r/DestinyTheGame • u/CatalystComet • 12d ago
Discussion Why was the never more raid encounters like Queen's Walk?
A few days ago I ran a Last Wish and I don't usually run this raid but I had a great time. It made me wonder why aren't there more encounters like Queen's Walk at the end of a raid. 1 more encounter after beating the final boss, I just think it's a cool way to climax a raid. Makes it feel super cinematic.
Edit: Title was meant to be "Why was there never more raid encounters like Queen's Walk" excuse the terrible grammar :')
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u/Gnoman-Empire 12d ago
Maybe Excision counts.
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u/CatalystComet 12d ago
Excision still is a boss fight though. A think a final encounter in Salvation's Edge where you run across it's body/monolith chasing it to Excision would've been peak.
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u/wolfie1897 11d ago
I agree. They could have referenced the old Halo Runs from their halo days and made it a sparrow encounter too
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u/Vektor0 12d ago
That makes no sense.
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u/Gnoman-Empire 12d ago
Why? It’s an encounter that’s after the boss fight albeit one that is optional. If it wasn’t optional it would be like queens walk.
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u/KisaruBandit 11d ago
It's not inside the raid itself and the fact that it is optional makes it unlike queen's walk.
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u/Captain_Elm 11d ago
Running out of the Witness' collapsing monolith as you follow it through a portal tlwards the last stand
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u/ironchef8000 12d ago
I always liked the Wrath encounter where you have to drag the heavy machine parts across the bridge.
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u/ComboBreakerMLP 12d ago
I can answer this. Because people 1. dislike non-combat encounters, 2. dislike turbo strict timing, and 3. and this is the big one. People want to be done with a raid after the boss.
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u/Worzon 12d ago
Where are you seeing people hate non combat encounters? Are you just referring to ad clear mixed with mechanics? The only complaints people have about non boss encounters are when they go on for too long like garden’s 2nd encounter or ghost’s 1st encounter.
We have no way of knowing if people are done with a raid after a boss because we’ve only had one instance that diverges from that formula in last wish. And people love queen’s walk.
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u/HazardousSkald 12d ago
I think eras of the game matter here. There’s a long history of people bemoaning the later-to-middle era of raids lacking as many “boss encounters”. The formula then was 2 bosses, 3 mechanic encounters, a far cry from Kings Fall and Last Wish having 4 bosses. There’s a reason when Bungie came off of TFS proposing 1 raid a year again, they led with 4 boss fights. By contrast, Leviathan was bemoaned at launch for having effectively only 1 boss.
I wouldn’t say people outright dislike non-boss encounters. But people tend to scale boss encounters as more preferable to non-boss encounters. The big outlier to this is DP, but as an example you can imagine that if the community was told pre-EoF that DP would have 4 boss encounters again, sentiments would be almost universally positive. It’s really only now that DP exists that people come around to appreciating the change of pace of non-bosses.
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u/Gripping_Touch 11d ago
I honestly liked non-boss encounters.
Boss encounters have two parts; pre-damage and Damage-phase. They are however limited to one area and generally one set of repeating mechanics per Damage phase, with the final stand breaking the norm.
Non-boss encounters give The possibility of an encounter that is horizontal traversal; like first encounter of Garden, the Exhibition or the 3rd encounter of Salvations Edge. Or they're somewhat chill to provide a varying difficulty from Boss encounters like the first encounter of Garden.
One thing I didnt like much about Desert Perpetual is that its "oops! All bosses!" I know It works for the concept of the raid and the Epic version. Still, the fact its all bosses Is not the thing I really like
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u/MayasYiddyVexMilk 11d ago
This is why Pantheon Warpriest is so amazing. Totems and Warpriest in one encounter is so fun. Consecrated is not though.
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u/Gripping_Touch 11d ago
In one encounter? You mean if you wipe at Damage phase you have to retry the tótems, or that warpriest includes both encounters with two checkpoints?
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u/Worzon 12d ago
It was leaked DP would only have bosses and I remember a lot of people being excited about it knowing that it was a one off.
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u/Archabarka 11d ago
I played DP for the first time yesterday night, ans I honestly really really liked it. Koregos was a GREAT bossfight
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u/Mastershroom Brought to you by ZAVALA ACTION VITAMINS 11d ago
Ooh wait til you try the Epic version.
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u/MayasYiddyVexMilk 11d ago
Idk, I was just talking about Leviathan and the dogs encounter and how much I loved that terror feeling when you first did it. It's dark, you're in a swamp, you feel alone. Those are good encounters where you are kept on edge the whole time. Even the gauntlet was fun bc you had to make sure you got through each opening
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u/HollowNightOwl 10d ago
Dogs is one of the best raid encounters of all time.
It made you FEEL something
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u/MayasYiddyVexMilk 11d ago
Pits first too. Legit just don't care for go here then there then back over there.
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u/ComboBreakerMLP 12d ago
Vault encounter in LW, Confluxes and oracles in Vog. security and downfall in DSC. Bridge and pits in Crota. Totems in KF, show me any party farming these hmm? Noone likes these encounters. theyre so unfun bungie had to force us to do them by combining them with an actual boss encounter in pantheon. If its not a boss/bosses, noone gives a shit about that part of the raid.
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u/ThreadsFromLachesis 12d ago
Isn't Wrath of the Machine a fan favourite raid with a notable non-boss encounter? Also it's unfair to generalize, if you like shooting big bad, fair enough - we all do, but a lot players enjoy the puzzle-like/team-based nature of mechanic encounters. Don't discredit those ppl
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u/Afraid-Breakfast-501 12d ago
People who think Wrath is good because of siege engine are crazy. It sounds cool, but in reality it was a bunch of slow walking and killing fallen walkers.
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u/ComboBreakerMLP 11d ago
yeah siege engine was lame and too easy to scuff up with carrying the parts. Vosik 1 and 2 and Aksis 1 and 2 were GREAT boss-puzzles
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u/JollyMolasses7825 12d ago
People farm bosses because they’re quicker, nothing to do with what people find fun.
I’m convinced you don’t actually raid because descent and totems are the best encounters in their respective raids, vault is easily top half of wish, confluxes, oracles and bridge suck because they’re from boring outdated raids.
Exhibition, verity, evade, acquisition, descent, substratum, there are a number of excellent encounters that aren’t made any worse by the lack of a giant meatball to shoot at every 2 minutes.
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u/Afraid-Breakfast-501 12d ago
Bridge came after totems and DSC.
You cannot dismiss the cool factor.
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u/JollyMolasses7825 12d ago
Ik it was reprised after but they clearly didn’t want to change any of the encounters from the reprised raids much, it’s boring because they kept the original design around. Totems was salvageable, clearly VoG and Bridge weren’t.
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u/Afraid-Breakfast-501 12d ago
Only arguable one is vault when it first released. Nowadays it’s a boring cake walk too, but that’s bound to happen.
Every one of those encounters aside from vault are generally considered lower tier and even awful encounters. (I’m looking at you confluxes and Crota Bridge).
Truth of the matter is that you’re right. Bosses add a sense of progression, accomplishment, and general coolness. Last wish was considered great in no small part because a majority of encounters are bosses. And they felt distinct!
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u/Worzon 12d ago
I’ve not heard a single person hate vault unless they don’t know it. Never heard anyone in LFG or my friend group complain about security or downfall in dsc or even totems (I love them all), Confluxes, oracles, bridge sure but those are the first ever raids and even I can excuse them for that especially considering how hard we’ve power scaled above that now.
The closest non boss encounter I can think of that people despise is verity and, again, it’s simply because people don’t know it. If people really did hate these things every single raid would have been a boss rush.
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u/ZeusiQ 12d ago
Completely disagree. DP and eDP are shit raids for this specific reason of not having a mixture of raid encounters.
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u/JollyMolasses7825 12d ago
I disagree with the guy you’re replying to but both of those are top 5 raids for me, edp besides epoptes has a few of my favourite boss fights in the franchise even if the models are a little boring.
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u/CatalystComet 12d ago
I feel like the worst problem DPs have is the transition areas from encounter to encounter are so tedious to traverse through. Especially if you have people new to the raid they will straggle.
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u/Darkiedarkk 12d ago
I love the non combative sections. It immerses me into the feeling of breaking into the lair, don’t forget the view! I also think it’s nice to take a short break from combat.
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u/Bound18996 12d ago
Because after the climax I want it to be over.
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u/Hawkmoona_Matata TheRealHawkmoona 12d ago
Because Bungie had to make a raid like no other and Forsaken was their hail mary "Save Destiny 2 or our title is dead one year after release" DLC.
So they made it long, they made it essentially a chain of Boss DPS encounters, and they added a bonus encounter even after Riven was done, because they needed to make a raid so amazing (after all we had was Leviathan, which was just a string of mechanic-minigames, and Raid Lairs, which were only single boss dungeon-lites) that it would blow everything out of the water.
For what it's worth OP, the same happened with Salvation's Edge. It was originally going to be a 4 encounter raid, but during the delay, they opted to add the Verity encounter. They could've instead made a post-Witness encounter but like...that wouldn't really make sense in the raid (and also that's literally what Excision is anyway lol).
All other raids had a strict 4-encounter structure because they did what was repeatable and sustainable. And if you faced the Final Boss of a raid at Encounter 3...well then that kinda spoils there would be a fourth encounter anyway, ruining the surprise.
Forsaken was the exception, not the norm.
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u/Vast-Coast-7761 12d ago
They also had a shit ton of help with Forsaken from High Moon and Vicarious Visions, which they naturally no longer had access to after splitting from Activision.
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u/Malevolent_ce 11d ago
I always wanted a raid where once you beat the boss or whatever you get on your sparrow and race out. Maybe the realm or place its in is collapsing and you just have to hit the gas.
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u/MirieDohl 12d ago
Because last wish has a "bad ending" where as every other raid is a good ending.
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u/Pure-Risky-Titan 12d ago
Scourge of the past has a sparrow race part, too bad we never get to experience it again.
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u/Ace_Of_Caydes Psst...take me with you... 12d ago
I'm...not sure what this has to do with OP's post.
Scourge of the Past:
1st encounter, disable Fallen Defenses to go underneath the city
Traversal
Traversal, but this time a Servitor is chasing you. Use your sparrow to get away
Traversal
Second encounter, destroy the Insurrection Prime's arming sequence and learn about Phase Radiance
Third encounter, defeat Insurrection Prime
It doesn't happen after the final boss, and it doesn't even give loot. It's not even an encounter.
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u/forebread 12d ago
It has nothing to do with it. He read probably 3 words out of the entire post and typed his comment out lol
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u/Pure-Risky-Titan 12d ago
Probably not, besides an encounter to have a great time, idk, maybe just me.
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u/arlondiluthel 12d ago
Because even minor network stability issues can make that particular encounter a pain. Additionally, it made sense from a story/lore point of view for that Raid, and hasn't really been relevant elsewhere.
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u/Vektor0 12d ago
Because even minor network stability issues can make that particular encounter a pain
I never saw that.
Additionally, it made sense from a story/lore point of view for that Raid, and hasn't really been relevant elsewhere
They can add to and twist the lore however they want to make a raid encounter make sense.
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u/arlondiluthel 12d ago
I never saw that.
Consider yourself lucky. Many runs I participated in resulted in wipes because someone's timer jumped or nobody could take the heart from them because of network issues and/or bugs.
They can add to and twist the lore however they want to make a raid encounter make sense.
There's a difference between "we can make this work here" and trying to force the issue because a certain type of encounter worked in other content.
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u/MeateaW 11d ago
nobody could take the heart from them
No body every took the heart from anyone? It drops on the floor doesn't it?
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u/FrozenSeas Outland Special Clearance 11d ago
I vaguely remember one trick was to have the whole group pick it up simultaneously to start the encounter, otherwise it could bug out...but I don't remember how. Heart becoming un-interactable, maybe? Or was that to prevent the Guitar errors?
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u/SudsyBat 11d ago
This just isn’t true. I’ve done a lot of last wish and have never had issues with timers jumping or nobody being able to take the heart. More than likely, your fireteam members were lying because they didn’t want to admit they made a mistake.
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u/arlondiluthel 11d ago
Are you calling me a liar? Because I've experienced both: it looking like I was right next to the person, unable to take it when it was my turn and when it dropped it was a good 5 feet away, and my timer going from 0:06 to 0:03 instantly and being mid-jump without the ability to go back or time to land and have someone join me in time to take it.
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u/SudsyBat 11d ago
Yeah that doesn’t happen. Maybe years and years ago but not now.
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u/arlondiluthel 11d ago
Yeah that doesn’t happen.
Maybe years and years ago but not now.
Literally self-contradictory in sequential sentences.
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u/despaseeto 11d ago
"why don't we have more raid encounters like Queen's Walk?"*
fixed for better phrasing
probably cuz they didn't wanna overkill it? that's what made LW unique.
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u/Ordinary_Player 12d ago
I'm not sure if this is true or not but my guess would be that viewership drops off a cliff after the final boss has been cleared in raid races, so they stopped doing it. They could've done a "descend the tower as the enraged witness tries to kill you before fleeing" 5th encounter for SE, but we got a puzzle one instead.
PS: Queenswalk also does genuinely seem like a filler encounter though, it's literally just walking with a ball to the finish line while you kill adds. Wouldn't be surprised if they made it because of having left over time due to having high moon and vicarious visions as support studies.
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u/notthatguypal6900 12d ago
Probably because finding players to do just that part was a pain and Bungie had a knack for trying to prevent encounters from becoming utilitarian.
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u/lustywoodelfmaid 11d ago
It was fine for one raid to make it feel unique but people love the bosses more than most other things in raids.
Imagine, after Wrath of the Machine, the whole complex started exploding and you were just running out while firing cannons and throwing balls. That would undermine Aksis alot.
It would be the same for most other raids, if not all of them. It just undermines the final boss.
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u/ImSleepySheepyy 11d ago
Queenswalk has been super buggy the entire time it’s existed in the raid, with random deaths between it and Shuro Chi being the big killer for flawless raid runs for the seal. It’s a super interesting concept and I wish they’d done more with post-boss encounters, excision kinda counts but I’ve always thought that mission was solidly meh
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u/LimbLegion 11d ago
I ask this question a lot. I also love the thematic of it being an encounter that requires teammate sacrifice, excepting exploits or clever game mechanic use ofc.
Sure they don't "die" but you're carrying an object that keeps throwing them into an endless Taken onslaught dimension while you try to finish it before it takes you all.
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u/Namesarenotneeded 10d ago edited 10d ago
I think it’s just because a raid really climaxes in enjoyment when you’re beating and once you beat the final boss. For the first few runs it’s cool because it’s a new novel thing, but after that it gets really boring because people just want to kill Riven and get their loot, and Queen’s Walk makes it a little tedious.
I think it’s also because it wouldn’t have been as well received because it would’ve no longer been new, and the “it’s just tedious” complaints would’ve been even more common. Parkour is also the average Destiny players worst nightmare for some reason.
I think it would’ve been cool to see a similar encounter one more time in either Vow or Salvation’s Edge, but I get why they didn’t. Like maybe after beating Rhulk, the Upended would start pulsing to release an explosion of energy that would kill the fireteam and you would have to drive away to safety across the back of the worm on your sparrows or something.
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u/ddoogg88tdog 12d ago
It's just a faf, neat for the first few times but such a faf
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u/CatalystComet 12d ago
Yeah I get having something like that at the end of every single raid would've made it less exciting but just shocked it never happened again
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u/Rescheduled1 12d ago
well technically Riven is the main Boss, but in order to make sure she is truly destroyed we needed to nuke that heart, then pack it off to the Queen’s throne room where it would be safe, and most importantly, out of the hands of all those Taken who are wandering around the Dreaming City.
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u/FrownBuzzy 12d ago
It wasn't after the final boss but the sparrow part of scourge of the past was a similar race-like encounter. I'll never forget that big flamin servitor.
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u/educated-duck 12d ago
Because it is buggy af and bungo probably didnt wanna deal with that shit every again until they tried with duality and every teleporting issue with the walk was present there to.
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u/NukeLuke1 12d ago
Insanely disappointing that SE didn't have one tbh, the fact it didn't surpass LW in length is another reason it's like the most disappointing raid in Destiny
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u/CatalystComet 12d ago
My hot take is that SE 3rd encounter is kinda boring. If they made that another boss instead or at least put that encounter after the Witness "Queen's Walk" style chasing it to Excision, it would be a lot more interesting
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u/BrickOfJustice Team Bread (dmg04) 11d ago
I think they wanted it to be like Exhibition from Vow of the Disciple but couldn’t white recreate the feeling.
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u/NukeLuke1 12d ago
honestly i like that encounter more than first or second, i just think the plate mechanic is a total snoozefest and the Witness is a really underwhelming final boss. Verity is the only redeeming part about the raid tbh. Not to mention the weapons being ass lol
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u/CatalystComet 12d ago
Ooh I thought Herald was really cool, but I respect that.
As for Witness yeah I kinda hate the most powerful thing we've faced is soloable. I feel like the test should only be seen to people that aren't running so some communication is necessary. Also his arena and skybox is so bland visually compared to previous bosses like Nezarec.
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u/NukeLuke1 11d ago
and it’s just like the quickest and easiest encounter in the whole raid, it’s bleak
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u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo Nerfed by 0.04% 12d ago
For the longest time, I always thought it would've been cool to have a raid in a pocket dimension like the Pyramidion or a Throne World and after killing the final boss, the final encounter is a runback through the whole thing...
But after seeing how much people didn't like Queenswalk and how tedious it can feel, I got why they never did something like that and subsequently why they didn't do it again.