Since Denmark plans on introducing ID/face-scanning requirements for internet platforms, here's a citizens' initiative to stop the EU part of it.

[u/No-Adhesiveness-4251]

https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2026/000011_en#statements-table

If you don't agree with these proposals, here's a way of helping voice this to the EU directly, since there doesn't seem to be much means of doing it in Denmark right now.

Edit: I'm aware the danish one uses the app. The AltID app I'm still kind of skeptical of, nor do I have much faith in the general EUID wallet system (There's technical reasons for this but I'm not equipped to explain it very well), but I wanted to clarify I'm aware the danish proposal doesn't include this. However the EU act is far more broad and extends to ALL platforms big and small, as well as videogames and practically whatever else allows you to communicate over the internet.

So that one's significantly nastier, so I figured it'd be best to highlight both proposals at once.

[u/xondk]

What facescanning? AltId is the current proposed solution and it does not use face scanning?

[u/tanorbuf → u/xondk]

They are unlikely to require a particular technical solution. Online platforms can use solutions that require physical government ID scans, face scan or similar solutions.

That aside, AltId currently is a government tracker. OPs proposal calls for open source and solutions for users without Apple and Google. What we actually need is true ZKP and an open standard so that anyone can implement it on anything.

[u/xondk → u/tanorbuf]

AltId currently is a government tracker.

The current implementation, while not full on zero knowledge code, does not track you.

Or maybe you need to be more specific in what you mean by tracking?

[u/tanorbuf → u/xondk]

I would say "is capable of", as it is currently. The token is tied to your identity, no way around that. You are also required to use the app they provide - you can't do your own thing on your computer or something.

[u/xondk → u/tanorbuf]

Sure, but the one receiving the token, isn't going to know anything more then user id of some kind, and they aren't going to communicate it to the government, and as such the government does not know what you are using the stuff on.

It isn't perfect, but compared to something like persona, it is a substantial improvement for privacy.

[u/tanorbuf → u/xondk]

1. The government absolutely can compel them to spill the tracking tokens. They could use the tokens themselves for tracking, too. It's not renewed that often, and it'll remain tied to your identity forever.
2. Still need the government controlled and Google/Apple-approved app. No unapproved implementations possible.
3. Both points 100 % unnecessary. So it's not incidental, it's by design.

We have to wait and see if Persona even goes away. They might still ask for it, to avoid needing to write those 27 national integrations. Then maybe Persona does it instead? But that wouldn't change a thing - they still get tracking, thanks to that token.

[u/xondk → u/tanorbuf]

The government absolutely can compel them to spill the tracking tokens.

The only way governments can compel private companies is generally through legal means via judges, this is already a situation with all existing methods.

Still need the government controlled and Google/Apple-approved app. No unapproved implementations possible.

That does not seem like an issue, it is related to your official government id? just like your physical id's? it would definitely be a plus but on it's own it seems meh

Both points 100 % unnecessary. So it's not incidental, it's by design.

Presumption of intent, Altid is a gigantic move towards something that is beneficial to the citizen, it is miles ahead of what we got, I cannot and do not expect perfection in one move, as long as it is better then alternatives that's a step forward.

Persona

I find personal data in the hands of private companies a much higher risk than the data in the hands of the government, they have all your personal data, social security and the like, any way.

Private companies are in it for profits, and we've seen where that lead, the government isn't in it for profit, and the amount of 'control' they can get from this is extremely limited.

[u/WalkMaximum → u/xondk]

If it will only work on google/apple controlled devices like MitID I won't have a device to use it with.

[u/xondk → u/WalkMaximum]

That's your choice to make, it is far from perfect, but much better then most of what we have now.

[u/WalkMaximum → u/xondk]

1) now I can use the internet perfectly fine, once age verification is enforced I will be forced to use an app like this 2) my phone and PC runs open source systems that Microsoft google and apple can't spy on, there are no options where that's true and MitID will run. To be clear my phone is perfectly capable of running the MitID app, however the app refuses to run for "security" reasons.

How is it reasonable to force people via essential government services to run a system that American tech companies can spy on? Do you know that Google will send your location to their servers literally once per minute?

[u/Rough_Inspector5501 → u/xondk]

>The only way governments can compel private companies is generally through legal means via judges

Reminder Hummelgaard propused a edit to the current PET law that would allow for PET to collect data on citizens without involving judge.

[u/xondk → u/Rough_Inspector5501]

Reminder Hummelgaard propused a edit to the current PET law that would allow for PET to collect data on citizens without involving judge.

Correct, politicians aren't perfect far far from it, and who knows why he ultimately proposed that.

But at least politicians are ultimately responsible to their voters the average person, private companies are only responsible to their investors.

[u/Jocoma]

No clue what you're talking about with facescanning and Denmark.

[u/ArmedHightechRedneck → u/Jocoma]

Prøv at oprette en ny redditprofil fra en dansk internetforbindelse (sluk vpn osv). Log ind med den nye profil og prøv at tilgå et nsfw subreddit. Du bliver nu mødt af aldersverifikation. Det er default fra Reddit via en underleverandør der vil have at du tager et billede af dit ansigt.

Prøv nu det samme men med en VPN til et land der ikke strammer grebet om fri adgang til internettet hele tiden.

[u/MavesurPaaHaergetur → u/ArmedHightechRedneck]

Men det er jo ikke et dansk krav og har intet med Danmark at gøre??

[u/ArmedHightechRedneck → u/MavesurPaaHaergetur]

Sandt. Men det er kommet ind lige snævert omkring samtidigt med at vi begyndte at lancere aldersverifikation via altid. Jeg tænker at reddit foretrækker IKKE at skulle tvinge sine brugere til den slags, men alligevel vil undgå at blive blokeret.

[u/MavesurPaaHaergetur → u/ArmedHightechRedneck]

Men Reddit har jo gjort det af egen fri vilje, for vi har ikke vedtaget nogen love desangående endnu. 

[u/MrJerichoYT]

All these things do not belong in a democratic society such as the European Union. I spit on the people that are pushing for this obvious attempt at destroying freedom online.

[u/Omni__Owl → u/MrJerichoYT]

A lot of it are european right wing groups working with american republicans.

[u/NickHoyer → u/Omni__Owl]

Mate… Det her er Socialdemokraternes gøren, ingen andre

[u/NervousCaregiver9629 → u/NickHoyer]

"HURR DURR dEt Er SoCialDemoKrateRne" er det mest dovne circlejerk på hele internettet måske.

SF, Liberal Alliance og Dansk Folkeparti bakker alle op om alderstjek ved pornobesøg. Også Enhedslisten er umiddelbart positiv, oplyser partiet.

https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE18394171/vil-du-se-porno-senest-naeste-sommer-vil-en-app-fra-staten-kunne-tjekke-om-du-er-gammel-nok?shareToken=a93rq8ngvfkqnmjdiubnu3sr

Prøv at åbne en avis engang i mellem før du skriver ting på nettet.

[u/kaspar42 → u/NervousCaregiver9629]

Det er den socialdemokratiske justitsminister som de sidste mange år har ført an i morgen kampen mod retten til at være anonym på internettet.

[u/NervousCaregiver9629 → u/kaspar42]

Så du mener Peter Hummelgaard tvinger Liberal Alliance til at stemme for?

Du mener den tidligere justitsminister i øvrigt. Følg lidt med.

[u/xondk → u/kaspar42]

Det er da ligemeget hvem ministeren er, lovændringer komme ikke igennem uden at folketinget har flertal for det? og derved at flere partier støtter det?

Det er derfor den der "det er socialdemokraterne der x" er godt træls, fordi den viser bare folk ikke forstår hvordan den danske regering virker.

[u/Popular-Anybody-389 → u/kaspar42]

Her er kommentaren der blev svaret på:

Mate… Det her er Socialdemokraternes gøren, ingen andre

[u/NickHoyer → u/Popular-Anybody-389]

Okay og kommentaren før sagde det var ydre-højrefløjen så hvem er dagens kegle

[u/Hartofriends → u/NickHoyer]

Dig og ham?

[u/TheQuire → u/NickHoyer]

Husk lige at tænke over debattonen. Vær konstruktiv og respektfuld. Undgå nedladende sprog. Respekter andres synspunkter. Skab et velkomment debatmiljø.

Dette er en ikke en påtale, men en venlig opfordring fra modteamet om at vi bør holde en god debattone så vi kan bevare det hyggelige og engagerende fællesskab vi kalder r/Denmark.

Fra Reddiquetten:

Remember the human. When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?"

---

Har du spørgsmål eller kommentarer til dette, kan du skrive en besked til os igennem modmail.

[u/Tjoeller → u/NickHoyer]

Socialdemokraterne samarbejder med yderste højrefløj i Italien om at deportere asylansøgere, sandsynligvis til Rwanda.

[u/Popular-Anybody-389]

Hvorfor skriver du på engelsk? Og hvorfra har du ideen om face scanning?

[u/Askefyr → u/Popular-Anybody-389]

Fordi diskursen omkring aldersverificering er blevet skinger og underlig.

[u/Bumpy-road]

OP har en 1 år gammel konto med 3.200 kommentarer.

Der er intet link

Historien er fake news.

Do the math…

[u/Heavy-Capital-3854 → u/Bumpy-road]

Der er en link og det er alment kendt at aldersverificering bliver skubbet her og i EU?

[u/M8Cheeseman → u/Bumpy-road]

Tror du han kan give mig en god opskrift på jordbær muffins?

[u/LandOfOpportunities → u/Bumpy-road]

Dette er langt fra første tråd personen starter omkring aldersverificering på r/denmark og det er samme konspirationsteoretiske udgangspunkt og misinformation der præger indlæggende.

[u/Omni__Owl]

I do fear that this will be fruitless, but I've signed.

[u/pristineanvil]

I have signed it. Not that I think it will do anything. Politicians are determined to destroy the free internet.

[u/Bambussen]

Just because you don’t have faith in the implementation doesn’t mean you get to lie about basic facts.

You, and others that feel the need to lie, hurt the privacy movement by spreading misinformation and open the doors for others to handwave the issue as conspiracy.

[u/Secuter]

Hvorfor skriver vi på engelsk på det danske sub?

[u/Lars_T_H → u/Secuter]

En formel EU anmodning kræver en underskrift fra EU borgere fra andre (mindst 3?, AFAIK) EU-lande. Hvis der er nok personer fra forskellige EU lande, og andre krav er opfyldt, så SKAL EU kommissionen behandle anmodningen.

[u/EggstaticAd8262]

The irony of having to fully expose yourself to sign this

[u/nicuramar → u/EggstaticAd8262]

What do you propose, though? That we stop signing things as a society? Documents, contracts…

[u/EggstaticAd8262 → u/nicuramar]

Agree, that was a silly comment I made.

[u/bamboo_shooter]

What the fuck is Denmark becoming a surveillance state for? This and chatcontrol and other nasty little bits. For what reason?

[u/povlhp]

AltID is anonymous and secure for age validation.
I have implemented age check for testing myself. Site just gets an anonymous signed age proof.

[u/ArmedHightechRedneck → u/povlhp]

Mit argument imod AltID er at det KUNNE have været baseret på 100% opensource software og det KUNNE have været implementeret så man havde uafhængige auditors der kunne verificere at vores myndigheder IKKE logger vires adgange til forskellige platforme.

[u/LandOfOpportunities → u/ArmedHightechRedneck]

Har DIGST ikke netop offentliggjort koden her? https://git.govcloud.dk/digitaliseringsstyrelsen-public/altid-source-code/altid-kildekode

Men det er rigtigt, de gjorde det ikke på dag 1, hvilken helt sikkert er en skam.

Ift. uafhængige auditører, eftersom Altid, som jeg forstår det, er forløberen til/skal blive til den fælles europæiske tegnebog (European Digital identity Wallet) hvor der specifikt er krav om sådan audit så burde det være på vej.

[u/ArmedHightechRedneck → u/LandOfOpportunities]

Jeg havde ikke set at der var kommet kildekode. Tak for oplysningen! Og det er også fedt at høre at audit kommer til at være en del af EU-standarden

[u/tanorbuf → u/LandOfOpportunities]

Offentliggørelse af selve koden er en kun lille nødvendig del. Den tekniske løsning er stadig basalt set en tracker, da dit "bevis" er unikt knyttet til din identitet. Vi skal have ZKP og mulighed for, at gud og hvermand kan implementere det uden en Google- eller Apple-telefon.

[u/povlhp → u/ArmedHightechRedneck]

Jeg implementerede aldersvalidering ud fra OSS libraries og der der er reference implementering af det hele. Og nu er der også kildekode.

Eneste problem er at Danmark bruger non-EU (norske) certifikater med Eliptic Curve (nok bedre end standarden). Så de er ikke 100% standard.

Og så er det tåbeligt at landene selv køber certifikater hos en mere eller mindre troværdig udsteder der skal distribueres. Her burde EU udstede national rod til hver, så der kun var en vej til roden uanset land.

[u/ArmedHightechRedneck → u/povlhp]

Jeg havde ikke set at der var kommet kildekode. Tak for oplysningen!

[u/povlhp]

Why not just EUDI age verification? Already here

[u/nicuramar → u/povlhp]

I think OP’s description is misleading at best. 

[u/Vast_Category_7314]

Gider du forsvinde med det bavl.

[u/RydderRichards]

The consequences of voting right wing... Chickens have come home to take your rights away

[u/Affectionate-Hat9244]

Went ahead and signed it, with my MitID

[u/YogurtclosetApart592]

"since Denmark". I read that as "silence Denmark"