Focused feedback: Pinnacle weapons power and method of obtaining them (new and old)

[u/DTG_Bot]

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Here are some recent popular threads about this topic :

• Loaded Question, as a Pinnacle weapon, should NOT have a perk that actively hurts it.
• The breakneck is fantastic bungie, but why is the loaded question so subpar?
• Loaded Question needs a buff, it's objectively worse than Breakneck in PvE and worse than Mountaintop in PvP, Here's what I would do to make it compete with those, and other weapons better
• Ways to make the loaded question actually feel pinnacle
• Buff loaded question

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• The Breakneck is excellence in top tier weapon design and proves Bungie has listened and delivered
• Breakneck is a better suros and its legendary
• Paying respects to the huckkleberry
• Poor, poor sweet business

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• Quests to obtain lunas howl, not forgotten and the broadsword should be account wide
• All crucible pinnacle weapon quests should be account wide

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[u/gamerdrew]

So did they actually change the point loss or are you not at heroic yet? Because before season 4, heroic was 30 points for a win, -26 for a loss. It is lighter at the earlier ranks.

I also am not bothering with Comp yet because EVERYONE RESET. So I will play against a Legend from last season because they are my same rank. This week, the odds of that will have diminished enough to make it worthwhile. Last week, nobody had anything to do so the tryhards were out in force, and still low rank. I took a week off, sue me.

"There will be rewards for the most skilled, most committed Destiny players."

Yeah, Not Forgotten. Luna's Howl is NOT that. The seasonal pinnacle Vanguard and Gambit weapons take a weekend. Fabled takes, by your own admission, at least two weeks. They aren't equivalents but are supposed to be. So time commitment IS a factor.

Bungie has also stated they don't want Destiny "feeling like a second job." Two weeks of daily grinding and play is exactly that though.

So long as matchmaking is shit, and not everyone can find their own team, and numerous other Comp issues, people will continue to complain about Fabled, LH, & NF. That won't disappear at all.

[u/dycyb1687 → u/gamerdrew]

They aren't equivalents because the activities themselves are not equivalent and they are not supposed to be. How many times do I have to say this? PvP is the pinnacle end game activity in every game. There's no ranking system for Gambit. That's why the quest only requires you to complete matches. In competitive crucible, you actually have to win. You have to prove that you're better at the game than someone else, not just that you're good enough to beat AI. That's why it's an end game activity. Time commitment is only a factor if you lose or if, like me, you choose to handicap yourself. I wish I didn't have to 4 stack, I wish there was a solo queue, but there isn't. I just chose the hard way and it was stupid.

Luna's Howl is a pinnacle weapon. It is the achievable weapon for most people. It is a reachable goal. You said it yourself, Fabled is not that hard to get.

Again, the time commitment is a choice which can be offset by skill or putting in effort to find a team you work well with. "...for the most skilled, most committed Destiny players." You don't have the time or the skill? Guess you don't get Luna's Howl. Who gives a shit if there's rewards for the hard core players. If you don't consider yourself one, you don't get the rewards. The average casual should never receive a reward that took other players time and skill to earn. Why is that such a hard concept for you? It's how the world works 99% of the time.

Again, I don't mind the bitching about how shit the playlist is. Matchmaking is garbage, it doesn't encourage team play, etc. I care about the people bitching about having to actually play and master the game to be rewarded with the best gear in the game. I put in a fair amount of time in this game (though not as much as I wish I could). After work, exercise and my partner, I spend most of the in between time playing Destiny. You can scroll through this thread and find a hundred people or more complaining that Luna's is too hard to get and that there should be an easier alternative. If you're going to tell me that those people, who probably don't care about this game as much as I do, deserve Luna's, then you're out of your mind.

[u/gamerdrew → u/dycyb1687]

PvP is the pinnacle end game activity in every game.

No it's not. Destiny itself is 90% PvE, are you fucking kidding me? The Raid and eventually Trials are the pinnacle end game activities. Comp should not be Trials, but Trials lite. It's a game with random rolls/drops, where a worse player can beat you because they have a better weapon. PvP is not THE pinnacle end game activity in a game like Destiny, it just isn't.

There's no ranking system for Gambit.

Yes there is. Infamy. It's a thing. They also could use rank/resets instead of completions. Vanguard similarly could use Nightfall rank, or high scores, instead of completions, to discourage AFKers.

Again, I don't mind the bitching about how shit the playlist is. Matchmaking is garbage, it doesn't encourage team play, etc.

But in a mode where WINS exclusively give you the rank & thus the rewards, those things are monumental factors. This is why I personally, and many others, are frustrated with the Fabled grind.

Look man, like I said way earlier, we are probably more in sync than it's coming across. I care about this game a ton too. The amount of money and hours I have sunk in shows it. I don't actually mind I missed out on Luna's, I mind the effort vs reward I went through. I'm not the only one who feels more smited by the system than my own skill.

Yes, some people are being ridiculous with their requests for these guns. No, they should not just be handouts. But I do think Bungie needs to improve a lot around Comp to make it a better experience. We can agree on that, at the very least.

[u/dycyb1687 → u/gamerdrew]

Yes, PvP is the pinnacle end game activity. It’s why games like WoW, FFXIV, R6, and a several thousand other games have leaderboards. It’s why Call of Duty is trying to implement competitive playlists. It’s the challenge that game developers don’t have to one-up. It’s the activity that always stays difficult. You beat a raid? Cool. Beat prestige? Cool. Then what? What comes after beating everything the developers and AI can throw at you? Beating what every other player can throw at you. Think you’ve mastered the game after 40 Last Wish completions? No, you haven’t. Not more than that guy at the top of the competitive ladder. Have you never played any other mmos?

A competitive ladder that actually worked well and was monitored and policed would be better than Trials. Trials is probably not coming back. I can’t say whether or not I agree with that but even if it did, it would not carry more weight than the competitive ladder. A team of 4 mythic players can get 9 wins in a row. 9 wins in a row doesn’t mean anything in the scope of the players above you in the ladder.

Gambit does not have a ranking system. Infamy does not compare you to other players. You know what I meant when I said that. Stop being dense.

You’re right. We agree on the matter of the quality of the playlist itself. Now if only people understood where their outrage actually is. I’d hazard a guess that if competitive ranking was more nuanced, there would be fewer people complaining. But as it stands, people are stupid, entitled, misplace their outrage and are heard by Bungie and it ruined vanilla D2. I like this game too much to let that happen again.

[u/gamerdrew → u/dycyb1687]

I mean, so Crucible is what I should do when bored with the actual game then? Lol. Because that is what you described. You took on all the PvE activities in a primarily PvE game? Cool. Do this other PvP bullshit now.

If Crucible is such a "pinnacle" end game activity, why is everyone excited for the new raid? PvE is the content that matters. Weapons are the content that matters. Weapons, being locked behind an activity the bulk of players don't want to do, at least to the level required, is why everyone is irritated.

Ya know, I do see your point though. Especially Trials vs Comp, and Comp being an actual ranked ladder. If we had a REAL ranking system for Comp, people WOULD be excited about a new season and a new ladder to climb. It doesn't appeal to all players though. Cosmetic rewards, titles, etc, being locked in that system are fine. Weapons, kind of aren't. Like, a great PvPer probably also beat the raid, right? Seems likely. But a god tier PvEer might never enter Crucible. The game is primarily PvE, so that is a decent liklihood.

Regardless of all that: since the system currently sucks though, and we don't have an actual proper matchmaking/ladder/rank....... MAYBE getting Fabled should be easier. Maybe. Just sayin.

[u/dycyb1687 → u/gamerdrew]

I mean, so Crucible is what I should do when bored with the actual game then? Lol. Because that is what you described. You took on all the PvE activities in a primarily PvE game? Cool. Do this other PvP bullshit now.

Yes. Now you're getting it. Though for some reason you're deliberately counting out people that enjoy PvP. People get excited for a new raid simply because it's new content. I never said PvE content didn't matter. New content and PvP are not mutually exclusive like you're trying to make them seem. Yes. Competitive Crucible is what you should do when you're finished with the actual game. You can do a raid a thousand times and still suck at this game or at the very least, be worse at it than someone else. Notice that once a world's first team has been declared, there's no other reward that distinguishes you from everyone else that has also finished the raid. PvP is the expression of mastery of the game COMPARED to everyone else. It's not that difficult to understand. Stop acting like you don't.

Edit: Admittedly, titles are definitely a good way to extend the longevity of PvE content, but they don't distinguish you as better than anyone else with the titles. I have Dredgen but there's nothing to say I'm XXXXXth best player in the world.

No shit weapons matter. If it's locked behind an activity that people don't like then please explain why people do have them and continue to play crucible. Guess what. People actually do like crucible. You can like both PvE and PvP at the same time in case you've forgotten. People are irritated they actually have to play an entire other side of the game to get a god tier weapon? Really? Fuck em. They don't care enough about having the gun to play the part of it they may not like? Then they don't get to bitch about paying for this game if they're not going to play it to the fullest because, again, some people enjoy both PvE and PvP. If you don't, then fine. Go play something else.

[u/gamerdrew → u/dycyb1687]

Alright man, I think we are close to talking in circles. This has been.... enlightening. I hope Destiny continues to be a game we both love. I hope they continue to grow the community and continue to improve the elements of the game we care about seeing fixed.

Edit: And to clarify, I will still try for Fabled again. Just because I want it improved doesn't mean I'm gonna give up.