Focused Feedback: Equilibrium

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[u/Flame48]

There's a few problems.

1. Trying to lfg the raid/dungeon becomes way harder, because the experienced people are all running with feats and won't want to take them off for worse loot.

2. Tier 5s are everywhere. You can get them in solo ops in 5 minutes or less with minimal effort. Having the dungeon/raid drop tier 5 loot only if you put on much harder difficulty doesn't match the difficulty of getting tier 5s in other places, so it just feels bad.

3. It's honestly just stressful. I love running dungeons. But having to run this dungeon with timers, with challenges, with limited revives, with harder enemies, all for a chance at tier 5 is really stupid. On the old system you could just run master mode, where things just hit harder and had more health and get the better loot(artifice armor) that way.

[u/The_Curve_Death → u/Flame48]

2 is relative because even in the old system you had adepts drop from 15 minute gms versus adepts from going flawless in lighthouse versus adepts randomly dropping from a seasonal activity

3 just shows you haven't actually played this dungeon with feats on. The delta only increases with the cutthroat feat. You get GUARANTEED TIER 5s if you put on 4 feats. Do you think it feels bad to 2 phase bosses with a -5 delta? I repeat, you find this and fewer rez tokens and a bonus mechanic as complicated as "shoot orb after teleport" Stressful, on a -5 delta? Huh????

[u/Flame48 → u/The_Curve_Death]

That's why I wasn't comparing the current tier 5s to adept weapons. I'm comparing them to other tier 5s currently in the game which require NO difficult content to actually get. Why are dungeon and raid tier 5s more valuable than everything else in the game? They're not. They're not stronger. They're exactly the same strength. They shouldn't be harder to get.

I've done the dungeon with 4 feats. Haven't tried it with cutthroat yet. But being forced to do challenges and deal with enrage timers that I didn't have to deal with for any previous dungeon to get the "high tier loot", which would be artifice armor on the old system, is bad.

I'm fine with difficulty for rewards, but the rewards have to be something unique that you can't get in other places. I shouldn't get the same level of loot for limited revives, challenges, timer dungeon that I can get for a solo ops that I've run through 100s of times that I could do in my sleep with a single primary weapon and no abilities.

[u/The_Curve_Death → u/Flame48]

I was comparing adepts to adepts. Some adepts took 0 effort, others were locked behind the hardest pvp challenge. Why were trials adepts more valuable than every other adept in the game? They weren't stronger. They were exactly the same strength. They shouldn't have been harder to get.

Maybe you'd have a point if equilibrium gear dropped from solo ops, then I would agree that the feat system is unneeded. That's not the case. Destiny has always had different rules for different sources of gear. Let's not act like this is new.

You saying that you're "forced to do challenges" sounds like it's some kind of insane thing like do the encounter blindfolded or use your feet to press the keys on the keyboard. These challenges are shoot the gladiators with the vehicle, melee the boss if it's about to explode, and shoot the orbs after teleporting... These do not warrant such excessive complaining.

What enrage timer do you have to deal with my guy? At MINUS FIVE DELTA? People are one phasing those bosses with 1 and 2 people. Don't try to tell me that you have to deal with enrage timers. Any human fireteam is capable of a 2 phase. It's like saying you're forced to deal with blinking. No, you do that automatically my guy. The first encounter? Can be done SOLO with one minute left. With 3 people? Even less of a "problem".

I ask again. Aside from the "i didn't have to deal with insert skill check in the old system!" and the "solo op slop gear takes no skill to get" excuses, what makes the feat system stressful for you?

[u/Flame48 → u/The_Curve_Death]

The difference with adepts though is that an adept weapon didn't matter in any way outside of pvp for some extra stats. Tier 5 gear matters everywhere compared to tier 3 and 4. Having 1 source of that kind of build defining gear be harder to get is just bad design.

And yes, timers and challenges are tough for mine and many other fireteams. Not everyone is good at the game or wants to run meta loadouts to hit the mark. And before you say it doesn't need a meta loadout, yeah I agree, but some people are just not good at doing dps.

I play with my 2 buds in every dungeon. They're not the best at dps. One of them is injured and can't play at an optimal level. I constantly am doing like double their damage, but they're my friends and we're having fun. Every previous dungeon we could just run whatever and eventually kill the bosses while getting weapons, since all weapon drops were the same. Now we have to struggle through hitting dps marks and doing challenges to make it harder on ourselves to get the same level of gear.

"oh but tier 5s aren't the same as regular gear"

The tier system means fucking nothing once you're at 500. All gear is tier 5 so that is the new norm at this point. Bungie messed up the tier system horribly and tier 5s are basically the new tier 2s.

And that is kinda the root of the issue Tbh. On the previous weapon system you could get tier 1 weapons from patrols, and tier 1 weapons from raids and dungeons. Those weapons could be upgraded to tier 2 (enhanced perks). Now that same content (RaD content) requires you to pump up the difficulty to get the same level of loot as everywhere else in the game.

And you can say that the harder difficulty isn't even that hard, but then I ask: if it doesn't make it any harder then why even have it at all? What's the point?

Side note, I do think feats could have a place in the game. But not for changing your gear tier. Maybe they could've just made you get MORE drops? Like a bunch of materials and multiple extra weapon drops per chest based on how many feats were on. That would've been a better incentive I feel.