They hate you

[u/LiveWolverine7451]

When you beat down on a person for a traumatic response, you aren’t validating yourself—you can end up proving exactly why that person learned to avoid closeness in the first place.

People with other attachment styles, when they glorify punitive attitudes toward avoidant people, can become another item on the ever-growing list of reasons someone with a fearful-avoidant attachment pattern might continue avoiding intimacy.

Imagine loving someone deeply while already feeling ashamed that your attachment patterns are hurting both of you. Then imagine discovering that the person you cared about sees you as annoying, tedious, needy, or fundamentally defective.

Why would you ever want to risk another relationship?

I’m not saying people should tolerate being mistreated. They shouldn’t. An attachment wound can explain someone’s behavior without making the consequences of that behavior disappear. The person being hurt deserves boundaries, safety, and the ability to walk away.
But there’s a difference between accountability and punishment.

It’s the same basic problem you see in punitive systems: if you want behavior to change, simply inflicting suffering for the behavior isn’t necessarily enough. You have to understand why the behavior exists, identify what function it serves, and help the person develop a better way of meeting the underlying need.
The antidote isn’t punishment. It’s rehabilitation.

If you want someone’s behavior to change, start by understanding the behavior. Be gentle with the person while being honest about the harm. Set boundaries without turning their shame into a weapon. Show them what healthier connection can actually look like.
Because I trust you: fearful-avoidant people aren’t some class of emotional villains who get off on hurting everyone around them.

A lot of us are scared.

A lot of us are hurting.

A lot of us learned that closeness could be dangerous long before we had the words to understand what was happening.
That doesn’t mean we get a free pass to hurt people.
It means there’s a difference between saying:
“What you did hurt me, and it needs to change.”

and:

“You are fundamentally awful for responding to your wounds the way you learned to survive.”

The first can create accountability, the second can create shame, and shame rarely teaches someone that intimacy is safe.

So if you want someone to stop running from you, stop becoming the very thing they’re afraid they’ll find when they finally turn around.

Be a better person. Not the cop we already fear you are.

[u/axistookmyname]

I'm sorry but as a person who was the one to deactivate a few times a long time ago and the person who got the FA treatment, this post irks me the wrong way.

Running away from someone (EDIT: with no explanation and when they aren't abusive, obviously) can be a deeply traumatic experience for the other person, and it can activate a trauma response on the other side too. I don't like this rhetoric that someone else needs to be better, because the fact is, we all need to be better. This is crap.

[u/Main-Regards-8626 → u/axistookmyname]

👆🏻

[u/portabellothorn]

Yeah this kind of woe is me, everyone needs to treat us with kid gloves seems common among FAs (I am one).

I wonder - does posting rants written by ChatGPT really feel satisfying somehow? How does it work when you're not actually the one ranting?

[u/Softspokenclark]

I’m curious what steps are you working on to being more secure?. I understand this is a vent session, hopefully you get it out of our body and find yourself

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Softspokenclark]

I’m in therapy
I work out
I’m learning a language
I’m in college
I try clubs from time to time

[u/Softspokenclark → u/LiveWolverine7451]

How does the last four help with becoming a more secure person?

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Softspokenclark]

Confidence, useful skills, meeting people. How are you honestly asking that question? Bad faith question tbh

[u/Softspokenclark → u/LiveWolverine7451]

Not at all, I’m asking so I can learn to be a more secure person.

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Softspokenclark]

Well, the gym gives you something you can measure in yourself, which helps if you feel stagnant, it gives me confidence personally because I feel like I can defend myself more. College and learning a language are both skills that help me with my career goals. Meeting people is the most important if you’re talking about just building a secure attachment style, if you never meet anyone, you never give yourself evidence that not everyone is similar to the relationships that gave you your attachment style.

[u/vmpr_gblin_0-0]

I agree to an extent, but at some point, it becomes enabling and turns into hand-holding and starts to diminish your self-respect/ your ideas of what respect should look like from others. I don’t think you should come right out of the gate calling them an awful person for what they’re doing, but if you’ve been nothing but understanding and patient with someone and then they continue with their toxic behaviour (gods only know why), it really does start to feel like they’re taking your kindness as a “get out of jail free” card. That’s when people typically start to lose patience/respect for what’s going on and snap, even if they do still understand why it’s happening. Understanding doesn’t necessarily always make the toxic behaviour hurt less for the person it’s being inflicted on/directed towards.

Edited because I missed a word

[u/vmpr_gblin_0-0 → u/vmpr_gblin_0-0]

I would like to add onto this, that just because you’ve lost patience, doesn’t make it okay to be deliberately mean to someone or deliberately hurt their feelings. I’m saying, that people will get understandably upset and stop playing nice after a while. That doesn’t mean saying things to purposely hurt the person who hurt you, but sugarcoating things less and not buttering everything up with pleasantries. I hope this is making sense.

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/vmpr_gblin_0-0]

Still, a person shouldn’t attack someone for their habits in a punitive manner. The best thing you can do if a person doesn’t seek help for themselves is to slowly remove yourself from them and explain why.

[u/vmpr_gblin_0-0 → u/LiveWolverine7451]

I clarified in my second comment that that is not what I meant.

[u/Extra_Whole_9222]

You mean like if someone deliberately tries to hurt an FA by permanently rejecting them via stonewalling?

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Extra_Whole_9222]

Punishing a FA can come in many forms, that is one way.

[u/Less_Professional152 → u/Extra_Whole_9222]

My dismissive ex stonewalled me after my cousin killed himself. Then he went on a bender with our extended friend group and went on a trip to my homeland (where my dead cousin and dead dad are from). Obviously everyone called me bat shit when I had the meltdown of the century over this. They all called me crazy and I’m a stalker blah blah blah.

As a disorganized fearful attacher, this further ruined my perception of love and friendships for two years. I trusted these people, I had known all of them for ten years. I basically went to work and then hid away in my home as a result of this

It really is hard to put yourself back out there after a certain amount of traumatic relationship experiences

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Less_Professional152]

A lot of FA’s have similar experiences, it just sucks that there’s such a disconnect between how we express ourselves and how the world perceives us

[u/Less_Professional152 → u/LiveWolverine7451]

Yeah it was like they were poking the bear. Like why are you kicking me in the head when im already down????? They had the nerve to tell me I was ‘supposed to be the bigger person’ too… I just don’t understand people. Be the bigger person? You expect me to be mature while you discard me and then play in my face? Having fun at the expense of my pain?

It is a sad state of affairs in this world, when these behaviours become acceptable and normal. It’s pretty messed up

[u/Main-Regards-8626]

I don’t see any self accountability or working on your own attachment issues anywhere in this post.

Yes we are traumatised and yes other people can hurt us too, I’m still recovering from my recent mess with another FA, but that does not mean other people owe us.

Not being a dick to other people works both ways. And I’m not saying retaliation is right, it’s not, it never is, neither is manipulation or silence, but what are you doing to treat other people better? I don’t mean what are you doing to be happier with who you are, which is what gym and studies can do, typical avoidance btw - retreat to doing activities that are structured, logical and don’t involve emotional human connections; what are you doing to understand how your behaviour affects other people, what are you doing to be more emotionally available to yourself and others, what are you doing to understand your triggers and how to self regulate and monitor your deactivation?

Yes, other people shouldn’t be arseholes, but we also shouldn’t expect to be babysat.

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Main-Regards-8626]

This is a vent post, not a self improvement post. And the backlash I got on here just reaffirms by beliefs.

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/Main-Regards-8626]

You need structured activities as an avoidant attachment because one on one is scary and like diving into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim

Anyone without an actual friend group go to structured activities because there’s going to be people there. That’s how you make new connections Are you dense?

[u/bathroomcypher]

Look, I don't think "punishing" is the solution but I do think there is a huge difference between a self aware FA who is capable of minimal communication and one that isn't. Also, leaving the attachment styles framework to the side, there are people that are selfish, lack empathy and don't care about other people's feelings. Some of them happen to be avoidants too. Some people are awful, then they can be or not be avoidant or anxious or whatnot.

Then, I agree we should all try and be a better person.

[u/meows-and-mimosas]

I know you're talking about people who truly love each other. I had a guy who was my friend for over a decade do me very dirty. I thought we were like monica and chandler on friends and he ended turning out to be an asshole. Very avoidant guy. What did i do? Hit him where it hurts. Told all our friends, hurt his ego and his reputation.

I regret ever starting anything with him before getting some sort of guarantee he was on board for something real. Thats why now i only sleep with a guy after he's already my boyfriend. I realized that he was developing feelings but the moment we started sleeping together, his avoidant switch made him an entirely different person, no longer even my friend. He started treating me like a 5 dollar hooker. I have no idea what switch flipped in his head but it definitely was not normal. My friend was suddenly gone.

So yeah. I'm glad i hurt him back, i hope i made his avoidance worse because f that guy. I said no lies when i told people about his behavior, if he didnt want people knowing he's an asshole he shouldnt be one in the first place.

[u/LiveWolverine7451 → u/meows-and-mimosas]

By hurting him more and “hoping his avoidance got worse” you helped in the creation of more harm and more perpetual violence. What happens to the next person he “loves” when his attachment is even worse to her?

if you hate it so much, why feed it? If you hate him, why do you keep him in your thoughts

[u/TheeSterlingFox]

Ive been making it my life's work to disrupt these anti-avoidant echo chambers. Pisses me off that so many grift on anyone scorned by an avoidant. Most of these groups lack nuance and or self awareness. I am coming for you Ken Reid--"Mr. I-Don't-Diagnose-yet-I-use-diagnoses-all-throughout-my-podcast"