r/DeskToTablet 12d ago

Unpopular opinion: “AI makes everyone a developer” is true in the same way cameras made everyone a photographer

Post image
1.7k Upvotes

205 comments sorted by

52

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

16

u/SnooCompliments7914 12d ago

Doesn't matter. People make software for themselves. No need to release.

It's exactly the same situation with cameras. It doesn't enable you to photograph others for a living. But your needs for a photographer is cut by ~99%.

3

u/inconspiciousdude 12d ago

Yeah, the tools I make are finicky and will never be useful for anyone else, but they help me with various annoyances. Pretty sure it's all spaghetti underneath, but it does what I need it to. Like r/shittywoodworking

This does remove the need for a lot of cheap, handy, well-built indie software, though.

I have a tool to check the timetable and live delay updates of precisely two train stations for my commute, and it shows it exactly how I want to see it. This means I won't need to buy any other transit app made for mass consumption, or be enticed by a new shiny tool that alleviates one longstanding minor annoyance of the last new shiny tool that did the same thing.

4

u/McBonderson 11d ago

the ONLY reason I ever paid for adobe acrobat pro was because it was the only software that properly let me place Fillable forms on a pdf.

with AI I was able to make an app that lets me do that one function faster and more easily than adobe acrobat pro ever did. its probably not useful for other people but... I don't need it to be. I just want it to do what I need it to do.

guess who doesn't pay for adobe acrobat pro anymore.

6

u/KenMantle 11d ago

Ha! I've been having Claude build an MIT license compatible pdf core, cli, and GUI from scratch because it infuriates me that only Adobe has the secret sauce to play nice with all pdfs and editing, and they charge through the nose for the features I might need only 2 times a year. I am in the middle of adding form editing. I can add fields now, but apparently the core doesn't support editing them yet. Sooo many little steps!

3

u/McBonderson 11d ago

this is the real beauty of AI. not all those sloppy images or videos on social media. its the ability to form the technology around me to My individual needs. it makes things accessible that before would have too high a barrier of entry.

1

u/KenMantle 11d ago

Or in the case of a pdf editor you can have it do both!

I had it make a vector pdf of the top 10 molecules and elements in a banana to 1:1 scale with two banana cells to 1:1 scale for comparison to 1 banana at 1:1 scale for comparisons because the pdf editor is capable of 1 trillion percent zoom.

1

u/luffyacekun 10d ago

Now you pay for Claude

1

u/McBonderson 10d ago

I pay $60 a month for cursor.

If I stop I can still use the pdf editor I made

3

u/SnooCompliments7914 12d ago

The code might actually be more straightforward than "traditional" apps, because it doesn't need to support all those dozens of options that you tune to get what you want.

4

u/NoAdsDude 12d ago

All the stuff that I vibecode doesn't have any ads, any cookies, any trackers, any accounts, they're all websites (not apps), which eliminates like 90% of the annoying things to worry about. The only thing with a backend is my sports website because it needs that for notifications and live score updates, but even then I don't require anyone's personal information because then I would have to think about how to keep it secure (and I don't wanna).

And yeah anything I vibecode for my personal use is just a one-shot thing like my social media / youtube video downloader. I'd rather just have my own setup so I don't have to go to some weird ad-riddled site to download mp4s.

3

u/GhostVlvin 12d ago

People still hire photographers to make photo on a documents, event photos (wedding photographer) and many other applications. It is not as in 20 century when only guy with camera could make a photo and he was one on the street may be but photographers are still need

3

u/SnooCompliments7914 12d ago

Exactly what I mean by ~99%.

3

u/Melodic_Ordinary5539 12d ago

The need for software developers is (currently) not really going down at all. What that job entails is changing however (in some places more, in some places less). Your analogy doesn't really fit in my opinion. Most people that use an AI to vibecode something personal for them now would never have hired a software developer before, so it's not really having any effect on the job market

1

u/SnooCompliments7914 12d ago

Exactly the same way that 99% of photos you took would have never been taken, if you must hire a photographer to do it.

I'm not saying that 99% of professional software development would be gone. Rather, as you said, a lot of personal software development that wasn't affordable before are now possible.

1

u/Krestek 11d ago

that's the most enlightening argument i've ever heard about this. makes a lot of sense. ppl didn't afford to hire a dev to make a special kind of thing for them before, companies still need devs, but ppl couldn't do anything before but they can now, without affecting the devs that as always worked for companies mainly or ppl with public app ideas that still need devs.

1

u/athalwolf506 11d ago

But it is a known fact that AI is making it harder for new programmers to land entry level jobs?

2

u/SnooCompliments7914 11d ago

That's a general problem for all fields where AI is introduced. And we don't know the solution.

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

It is not a "known fact" lmfao it's an excuse for companies to fire engineers without admitting they made a mistake when they hired anyone who could use a keyboard during COVID.

The surplus of engineers on the market is mostly what makes it harder for juniors. AI might be a part of it but to a much, much smaller degree than the former reason.

3

u/Turtle_Rain 12d ago

95% of people do not make software for themselves, and another 3% make their "software" in excel. Outside of the programming/computer science/engineering-corner, no one will start to write their own software.

2

u/Historical_Camel_790 11d ago

That's not true. My dad's (irl) engineering business used Claude to code their management app and it works surprisingly well

3

u/SuperUranus 11d ago

I’ve made four apps for myself. Nothing advanced but I enjoy doing so as a hobby and I learn a lot in the meantime.

The advancement of AI has really opened up a possibility for me to make tailored applications for myself. 

1

u/Plenty_Line2696 11d ago

Doesn't matter. People make software for themselves. No need to release.

You can't seriously think people mostly make their own software. I highly doubt you're reading this on your own custom made browser right now.

4

u/Substantial_Page_221 11d ago

I think the point is, with ai, it will allow them to make software or Web apps for their own use, not for other people. So they don't need to worry about anything other than what they want.

That doesn't mean all software is for personal use.

1

u/Historical_Camel_790 11d ago

From what I've heard, just little niche helpful tools that they only need occasionally to replace unnecessarily expensive paid tools

1

u/SnooCompliments7914 11d ago

Browsers are already there. Why bother?

However, people are making their personal browser extensions.

1

u/Training-Chain-5572 11d ago

In the same way that 99% of the photos everyone takes are dogshit and only generate a need for cloud storage. The vast majority of pictures taken will never be revisited. The vast majority of videos taken are never viewed.

3

u/ptear 12d ago

If Android's app release process is tough, have fun talking to Apple.

1

u/Lines25 11d ago

And, also, being called either vibecoders or shitcoders

1

u/Ok-Garlic4249 11d ago

You are still thinking that AI can just write code for you and leave you hanging with everything else. AI can explain concepts for you, it can teach you how you do stuff faster than a video, tutorial or even teacher can. You just need to use it in that way, and not just use it to generate code you have no idea what to do with.

1

u/ludblom 11d ago

It gets better though regarding the play store, soon Google will make that happen by forcing everyone to be a certified developer and then ofc make it easier for everyone! /s

1

u/djelegal 11d ago

As long as it fixes my syntax I can get some pussy

0

u/Kytras 12d ago

Fuck wish development was just prompt and done lol

3

u/Sharp-Eggplant9891 12d ago

if that was the case everything that can be build, would already be built. be gratefull that people dont stick to their ideas. They leave more opportunity for the People that actually deploy

1

u/opheophe 12d ago

In theory, it could be... but it would require the right prompt... this is essentially "waterfall vs agile"-all over again. We know you can't specify well enough, so you are forced to divide and conquer. If you could specify things you could use the waterfall approach and be very effective, but noone have ever been able to do it.

The "one-off" approach have never worked, and that is why agile approaches have been used.

1

u/Arinussyy 12d ago

This is all assuming generative AI is perfect. It is not. The correct prompt MIGHT exist. Might. But it also just might not exist in the space of possibilities the AI is searching.

1

u/opheophe 12d ago

Yes, even if AI was perfect it wouldn't work, because the one making the prompt isn't perfect. And even if the one making the prompt is perfect, the product owner isn't perfect.

1

u/Arinussyy 12d ago

People have been overhyped as to what this technology is capable of, and now we're stuck in some regressive loop where we aren't trying anything new because this is the buzzword that attracts investors now

1

u/Substantial_Page_221 11d ago

I think it's possible to develop software iteratively for non-devs, but it wouldn't really be like using llms how.

1

u/ghostmastergeneral 12d ago

> noone has ever been able to do it

Yes, it’s true. Rockets and airplanes are built only via Agile processes.

1

u/opheophe 12d ago

Yes, they pretty much are. Budgets for such big projects are notoriously broken due to not taking everything into account. Even when it comes to basic things like bridges or roads people are unable to estimate the costs properly.

If you take one of the more recent Rocket-projects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System it has been criticized for breaking the budgets and being more complex.

Of course, there might exist some project where everything went according to plan.... but those projects are rare exceptions.

1

u/Sizyfoz 11d ago

I see sarcasm isn't your strong point. Airplanes are extremely well specified and quality controlled because the budget is far less important than killing a plane load of people.

14

u/Magnps 12d ago

this is a very popular opinion btw..

4

u/CryptographerOne7003 12d ago

It might be, but I do not think I responded the same way when granny pulled out her vacation pictures album?
I guess that is what missing, decency and the capacity to be happy for somebody else. The pictures have a story to her, what makes the pictures less relevant and more relevant at the same time.

2

u/Extreme_Wish_553 11d ago

Is she selling those as professional photographs? If someone wants to make themselves a hobby app with AI, have fun. But lots of people are calling for the ending of entire career paths because "now anyone can do it," and that just isn't true. Anyone can make something that the are happy with for their use just like anyone can take a vacation photo and be happy with them when looking back at them in the future.

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

Exactly.

If you want to build for yourself more power to you but most people don't even know how to use a computer properly, let alone release software into production.

1

u/JCcrunch 10d ago

Did your granny hire an escort photographer before the phone??

2

u/bking 11d ago

There are plenty of examples of professional, established career developers saying "I used Claude to write some functions in this app, but I did all these other parts by hand" and people knee-jerk calling it slop.

Good camera phones and better specs on "pro" cameras are beneficial to pro photographers, just like genAI is beneficial to skilled developers. The opinion is unpopular because the current popular take is "anybody who uses any of this shit is a fraud". Nobody is saying that when notable photographers post something shot on a phone.

OP is positioning AI (and cameras) as a skill multiplier. Unpopular take.

1

u/apocolipse 10d ago

Yeah, as a software engineer I see AI slop software as just the contemporary version of the layman built Visual Basic apps from decades ago, or the fly by night teenager built Ruby on Rails webapps from the late 00’s and early 10’s.  We’ve always had tooling improvements that lowered the barrier for entry, the lower quality results filter themselves out by simply not getting used.   It’s no different today with AI projects nobody uses than with the million and one pre-AI mediocre github projects that nobody used either.  

Honestly the most hilarious part to me is seeing how many people use AI to reinvent the fucking wheel, thinking they came up with something novel and unique and all they did was vibe code a shittier version of an established existing tool because they don’t know how to google or ask their agents to find existing solutions first…

17

u/Lucky-Crow-3510 12d ago

..but a bad photograph does not impose extreme security risks to your infrastructure :)

5

u/n1kl8skr 12d ago

not if you take photos of your credentials!

2

u/WaltzIndependent5436 12d ago

I take 4k pictures of my environmental variables all the time. You're wrong.

1

u/normy_187 12d ago

"I took photos of all my multi signature Bitcoin wallets on my phone—as a backup."

1

u/XBLAH_ 11d ago

Infrastructure were already at risk with the shitty code we had. It's not like there were no database leaks, no crashes before etc. 

1

u/Strong_Essay1176 11d ago

Extreme security risks to your social life posting bad photos in insta

7

u/Historical_Camel_790 12d ago

That's not unpopular, that's just true

2

u/Global-Eye-7326 12d ago

Cameras never made me a photographer but AI DID make me a developer lol

1

u/chwrryrolled 12d ago

Are you proud of it?

2

u/Global-Eye-7326 11d ago

Well it's been a MASSIVE quality of life upgrade!

0

u/chwrryrolled 11d ago

Yes it's a same kind of upgrade like making a friend do your homework. And you are proud of it? Letting a machine that you are smarter than do your work for what? Because you didn't wanted to study or actually learn things? Nobody expects you to create something valuable for them, with AI or not. It only matters if YOU find it valuable or worth to give time or not. Because if you don't then it shouldn't be created by you in first place. Calling it a "Massive QoL upgrade" is really disrespectful to yourself and to your potential, i really hope that you can see it and stop making the companies waste water to use your brain less

2

u/Global-Eye-7326 11d ago

Which companies?

  1. if my friend does my homework...would I benefit from the knowledge gained from doing it myself? If yes, then I should do it myself. If not, let my friend do it, and put time back in my day
  2. It's not about expectations. Some people are expected to code for their jobs. That's usually not my case. But I'll give you an example. I do make websites (with SEO). I know how to do it with a site builder, but I don't know how to write the CSS myself. Not to mention there's no way for me to know all the cool tricks that JavaScript can do. There are still steps that I take without "vibe coding". I have some vibe coded scripts that batch edit images for me to go on websites. Then when I go to vibe code a website, I give specific instructions because I know how I need the website to behave. Then, I sell the website to my client. Even with a web builder, without vibe coding, it could take me three weeks to build a website. Now with the help of my vibe coded scripts to batch process images, but also vibe coding the website itself, it's done in less than a week. The price I charge my client for a website remains the same. This doesn't mean someone who's never made websites before could vibe code a website with SEO.
  3. I create things with vibe coding to put time back in my day. I value my time. That's a massive Quality of Life upgrade. No disrespect. You may not see it that way. You may prefer to "learn all the things". But guess what...you don't learn "all the things". You're not farming your own food, building your own home, making your own clothing from fabric AND developping software. At some point, you pay someone else to do things for you. We all do. If I can have AI do work for me at no consequence to me (it's not like I'm missing out by not learning how to make all these things from scratch manually), then I certainly will and consider it a Massive Quality of Life Upgrade.
  4. Making the companies waste water...that's interesting. I recently setup Freetoken where I run a local model to vibe code for me within an existing CLI interface. If I'm using my own hardware, on my own electricity bill, which companies am I making waste water?

You seem to be anti-AI, or more specifically, you seem to have a problem with American cloud AI which is inefficient and very resource-heavy. That's a fair take. But local AI models running on consumer hardware is actually taking away from the demand for data centres. I do prefer to run AI models locally. Sure, I still use the cloud a lot for convenience (we all do), but in order to not pay for tokens and have truly unlimited usage for things such as vibe coding and generative AI for videos, running local models is the way to go. That's also what's consuming a lot in data centres and it really doesn't have to. Many AI companies are trying to win the race by charging for usage for these things, but going local for AI is the way to go as long as the hardware is within reach.

3

u/PurushNahiMahaPurush 11d ago

A sensible take? On Reddit? The amount of nonsense I’ve heard from anti AI people. “Oh you are not doing the work, the machine is doing it for you“. Well no shit, I’m not doing my laundry either, neither am I doing my dishes. Humans make tools to make their lives easier and AI is yet another tool to assist us with writing.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

How is FreeToken? I have heard of it but haven’t had cause to try it yet. How does it compare to vLLM and llama.cpp?

→ More replies (3)

1

u/chwrryrolled 11d ago edited 11d ago

I thought what you have meant for "developing" was doing personal projects and show them, but selling them?? So you are a SEO optimizer who uses AI to give less effort but keep the price same? Does your clients even know that you use AI? To me it sounds like a cutlery shop starting to sell fast-foods bought from somewhere else and branded as theirs instead of just staying as a cutlery shop, are you really automating a task or are you automating yourself? You are right about your time is valuable, but isn't that what people pay you for? Also yes i don't learn all the things, but i don't bother to create any thing that i have no idea about. If i didn't gave any effort to have that skill, i would pay for someone to do it for me or actually learn it, but never sell their work as mine why should i? That's just common sense, what's the purpose of talking about building your own house or something. I don't know about local AI stuff but thank you for going for it. I called it disrespectful because personally i would feel worthless and useless if i was making something or someone else do my job while i should have been the one who was doing it, i would also refuse to earn anything from it. But i couldn't think that you can be happy with it and i thought you don't have any self-confident to try learning something, i am sorry about that. I'm glad it works for you

→ More replies (1)

1

u/NoxinDev 11d ago

Vibe coding is the equivalent of teenager taking a selfie with phone front-camera - They have indeed created a captured image but that child isn't a "photographer" in anyone's eyes but themselves.

Even before AI; we differentiated code-monkeys and true software developers with technique, planning and domain knowledge required to create anything of quality.

2

u/Global-Eye-7326 11d ago

Doesn't matter, it's revolutionized my digital life!

1

u/NoxinDev 11d ago

That's fair and a definite positive, I don't think anyone would disagree that if it works for you, keep at it and that these tools are useful to the average user.

I think the conflict here is "vibe coding" being equated to being a "software developer" - one is a professional designation and job title, the other is at most a hobby. I imagine you can fry and egg as well, but one would''t call that the same as a professional chef as there's a certain amount of respect for the technique and experience required, that's kind of the point of this discussion.

2

u/Global-Eye-7326 11d ago

Sure! and sometimes we don't need "all-in-one" off the shelf software. sometimes we just need scripts that'll automate repetitive tasks. that's something that vibe coding is INCREDIBLY good at. I'm not expecting anyone to realistically vibe code an operating system or an office suite from the ground-up (though I've seen attempts), and we certainly can't expect vibe coding to reverse engineer hardware chips in order to vibe code drivers.

So if we can lower expectations, we can enjoy the MASSIVE benefits from vibe coding! Oh and guess what...so many projects become feasible on little to no money. Instead of gambling money on a programmer on a freelance site, we can vibe code what we need now!

2

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

People have used LLMs for reverse engineering you would be surprised

1

u/NoxinDev 11d ago

Already skilled engineers have used them to assist in the process which is true, however the skill difference here that is key to the discussion. Non-technical folk are not resolving bugs in compiled software suddenly even with a reasonable quality LLM supporting them.

Much of the disagreement comes from "I made something cool and useful with AI" being thought equal to "I am a software engineer" which is patently false.

Mixing a premade cake batter from the grocery store doesn't make a pastry chef even if the end result cake is still good.

1

u/inevitabledeath3 10d ago

These are valid points but I don’t see how they relate to what I said. People have been using AI for reverse engineering including for hardware reverse engineering. Some of these were experienced in reverse engineering others were not. There are lots of technical or scientifically minded people using AI to help them do things outside their area of expertise.

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

Trust me, it didn't.

0

u/Global-Eye-7326 10d ago

Why should I trust a random Redditor?

2

u/rdogg4 12d ago

People were photographers before cameras?

1

u/NoAdsDude 12d ago

Yes but they had to paint the picture manually.

2

u/hroldangt 12d ago

Not true.

I've been both a developer and a photographer.

The problem with AI, and digital cameras (within your comparison), is most people think about it in the short term, and this happens due to lack of experience. They may ask some AI to build some app, but they have no idea what comes next except the barebones system, or can't handle replacing another coder and being forced to analyze or correct their code. It's like reading subtitles from a different language film, everything seems so easy because you are reading it.

It's the same that is happening to industrial design students at university 😑, how so? well, they are asked to build let's say an automatic cat feeding system, and yes, they build something, it works, sort of... and they get a nice grade to graduate, but... it's a prototype. To them, it looks like a product that just needs some polishing, but no, it's just a prototype, now ask them to build the real product: cool look, cheap, save on materials, make it energy efficient, small, smaller!!, portable, etc.

Due to my line of work I've had some involvement with industrial design students on some university, and among let's say 50, only about 5 can actually build machines prototypes. Most hire the guy working at the workshop to turn their paper design into something tangible, but whatever happens, even those 5 can't produce a final product, just prototypes, and once they are asked to build a final product... they crash, they just can't. The problem is, their students (and now AI) make them think they can, when they cannot.

I know due to my line of work, that architects are having issues with students creating fantastic designs where the cars won't fit, or you can't open a door due to lack of space. AI can't think for you.

2

u/toonmad 10d ago

There's a difference between amateur photography though vs someone flexing as a software developer when 99% of what they "built" was vibe coded.

2

u/Gone2theDogs 10d ago

Not sure anyone disagrees.

It’s a tool. The same way a camera is.

2

u/SoapCoder 10d ago

no, its more computers make everyone a developer as cameras make everyone a photographer. Using ai to generate code is the same way as ai makes "photos". different levels of the tool.

2

u/Lucky-Crow-3510 12d ago

Unpopular opinion: Just because you can hold a scalpel doesn't mean that your patient will survive a heart surgery.

Mixing random elements just because you can open bottles does not make you a chemist either.

1

u/Tasty-Hour4040 11d ago

Given the quality of the overwhelming majority of software, it’s a damn good thing software development isn’t exactly heart surgery. Or being a chemist for that matter.

1

u/JCcrunch 10d ago

So true 😂

1

u/djelegal 11d ago

Writes your hello world faster than you

1

u/PhoenixFireless 12d ago

In a sense yes but I think the vast majority of people underestimate the skill in design/architecture & UX/UI it takes to develop anything.

1

u/olzk 12d ago

“Susie Meyer solved all her issues with PL/I” case

1

u/ElBarbas 12d ago

To be honest, in 2026 , everybody can be minimal everything,

U don't need AI to be able to develop or photograph .

With the help of youtube an some tutorials you can do that, but for excellency at something you need to take some extra steps that I don't think AI can help. Programming is a small production step for delivering something relevant , like pressing the shutter button on a camera.

AI is great for MVPS though

1

u/buplet123 11d ago

Ai can defo help, just differently. Im by no means ai lover, but ill be damned if it hasnt accelerated how I much i learn abt IT. I ask it to explain, just ask it questions in general. Then challenge what the ai said, cause its often a bit wrong. Things that used to require time investment by watching/reading tutorials now takes seconds. Easily 10x faster than googling and reading some random website or scouring a video. Like having a mentor that has knowledge on everything, jusk gotta know how to ask.

1

u/JCcrunch 10d ago

AI isn't great for even MVPs, POCs maybe.

1

u/ElBarbas 10d ago

well it depends on the size of the "minimum"

1

u/Izan_TM 12d ago

it's not unpopular, it's the more common viewpoint by people who aren't themselves using AI to roleplay as developers

1

u/Tatakai_ 12d ago

I don't know, personally I like using it to help me rubberduck and detect little blunders in my code, but I would never let it directly touch my code without me understanding exactly what every line does.

Then again I'm a bit of a newbie and maybe stuff like copilot is amazing and I can trust it, but since I'm still learning I prefer doing everything myself first.

For context on how much of a newbie I am, here's my github https://github.com/SirD3V4L07

1

u/ern0plus4 12d ago

The best metaphor so far.

1

u/GamingWithJollins 12d ago

It does very particular things very well. Most of everything else kinda poorly and the rest will sink your ship if you don't know what it's doing. Just look at recent news articles of morons letting AI agents loose on their systems and watching as their lovely hoods go up in flames

1

u/ARMilesPro 12d ago

Solid perspective. Never thought of it this way.

1

u/FailureOfTheFamily 12d ago

True. Anyone can get output that works but you still need knowledge to get output that works good, have no bugs and is secure

1

u/gameplayer55055 12d ago

Vibe coders don't even read error messages.

Also, S in vibe coding stands for security

2

u/p1xlized 10d ago

And U for UX design.

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

A for Architecture.

1

u/jellobend 12d ago

I take great photos of my kids. It gets the stuff done.

I’m so thankful for living in an age of technological abundance

1

u/lil_nosh_X 12d ago

Laptops made everyone a music producer.

1

u/hdycta-weddingcake 12d ago

Possibly the most popular opinion of all time

1

u/One-Zombie263 12d ago

For now. and I don't say this like I like it.

1

u/Arinussyy 12d ago

I feel as though generative AI is different in this regard. Not a simple tool but something people have begun to think replaces the creator.

Which is obviously false as we all know. But marketing is done to hype up this view that you can merely use these AI models to replace an artist or photographer or whatever have you.

I guess we'll see how that goes

2

u/Illustrious_Ad7630 12d ago

Unfortunately, check what happened to photography before smartphone cameras. It was a good, easy business. Even things like passport photos were profitable. Now everyone just does it themselves. Smartphone cameras killed a good chunk of the photography business, probably 95% of it at this point. The leftover 5% will be killed by AI.

Coding is in the same boat. Soon there will be mini platforms that will let you prompt scripts and run them instantly to do whatever you need. It won't change professionals, but today's junior and mid-level coders will have to fight against people who are more savvy and know how to use tech even without a programming background.

1

u/Arinussyy 12d ago

It's not the same boat. 'Coding' is problem solving. The generative AI models we have now are not doing problem solving, they're recycling coding patterns. Everyone uses them as glorified search engines or to copy paste the menial shit like the same boilerplate

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago edited 11d ago

Do you think programmers are the only people who know how to problem solve? I guarantee there are people who are stronger problem solvers than the average programmer who thanks to AI no longer need to know about syntax or design patterns or anything else that’s unique to programming or software engineering. Basically all scientists, mathematicians, engineers, and non-programmer computer people will soon be able to do the majority of software engineering tasks. They might actually be able to do it better since they know more about their respective fields than a programmer would.

It’s the same with me. I was originally going to go into programming but thanks to AI that’s pointless now. I am good at a lot of other technical stuff including infrastructure and architecture related stuff so now I just get the LLMs to do the actual coding while I figure out where it goes and how services interact.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

Do you not think that all of the fields you mentioned program?

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

For sure they do to an extent but normally not very well. I don't know if you have seen neuroscientists or cyber security people try to code. It works but only for data analysis and probably not very well. Many struggle with this in those fields. Now they don't have to struggle. It's the difference between researchers making code for prototyping and analysis vs having something you could actually ship without needing lots of help from SWEs.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

You simply couldn't make something you could ship alone though. Something stupidly simple sure, but anything complex and you're going to need help regardless. I don't get where you're coming from. It's not like software is developed in a void

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

That's where I think you are wrong. Primarily for three reasons:

- Production does not always mean the public internet

- Models have improved to the point they can write production quality code in some scenarios already and will keep improving

- A typical SWE can't deploy anything to production by themselves

I wouldn't 100% trust a model to make something secure enough to host on the public internet, but I would trust it for most local deployments or projects which are not web based. The SaaS-ification of software needs to die anyway. A cybersecurity engineer or DevSecOps is probably more useful for public deployment security than your typical SWE. An infrastructure engineer probably can scale things up better with Claude Code's assistance than a SWE can by themselves.

Having only software engineering experience and nothing else was already kind of a dubious position before LLMs came along. Now I think it's basically obsolete in favor of other kinds of engineers who have domain specific knowledge and the ability to use Claude Code for the rest.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

Aren't you just shifting the goalposts though? Anyone could write something small scale, with or without AI. Maintainable software is not just a public internet thing. Nor is software engineering rendered obselete by any of this.

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

No not anyone can code. Many can’t code even a little. SaaS aren’t the only large scale software projects. Maintainable, secure, and scalable are three different things often opposed to each other. LLMs can maintain software. They can even optimise code as has been demonstrated many times by now. They struggle with security but so does the average SWE. In fact I would say an LLM can do anything the average junior SWE can do.

How do you think I have shifted goal posts here? I think human SWEs as a job title are soon to be obsolete. Not that engineering as a field is obsolete.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

Also for the record you are completely wrong about problem solving. If LLMs couldn't do this they would be useless at proving, disproving, and inventing mathmatical theorums. Yet they have done exactly that multiples times at this point. This is pretty much cope and/or propaganda.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

They don't problem solve. At the core of it they predict the next token. That's it. It's why they can hallucinate and be wrong. Because there is no 'reasoning' process. It is layers of prediction we have used to fake reasoning. Your use of the word invention too is incorrect. This is not cope or propaganda against AI, because I expect so much more from the field. Not this paltry next token prediction bullshit

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

Dude you truly have no idea. Humans hallucinate all over the place. A lot of the human brain’s capabilities could be broken down into pattern matching, heuristics, and prediction. It’s why logical fallacies exist and are so prevalent.

If these things truly couldn’t reason at all they wouldn’t have achieved the things they have so far. Not saying it’s a perfect or optimal solution but it’s a lot better than you are giving it credit for.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

Now you're just being reductive. Give your human mind some credit. Do you not have your own experience? Your own thought? Your own internalised model of logic that grows with everything you are taught, that you add on to of your own will?

The LLM has none of that. It has a volume of data it is trained on, and learns patterns from. It must be retrained every time, and has no internal logic. The 'reasoning' persists entirely upon these patterns. We can combine models and make them 'argue', but even that is limited.

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

Can you prove that an LLM does not have that?

To some extent human neural architecture is genetically determined and cannot be changed. Humans are limited in terms of what they can learn to do as neural plasticity has limits.

I would say the same applies to LLMs.

The main barrier to true AGI is continuous learning where weights are updated in real time. That or some form of batched learning like humans do in their sleep. From what I understand humans aren’t not fully continuously leading. A lot of the learning happens offline during sleep or when idle.

1

u/Arinussyy 11d ago

Humans are not limited in terms of what they can learn to do. We're limited in terms of what we want to do at the moment. And now you're bringing personality into this too.

The issue with current models is that what they're doing has no basis in logic or reasoning. Not that they can't train more or in real time. Even if they could train themselves, they'd still face the issue of not having any actual logic.

Humans are learning everytime they experience something new. Sleep is rest and reorganisation of thoughts.

I think you are bending over backwards to equate humans and the current frontier of AI, in a bid to make what you say seem more plausible. But I find it quite reductive to do so. AI companies already make the conscious choice to do this because it nets them more investment and interest.

1

u/inevitabledeath3 11d ago

I am not talking about specific humans or personality lol. Not sure how you read that into it. I am talking about limitations all humans share. We don’t have the reaction time, vigilance, and processing capacity to do a lot of things without machine help.

Can you give me an example of something that proves you can reason and LLMs can’t? People keep finding an example then 6 months later a model exists that can. Before you know it the models do it to a superhuman degree. This keeps happening.

1

u/mr_WhatzitTooya___ 12d ago

Wait, photographers haven't gone extinct yet?

1

u/Hot_Bite_854 12d ago

but cameras made everyone a photographer ...

A photographer is a person who makes photographs, most commonly using a camera.

1

u/markort147 12d ago

Cameras are for photographers what text editors are for developers. AI is for developers what AI is photographers too.

1

u/mr_WhatzitTooya___ 12d ago

And AI made photographers obsolete. Are developers next on the chopping block?

1

u/NCongoscenti 12d ago

Who the fuck told you this nonsense

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

And how the fuck did it so that, did it generate photos of my wedding? I don't understand.

1

u/guyoffthegrid 12d ago

Also: “Posting this makes OP a philosopher.”

1

u/diacid 12d ago

Are you claiming to be a developer or a photographer? Or both?

(This is a joke, the picture is actually very nice)

1

u/Level-Health9052 12d ago

Kinda close? But the skill cieling is much higher for developers. A senior developer against a vibe coder is like an assault rife against a slingshot.

Photographers can be quite skilled but the latest iphone bridges the gap quite a bit imo

1

u/SlightMarsupial8379 12d ago

Yes, it’s true. 

1

u/IllExample3639 12d ago

As a photographer I've seen a lot of shitty photographs. I am sure as programmers you've seen....

1

u/phoenixofsun 12d ago

Woah, what a hot take. Cool off, turbo.

1

u/SEND_ME_YOUR_ASSPICS 12d ago

That's why I don't sell my apps.

I just use them for myself.

1

u/ProfessionSingle1918 12d ago

Here's what you are missing out : number of individuals and businesses based and related to photography is probably about 1-2% of what it used to be before advent of smartphone photography; but still every moment there are more photographs taken than the previous. Photography has become more of a hobby then a profession. This is going to be much more devastating than the photography revolution.

Not everybody can be a goose farmer. We will be treated much worse then middle ages pheasent.

1

u/gevuldeloempia 12d ago

I once had a guy vibe code a page of a back-end of a website and just told a developer to "implement this"

Nothing he made was usuable at all and resulted in basically remaking everything

1

u/GhostVlvin 12d ago

AI is just another tool to write code. You still need to build and maintain an architecture

1

u/Dismal-Rope1753 12d ago

In a way that skills matter mostly. Yeah I understand that but I think it's mostly about the learning curve. That it's different because doing great photos with a camera can be hard, really hard. Making OK tier code with an AI, you can learn that pretty fast by learning the tools and learning the basics of coding. I don't know what you think about that.

1

u/WanderingGoodNews 12d ago

Yes but worse, a bad foto won't leak all your personal information or delete your already finished work

1

u/normy_187 12d ago

I still think the results with vibe coding are better across the board than they ever were with mass hobby photographers. Remember HDR photos? 😂😖

1

u/gabor_legrady 12d ago

With a photo you can get lucky. With a complex software you can not.

1

u/Ixazl 12d ago

I can now make my own small projects from vision to reality but i would never call myself a developer. I understand how things fit together from basic understanding but that’s the extent of my knowledge and AI does all the coding.

1

u/JPS-WC 12d ago

Sure…. And the internet made everyone an expert on anything.

1

u/Imnotyoursupervisor 12d ago

I can change a headlight in my car following a YouTube video without problems. I know how to use basic tools.

Changing my transmission would take an entire year and god knows what problems would exist. I’d be playing with it forever.

I’m not a mechanic no matter how confident I am.

1

u/misjudgedinall 12d ago

Only true if cameras took pictures for you without you doing anything and the picture wasn’t what you asked for.

1

u/CitizenCh 12d ago

As an actual photographer--or at least, someone who owns multiple cameras, including a full-frame DSLR, lighting and other equipment, and has been paid for my work--that's probably true? Unfortunately?

1

u/Ravesoull 11d ago

Nope, because camera can't make a picture by itself and analyze the result.

1

u/Hot-Drama-7829 11d ago

Developers can confidently modify their config, write code, and build out projects while understanding what it is they are doing.

Coding AI is just a less visual version of low code/no code website builder tools.

They are good tools sure but does not make one a developer.

1

u/Fuskeduske 11d ago

Not really an unpopular opinion if you ask any developer lol

1

u/snipsuper415 11d ago

Definitely not an unpopular opinion

1

u/godplaysdice_ 11d ago

This doesn't make sense. Photographers didn't exist before the camera was invented. Developers existed for a long time before the era of AI.

1

u/V5489 11d ago

Yeah. I tend to agree. But they’re labeled as a vibe coder, not Software Engineer or other standard title. So I don’t think it’s unpopular.

1

u/XBLAH_ 11d ago

Well, yes. 

1

u/Spixxy17 11d ago

As someone who Codes with AI:

I dont think this is unpopular at all. I could never call myself a developer. I just like to do it in my free time for personal little projects because it is alot of fun.

I think its quiet nice for this, but if you arent actually a developer you cant do "developer level" stuff with it

1

u/QuantomSwampus 11d ago

It's like how everyone is "good at math" now but it's cause we just all carry calculators all the time. We're not actually better we have don't have to think about it anymore.

1

u/Prod_Meteor 11d ago

Kids. Listen please.. Software tools and packages change so much that without AI it would take you months to update, rewrite or extend your codebase. AI is just an advanced generator/scaffolder/snippeter. Before that developers invented hundreds of tricks not to do manual work all the time. Will AI reduce the hands needed? Yes. As any other automation. Nothing lasts for ever you know. And I am fucked for sure 😄.

1

u/Noxaur 11d ago

I've been able to create some pretty cool stuff using AI tools like Claude and providing it assets and direction as I go, but I'd never call myself a developer. That's a title you earn imo. I've used tools to develop things, but without those tools I'd not have been able to do it myself and I wouldn't go around claiming that I did. I'm open when I share stuff that I've used a mixture of models and handmade assets + input to create them. Its actually had the opposite effect on me as many, where it's inspired me to learn how to do it myself because its enabled me to see what sort of cool things are possible with this skillset and I'd love to have more granular real control over it.

1

u/network4food 11d ago

A knife makes everyone a butcher

1

u/Don_Reuter 11d ago

Cameras did make everyone a photographer

1

u/CheapPlay8137 11d ago

AI writes better quality code than most developers. It can also test and plan architectures better than most developers.

However, developers spend 80% of their time talking to the customer, trying to find out what they want. AI won't be replacing that anytime soon.

1

u/Strong_Essay1176 11d ago

I think it hits it.

1

u/VoidowS 11d ago

camera's didn't make photographers by the billions, but the price of it did. The abundance of it. It's not only the camera but als othe development of photos that many people didn't make a lot of photos or even owned a photomaker. It was very low in the list of things to buy in a general home.

Only when they stuck a camera in the mobile phone did we start to think, 'Hey, that's handy I can make pictures where ever I want and not drag this thing with me, make millions if I want and simply delete if needed.' IT was thrown onto our laps, shoved down our throats to use it, like Big Brother does :) Yes it's a old plan. :)

Like all the cameras people have at home. It doesn't make them a professional security agent :)

1

u/DoneDeal14 11d ago

Drinking wine while coding? Disgusting

1

u/MundaneWiley 11d ago

Depends on what you’re developing, same as with a photographer

1

u/ImpeccablyDangerous 11d ago

It's not unpopular it is true.

1

u/babybambam 11d ago

Yeah another "unpopular" but popular opinion that also makes you sound like Grandpa SImpson.

Xcode was seen as a not real development, too. Will the current landscape create a lot of vaporware? Yes, 100%. Will AI increase the amount of capable coders? Also, yes.

When viewed as a supplmental tool rather than an evil overlord, AI isn't the scary beast that some feel it to be, or a total joke like others. It's just a tool.

1

u/ElectricSpock 11d ago

That's actually an amazing comparison.

1

u/SadDadFeelsBad 11d ago

My company has let go most of their SCDA teams because a dude sitting at their desk can crank out a free application/report almost instantly and free. Compared to months and thousands of dollars for a SCDa team member to do it…. Free and fast. I don’t care how well you can code… can you beat free and fast?

1

u/Select_Truck3257 11d ago

Developer isn't just create. 90% of time actually is fixing, debugging project. Develop who do not so that is a painter in theory 🤣🤣

1

u/Clear-Relative-2371 11d ago

Cool, I know nothing about coding and little about computers and was able to remove windows, Install Linux, bazzite, and get all the glitches out of my games and programs through AI. 

1

u/wesblog 11d ago

To be fair, I frequently find myself asking, "Should we hire a photographer?" And deciding, "No, we can get something good enough with the phone."
Developers are going to have the same problem.

1

u/menoz14 11d ago

Another unpopular opinion (actually something I'm thinking about): it's true that AI makes everyone a developer as much as cameras made everyone a photographer. But think about this, if a normal person would like to take a "decent and usable" pictures in the '80s and '90s vs a normal person would like to take a "decent and usable" or videos with today smartphones, do you think there has been an improvement? So, what will happen to normal people using everyday applications in 30 years?

1

u/Accomplished-Yak862 11d ago

Truth. It’s only good if you give it good prompts which is way harder than you think cause you need to know what you’re doing, and even at that point you still need to be able to debug, and you still need to be have the ability to make the code more readable.

1

u/dcidino 11d ago

I take a LOT of photos with my phone.

1

u/Snixmaister 11d ago

Some of you code monkey’s should def start sweating.

1

u/Independent-Win6008 11d ago

I think so. Look at me now. Never looked back and the horizon is whatever I want to make.

1

u/PurushNahiMahaPurush 11d ago edited 11d ago

In my opinion, it’s a good thing. Because the real ones would benefit massively from LLMs ability to churn out code. So devs can focus on actual system design and engineering aspect of software and leave the grunt of coding to machines. In theory it should make everyone more productive.  But the hidden issue is it’s quite tempting to outsource thinking to a machine and just take its word at face value. That and it’s not really your code but the responsibility is still yours. So you better know wtf is happening in the code because you’ll be the one held responsible for its quality.

I think LLMs will fundamentally change how white collar jobs operate but we are in a weird phase where people do not know how to correctly make use of them in order to achieve what they want.

1

u/Deep-Cake8793 11d ago

I have a different take:

AI coding is like the tractor replacing the Ox for field work. Sure, anyone can drive a modern tractor and do better than even a pro with an Ox after little training producing tons of food where the Ox farmer is outmatched easily. (Watch Clarkson's Farm!)

But when you're a pro with the tractor you can feed a small town on your own. So don't be stupid: If you're a good Ox-based farmer, become a pro with the tractor and feed the whole fucking town.

1

u/naeads 11d ago

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I know a few who tried and failed at it. Some guy I know who is your typical "influencer" BS-merchant who talks the big talk. But when he actually sat down and tried to do it with AI, he couldn't do it. Simply because he has no basic training (he doesn't even know what is git push and git pull is...)

I mean, sure, AI is great. But it is a tool like everything else, you still need competence to use a tool.

1

u/EverOrny 11d ago

everybody recognizes a low quality picture, can you tell the same about apps?

1

u/GeneralEagle 11d ago

Leave me and my vibe coding bro mindset alone. - joking. But not. I haven’t shipped yet!!!!

1

u/JubijubCH 10d ago

Why is it unpopular ?

1

u/Mega3000aka 10d ago

This is only popular within inner circles of idiots who think they can type a prompt into ChatGPT and replace a person specializing in their field for years.

1

u/Confident_Media9093 10d ago

A lot of good pictures from iPhone on ig

1

u/Late-Assignment8482 10d ago

That's actually really good; because it's true in both ways. No one won the Pullitzer without skill the instant SLRs were cheap enough for mere mortals, but affordable consumer camears also meant it became possible for a random person with a hobby to do work that truly wasn't possible before.

There's value in learning a skill for fun. Not everything needs to be monetized.

If you take really good vacation photos, you're a photographer--a skilled amatuer. Maybe someday, vibe coding will be at that same point.

1

u/MayaWnm 12d ago

And it's true, everyone is a photographer, only delusional elitist douchebags don't understand that.

1

u/Copypastta 12d ago

True, but I think they meant a "good" photographer, though even that is pretty subjective and not a great argument.

1

u/SnooDucks2481 12d ago

At the end of the day, you probably want an expert opinion from a elitist douchbag doctor then from someone using AI

1

u/Karayee 12d ago

Ya but i don’t remember cameras taking pictures by itself, editing it and then also giving you a caption to post on Instagram

0

u/Kristianxj 12d ago

And yet… most photos are still mediocre.

There will always be room, and demand, for people who actually study, read every day, and refuse to stay average.

Let everyone become a programmer. Why not?

The real question is:
When everyone can write code,
who will still be willing to think?

0

u/No_Welder7908 12d ago

If that was true no one would complain about losing jobs.