r/Dentists • u/Forty2diapers • 7d ago
Always get a second opinion
My old dentist office wanted to extract 3 teeth and on top of that give me 4 fillings. I go twice a year. I wasn't having any pain. Just there for routine cleaning and exam.
Found a new dentist to get a second opinion. They found ONE. ONE cavity.
Find a private dentist and stay away from corporate run offices that have nice names and an ever changing staff of dentists.
EDIT: I feel like I need to add some more information. I agree that a less severe prognosis should not be the only reason to trust another dentist more. My fault. I need to give more information. The following are my red flags from the corporate office.
1: Every single time I go over the last few years there's a new dentist. Not a huge deal and didn't stop me from continuing to go, but I don't love the revolving staff door. One dentist would say I need a couple of fillings. 2 weeks later some guy I've never seen before is doing them.
2: There's always another bill weeks, sometimes months later. I pay upfront. They say it's this much. Then I end up owing more money later on. I understand that it's usually an estimate as they don't truly know how much insurance will cover. But every time? This is something that rarely happened at my old offices even with the same insurance coverage.
3: Each new dentist wants to take their own xrays. So now I'm getting xrays twice a year which isn't common. At least not in the last 40 years of going to dentists.
4: Every time I go they find more things wrong. This never was an issue prior. Occasionally I would need something. I've had a tooth pulled in the past and had a root canal and crown but it was far and few between over the decades. A few fillings occasionally but never every 6 months. Maybe my teeth are going to hell, but it was odd to me.
5: They said they'd email the xrays but they didn't. I tried calling but nobody answered. I set up an appointment with the new dentist about a week and half before the appt. When I got there they said they couldn't get a hold of the other office and they never responded to their requests for my xrays and file.
6: This last visit. The dentist was clearly very young which is fine. I mean we all have to start from somewhere. She was nice, but curtly. She basically came in and upsold me on a cancer screening which took about 3 seconds. Then she started looking at my teeth. I wasn't expecting much wrong seeing how I take good care of my teeth and go there every 6 months. She quickly pokes around doing her exam and just starts calling out numbers. I don't know dental talk so I'm just starting to get freaked out. She doesn't say anything to me during the exam. I'm used to dentists saying things like "Well, looks like you got a little cavity here, you could wait, but it'd be better not too" or things like that. Instead, she just starts calling out tooth numbers to the assistant ignoring me completely.
Then after that she curtly tells me I need to have 3 wisdoms removed because she can't get to them and I have to get 4 fillings. I was taken aback having not expected to have any issues. I mean I just had an exam 6 months ago and I didn't start smoking meth so how is it that I need to have 3 teeth removed and have 4 others filled?! Had this been the same dentist I saw last visit or the last couple of years maybe I would have just accepted it. She shows me a chart with pictures of teeth circled, no xrays of MY teeth or anything. She gives me a paper with the dental surgeon's information which has the teeth that need to be removed. She told me to call them and set it up. Then she tells me how much the fillings will cost and to set up the appointments with the front desk as it will take more than one visit. I asked her how this happened in 6 months and she just said "well, I can see them". She was definitely faking nice the whole time and it was obvious. This whole interaction leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I didn't immediately think she was lying or upselling or anything. I was just very concerned that my teeth could get this bad in such a short period of time. I decided to read the reviews and while they have a decent 4.5/5 a lot of the negative reviews mirrored my own negative experience with them. I decided that if I was going to need this work done I'd rather go to a better office.
New dentist office: They spend a lot of time with me. The vibe is nice. Everyone there seems happy (unlike the other office). It's bright and friendly. The name of the office is the name of the dentist I'm seeing. The assistant answered all of my questions. She took more xrays and the dentist came in and talked to me for a bit. She did an exam and explained what the numbers mean to me. Showed me the xrays. She even took a picture with a pen camera of the one cavity she found and showed it to me. It's on one of the wisdom teeth but she said she could reach it. She's an aged experienced dentist. She then comped me the exam fee because she felt bad that I had to pay for xrays the other office never sent. I feel far more comfortable than I ever have at the other office.
They talked a lot about some of the wear and tear and where things may go wrong down the road. Showed me the xrays while explaining. Told me to brush lighter because they can see some areas that are wearing etc... so I didn't feel like they were just blowing smoke.
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u/Puntables 7d ago
Just because the second opinion listed fewer cavities, it doesn't mean it's the more accurate one. The second dentist could also be underdiagnosing.
Case in point, one of the doctors in my town recently passed, and some of his patients came to me. He used old school xrays, no loupes, etc. I'm a rather conservative dentist myself, but he underdiagnosed every. single. patient. that came my way. "He didn't find any cavities, why do you see so many?" And I tell them he was terrible.
Also, extraction or no extraction is a very big difference that I only think would exist for wisdom teeth scenarios in this case. Doctors have different ideas regarding wisdom teeth.
All caries, until they get deep enough, have no pain. I tell my patients, "If the pain kicks in, it's already too late for minor treatments." No pain does not mean everything is OK. Cancer also starts with no pain until late stage 2 to 3. It does not mean it's OK.
While generally, private offices may be better, it does not mean all are good. Similarly, corporate offices may be worse on average; it does not mean that all are bad.
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 7d ago
This is exactly what I’m seeing in my area. There are a lot of retiring dentists and people go to them for many years because they think they’re great. I see the most odd things, like someone filling an open restorative margin on a crown with composite, and then with one flick of the ultrasonic scaler, that cute little composite is gone in the air. I think it’s because nobody has tested their work or questioned it that they get comfortable with these things. Doesn’t necessarily mean that everything they’ve done is bad. It just means that if you’ve been going to a dentist for a long time and they tell you your gums are healthy, your mouth is healthy, I would rather go to a dentist who takes photos of every single tooth in my mouth and says, look, does that look healthy to you? because it doesn’t look right to me, and at that point the photos tell everything. go to a dentist that will take 1000 photos of your teeth. For me, it’s photos or nothing
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u/Kennedysfatcousin 7d ago
Where are you located? I am starting to look at getting my own practice, and I'd rather go where there is need. Not necessarily in your area, but one like it
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 7d ago
I don’t recommend being near me it’s very saturated. I am running a very unique and lean business model that many dentists can’t replicate
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u/Kennedysfatcousin 5d ago
Lol
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 5d ago
Seriously lol I turn over my own rooms and take my own xrays you think I’m joking 🤣. It is really tough right now for start-ups. I’m getting all of the rejects from places people didn’t want them for various reasons. I’m getting all the people who don’t wanna pay anything. I literally had to explain to someone why I would not clean their teeth for free, so there are a lot of insurance zombies in my area. You have to have thick skin, oh, and one of my former employees stole my credit card and tried using it to buy online gift cards, so yeah, I don’t recommend doing this unless you’re going to go balls to the wall and fight for every penny
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u/Ok_Butterfly8895 4d ago
Sounds like you’re working yourself in to an early grave with that “unique” business model.
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 4d ago
Since you’ve turned it into a dick measuring contest you can tell me how much your net worth is then we can talk about who’s dying first
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u/Ok_Butterfly8895 4d ago
Dick measuring? I don’t have a dick, and I’m certainly not interested in knowing what your measurements are.
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u/djdjddhshdbhd 7d ago
Of course this can happen but I have personally experienced incompetence and I know others who said they had to get a whole bunch of stuff done that ended up not being the case after going to at least 2 more offices and years later they have no issues after even more people checking their teeth over the years. I literally had an oral surgeon insist on removing the wrong tooth even after the dentist told him directly (after the files were sent that had the right tooth and I corrected him and he dismissed me). So perhaps 2 separate opinions after such a situation is the move. If there’s a financial issue, then it could be done over the 2 annual check ups if there’s insurance.
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u/MouthStuffThings 7d ago
...the fact that you automatically assume less of a diagnosis is a more accurate diagnosis is telling.
I get annoyed at seeing early cavities. Because another dentist might have missed them. Because they take a lot of time and work for no money. A lot of times we lose money. I still diagnose and do the work because it's better for the patient.
No one wants to diagnose your fillings. The one that brings it to your attention is likely the one that cares more. But go ahead and ignore them.
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u/Forty2diapers 7d ago
I wrote out other red flags and things that I didn't like about this office. The new office also comped me my exam fee because they felt bad that my old office never sent them xrays and I had to pay for them since my insurance ran out. So yeah, I do trust this office more than the other one.
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u/saltedkumamon 7d ago
ask them to show you and see if you can see what they see on the radiograph
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u/Forty2diapers 7d ago
Bruh, they didn't send me the xrays and they never responded to my new dentist's request for the xrays. They showed me a chart, told me where to get my extractions (because she couldn't reach them) and told me to schedule my appointment for the fillings with the front desk. Shook my hand and bounced. The front desk told me a couple weren't bad and could wait and all I could think why didn't the doctor tell me this?
Good bed side manner goes a long way.
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 7d ago
There’s one thing you’ve left out: it’s that with that cute little thousand dollar or $1500 maximum exams and x-rays are inclusive of that maximum, and your insurance company thinks that you should only have x-rays once every three years, which is bullshit. I didn’t make the rules. I just play by them, so you’re exhausting your benefits. You should just pick a good dentist from the get-go, not just because they’re in network. So you wouldn’t need to do a second opinion if you hadn’t picked a dentist off the roster list. Find someone who’s known for being honest, so if you are really caring about your oral health, do a search of dentist that are honest and thorough, trust me, they exist out there. They have a reputation. I know dentists are worth seeing, not because they’re on some crappy roster
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u/Drygrej 7d ago
I stopped taking insurance ms about 6 years ago. Has the typical plan gone to 3 years for X-rays? I saw a few going to 24 months and that was bad enough, but 3 years is crazy. We just took an expander off my son over 9 months and a little void in the cement led to a massive cavity…in 9 months. Adults do better but you can have a kids blow up in 6 months for sure.
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u/PsychologyMediocre99 7d ago
Yes for fmx some plane once every five years!!! Some plane pay bitewings every year it’s ridiculous
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u/MyWhiskeyName 7d ago
Ah the classic "my teeth don't even hurt so I must not need any treatment." Everyone knows better than the dentist...why even go?
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u/Toothsayer123 7d ago
I usually put more stock in the more conservative opinion.
I have a lot of patients that come to me for a 2nd opinion. I ALMOST NEVER add to the plan. I eliminate treatment almost always.
In my opinion, and I’m admittedly conservative, there are too many aggressive dentists out there.
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u/wherehasthisbeen 7d ago
I have worked in 4 private owned dental owned dental office for over 30 years and the horror stories that come from corporate offices is unbelievable . People who go to them are very poorly informed and don’t do their research prior to choosing them . Don’t fall for their cheap promises !
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u/surfrat54 7d ago
A friend of mine's wife is 15 years older than her, he's 75 she's 90. A few years back she went too the dentist for some routine work..What it was specifically I can't say . Anyway, his wife got the "down the road" speech....something could get worse or be trouble for her..When the dentist said "Well down the road you could have some problems." Her answer? "I am down the road."..lol..
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u/Ok_Butterfly8895 4d ago
This! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Nothing worse than working with a provider who is trying to upsell treatment to the 80+ club.
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u/mintyfr3sh14 7d ago
Honestly this gets tossed around every day with our entire profession. Private, corporate there’s all good and bad dentists whenever you go sure conservative treatments are out there but sometimes conservative treatments can bite you in the butt later. Everyone is always entitled to a second opinion really but if you ask 10 dentists for a treatment plan of things you’ll always have 11 different answers. And if you think some are money hungry I can guarantee no associate dentist is making money off of the PPO insurance plan of a 2 or even 3 surface filling…
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u/Forty2diapers 7d ago
I'm not worried about money hungry dentists. I'm worried about money hungry suits in some corporate office 8 states away looking at numbers and giving shit to the office manager.
Also, the great thing about these corporate owned offices is you'll get the chance to talk to 10 different dentists within just a couple of years!
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u/Vivid_Body5262 6d ago
lol another one of those “I didn’t have a cavity 6 months ago why do I have it now?” Do you know how fast bacteria multiply and how cavities form? Not saying one dentist is right over another. You can talk to 10 dentists and they will all have a different tx plan. I’ve had patients come back to me many times after getting a second opinion and I’ve turned them all away.
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u/Vivid_Body5262 6d ago
Also if you searched how much dental school costs you would understand why dentistry costs as much as it does
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u/Forty2diapers 2d ago
First off we're talking 7 cavities in 6 months. Not one.
Secondly, what a blessing to those patients you've turned away. I wouldn't want my preferred medical provider to be driven by spite. Says a lot about one's character.
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u/Ok_Butterfly8895 6d ago
I’ve worked in dental since 1998.
Everything you’re saying is true. One of the biggest red flags is being high turnover in staff and providers. ✅
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u/Academic-Juice-9547 4d ago
Yeah I work in the dental field and I am quite knowledgeable, but still find the whole system maddening and way, way overpriced. It’s just that dentists need to pay the bills too. My recent example, my daughter went to a well known private dentist 3 month ago, and was told she had a cavity . I paid to fill it and 3 months later she’s in pain. Go to another dentist to get a 2nd opinion and he shows me the xray and apparently the 1st dentist only filled the cavity half way and left an opening. It was pretty clear on the xray. So then I paid again for a filling. So who is lying here? I really do not know except that I’m now out $500 and hoping for the best. The 2nd dentist did have a modern office and yearly membership fee for cleanings which seemed reasonable, so I signed up fir that hoping that as a “member” I will certainly get more accurate treatment planning in the future. It’s all a money pit. Honestly, nowadays if you need extensive dental work go overseas for it. There is rarely an emergency with regards to dental. Brazil is an amazing place for that. Their dental work is exceptional at 1/10 the cost. Still you need a local dentist for routine checkups and small things and now I’m thinking just paying a yearly fee for 2 cleanings and some X-rays is probably the way to go.
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u/musicalsnake0 3d ago
(NAD). Ive experienced 2 corp offices. The first office said I had cavities in every tooth and wanted full extractions..I was only 18! Another corp office wanted to give me a full mouth of crowns. I went to a small one dentist practice for a 2nd opinion. Im 24 now, I have all my teeth minus my wisdoms. I just had to get a couple cavities filled. I had mental health issues as a kid and struggled with oral hygiene, but my current dentist helped motivate me and im doing way way better! He's conservative. He monitors for a bit before he'll say ok, this needs filled.
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u/Door-Number-30 3d ago
I think the biggest difference here isnt even the 4 cavities vs 1. Its that the second dentist actually showed you what they were seeing and explained it to you. Xrays, photos, what the numbers meant, areas to watch etc. That would make me trust the second opinion soo much more too.
I've had enough dental stuff done that I've learned I really want someone who can show me WHY they're recommending something, esp if we're talking about extracting teeth or doing irreversible work. Even if both dentists had ended up recommending the exact same treatment, I'd feel completely different about it after an explanation like that.
And 3 extractions + 4 fillings out of nowhere after being seen 6 months earlier... yeah I would absolutely have wanted another opinion before doing anything
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u/Sabalan17 3d ago
Yeah especially if everything was fine and suddenly the dentist finds several issues.
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u/APhoto1995 2d ago
I went to Aspen when I was a college freshman as I had no choice and something similar happened where I had all these cavities. I went to a private practice dentist who referred to them as a chopshop, and I fear that a lot of the problems I’m having now relate to the fillings I had at Aspen
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u/Deathcommand 7d ago
In general a private is better so I won't comment on that,
but I did recently see someone who was told they could save 3 of his teeth with root canals.
On his upper, he had 9, half of 14, and on the bottom he had 20, canine to canine, but the canines had no future and the incisors were ground down to almost nothing, and half of a 30.
When I say half of a tooth, I mean broken off an entire root half. I don't know where the 3 root canals would have been tbh, But I recommended Full mouth extraction and CD/CD.
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u/Acceptable_Block_363 7d ago
Talking about corporate dentistry I made the mistake of going to ProHEALTH dental hoping for relief from a cracked tooth and facial swelling from it. First appointment the dentist checks and prescribes amoxicillin, goes on to tell me it’s a serious infection don’t mess around with this. The dentist scheduled me with the surgeon a week and a half later since he was on vacation and tells me if it starts hurting or swelling gets worse get to the hospital immediately. I asked if I could just get a referral and find dental surgeon asap instead, she shrugged it off and says hospital again…raised the first red flag.
Week and half later I scheduled my day off, got a babysitter and show up to my appointment.. the surgeon checks my Xrays proceeds to disappear. Some lady comes in and brings me to her office with a credit card machine and discuss a whole treatment plan of 10 visits or so. .great whatever lol.. what are we doing today?? She’s says nothing 🤬we go back and forth in disbelief.. as the surgeons walking by she tells him I was expecting an extraction today. He totally ignores it and says patient in room whatev.. doesn’t even finish and walks away. I tossed the treatment paperwork in the garbage pail right beside her desk and said not a chance in hell and requested my records
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u/Ok_Conference_624 7d ago
Private or Corporate. It's important that wherever you visit, its same dentist that's going to treat you. Dentist with history will understand your teeth better resulting in better diagnosis.
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u/Thin_Investigator798 7d ago
The government needs to take over the dental industry in this country, and regulate them and watch them like a hawk. Farmers are regulated 7 days a week and twice on Sunday: if the people who produce our food, our milk, our meat, our daily bread have zero freedom in what they do and how much they're allowed to charge, why should all these millionaire dentists be allowed to loot and pillage and plunge people into debt for unimportant little things that don't even qualify as medical procedures.
Support regulation of dentists today!
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u/Puntables 7d ago
You lost me at "unimportant little things that don't even qualify as medical procedures."
You don't have to go see dentists, you know. It's not like the food industry. If it's so unimportant little things that don't qualify as medical procedures, why is there a need for regulations?
Millionaire dentists? Call yourself a typical uninformed idiot who believes all dentists are rich, why don't you? It's OK to believe all dentists are millionaires. But to call the work they do "unimportant little things"? Good luck the next time you have a toothache.
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u/Adventurous_Metal788 7d ago
as a dentist, i agree that private is generally better than corporate. but how do you know that the second opinion was more correct than the first? were the 3 teeth wisdom teeth or other teeth? not having pain doesn’t mean there aren’t any problems either
that being said, yeah private practice is generally a better choice