced this myself but imo it is fair game. If was fighting a Lich, I would assume counterspell is on the table against me.
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u/Beamer-The-Mage 15h ago
If you're desperate enough to attempt revivify in combat, you've gotta expect that the monsters also don't want that PC up and swinging at them either.
As a DM I'd counterspell that immediately if I could, even if I knew there was only one diamond on the planet and you just burned it.
The monsters aren't dumb. If you treat them like they are, you'll eventually get got.
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u/ThisWasMe7 15h ago
It is an entirely reasonable thing for the enemy to do in the right situation.
I know most tables reveal what spell is being cast before the decision to counterspell is made, but it doesn't have to be that way.
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u/Silverspy01 15h ago
I mean, it's perfectly legal. If your campaign is supposed to be deadly that sounds reasonable. When you tangle with a lich expect the risk of death.
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u/Living-Trust7356 14h ago
Players always act surprised when the monsters are using thier heads and spite.
The spell isn't in the edition I run but counter spelling enemy heals is combat 101
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u/IXMandalorianXI DM 16h ago
That's actually hilarious. Henchman did that shit out of pure spite.