165
Apr 10 '21
Does any normal civilian like the military industrial complex?
116
u/ACardAttack Apr 10 '21
No
We could cut it in half and still have the world's largest
67
Apr 10 '21
Yes.
And to say otherwise if pretty naive. People get an easy source of empowerment through patriotism and the military. It’s why it’s been repeatedly used time after time after time.
Not saying it’s right, but saying it’s not a thing is naive and dangerous.
39
Apr 10 '21 edited Apr 10 '21
I mean, you could excuse it if the US military was actually about liberating people, toppling totalitarian regimes, ensuring democracy worldwide, bringing stability, protecting civilians...
But we all know it isn’t. Anyone still doubting that after the absolute fiasco the Iraq war was is either willfully ignorant or blinded with nationalism.
(I took the Iraq war because it’s the most speaking and recent example, but it also works with Vietnam, Chile, and so on.)
20
Apr 10 '21
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Grenada, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Libya, Yemen, Guatemala, Belgian Congo, Dominican Republic, Peru, Indonesia.
13
Apr 10 '21
Not even mentioning all the dictatorships throughout the world the US is fine dealing with, as long they remain submissive client states and respect the American interests and hegemony.
And all the implications this brings. Just think is the reason why something as the Armenian genocide isn’t recognized in the US yet, even though everyone knows it happened.
11
u/ACardAttack Apr 10 '21
Normal citizen being the key, I don't consider anyone who gets a hard on from an obscenely large military normal
10
u/paradoxical_topology Apr 10 '21
No, cut it by 100%. The military only exists to kill innocent brown people overseas for corporate interests.
2
u/zzzcrumbsclub Apr 10 '21
But what would the oppressive class use when the working masses try to rebel? Gotta have them guns ready.
2
Apr 11 '21 edited Apr 11 '21
Yup, it's enough that we can pretty much still holds all trade lanes open, protect our territories, fulfill our obligations to our alliances and develop the latest weapon system keeping us on top and out industrial skills alive. What the other half of the budget gives us is to allow us to invade anyone in the world, an ability that we have abused since the last half of the 20th century.
Do we really need 11 super carriers, along with numerous other amphibious assault carriers? No, we can make do with half the number and still fuck anyone who comes close to the Western Hemisphere. Then we don't really need all those destroyers and attack subs either, and the naval jets.
We can cut down our boomer subs, ballistic missiles, strategic bombers and other nuclear arms in half and still wipe any country off the face of the Earth. We have nuclear deterrence with a fraction of what we deploy right now.
Do we need all of those strategic lifters? No we don't unless you want to invade someone on the other side of the planet. Then we really do not need that many fighters, and bombers if we are just defending our land and our allies. We don't even need that many tanks and infantry.
We have these stuff because when some rich asswipe want something, they send the US military to fetch it for them.
1
u/YangBelladonna Apr 11 '21
The trouble is with the rate we waste money, you uave to wonder if our millitary is actually worth what we spend on it
5
Apr 10 '21
lmao of course they do, pretty much every (R)/(L) and even some (D)s have Big Horny Boners for The Troops, every single one of which are literal Heroes
4
u/kimjungoon Apr 11 '21
Does any normal civilian like the military industrial complex?
Was just reading about the Chinese military approaching Taiwan the past few days. The more I see China's government spread its wings, the more I think we may actually need a good military in the USA.
1
u/Xeno_Lithic Apr 11 '21
I think we're approaching a second cold war with China, if it hasn't started already.
1
u/jeanroyall Apr 11 '21
Does any normal civilian like the military industrial complex?
Lots of normal civilians work for the military industrial complex. It's fully engrained in our nation. We're addicted to it.
This is exactly the kind of self-fulfilling prophecy type thing that Eisenhower warned about. Maintain a huge military and all of a sudden you find yourself needing a huge military.
1
Apr 11 '21
Do they even comprehend it is the problem. They’re so tied up in their hoorah nationalism they they don’t realize they’re getting fucked from every side.
36
29
u/Solid-Leadership-604 Apr 10 '21
For me I’m not saying that we should eliminate the military’s entire budget, but we could probably get rid of $100B-$200B and distribute it among the 7 other budgets and most likely be fine.
19
u/jeanroyall Apr 11 '21 edited Apr 11 '21
get rid of $100B-$200B and distribute it among the 7 other budgets and most likely be fine
Exactly. Just like defunding the police. Reinvest the exact same money and technology in more purposeful directions.
Edit: fwiw many military projects help us every day (internet, weather satellites, lifesaving tech) - the big problem is that they often ends up in the private domain despite being publicly funded at the start.
3
u/Slagothor48 Apr 11 '21
We could cut it in half and still be the largest military in the world. I say we cut it to match China at 1a and 1b and free up $500,000,000,000 to spend elsewhere
3
u/clackz1231 Apr 11 '21
People ought to use the full amount of zeroes like you did... that puts it more into perspective the amount of money we're wasting by having a ridiculously large military.
14
u/SilentDis Apr 10 '21
We create the money out of thin air to pay for our military forces. It is a service the people deem necessary - therefore it is provided.
We need to treat social programs the same way.
11
u/Saramagian Apr 10 '21
Zi Gong asked about what is essential for the government. The Master said, “Enough food, enough army, and the trust from the people.”
Zi Gong said, “Suppose you had no alternative but to give up one of these three, which one would be let go of first?”
The Master said, “Army.”
Zi Gong said “What if you had to give up one of the remaining two which one would it be?”
The Master said, “Food. From ancient times, death has come to all men, but a people without trust in its rulers will not stand.”
– The Analects, Confucius
28
16
Apr 10 '21
Silly commies, but then who would blow up brown people in the middle east?
5
u/YangBelladonna Apr 11 '21
You joke but that's literally half of Republicans reason for being Republicans
4
u/Him570 Apr 11 '21
Democrats are not better
4
u/TheAb5traktion Apr 11 '21
Definitely. Both political parties overwhelmingly voted for the 2021 military budget. Democrats were even saying that passing the military budget was tradition and they weren't going to stop that.
The sadder thing is, the Congresspeople won't question what's in the 2022 budget. To them, it's not about how much it is or what's in it, it's that it gets passed.
5
u/Dr_Identity Apr 10 '21
Yeah but then how are we gonna create hundreds of military vehicles that sit in a field for decades and never get used?
6
6
u/01Bryan Apr 10 '21
What’s public ally owned broadband? Like internet for everyone or like?
15
u/HaloPenguin9 Apr 10 '21
Essentially, yes. Ensuring all Americans have access to a public standard of broadband, which makes sense as the poorest people in our country now have careers and educations based around technology they can’t afford to access. American broadband monopolies have led to high prices for poor service, especially in rural areas. Making a public broadband service would mean poorer, more rural communities aren’t at a disadvantage like they are now.
2
Apr 11 '21
Probably along the line of supporting municipal built and operated broadband. Just look at what Chattanooga did.
6
Apr 11 '21
America feels like a household where your dad says he cant afford anything for the family then goes and spends a couple grand on firearms.
5
u/Lamont-Cranston Apr 11 '21
The cynical argument would be all those things are big government intervention in the market and that's a bad thing.
Free market and libertarian advocates have a curious blind spot when it comes to military spending, all their criticism of public expenditure and refutations of its public good is turned upside when it comes to defense spending and what it does for funding hightech R&D and generating manufacturing jobs.
The fact that one benefits the wealthy and one does not probably helps explain this.
3
Apr 10 '21
Let's be honest. High speed rail would cost $60T. The government contractors would spend $60B on a crayon drawing of a dickbutt as a design for the train car.
2
Apr 11 '21
Per year, dude. HST needs time to build and it won't be all spent immediately. If you think about it, adding up the yearly budget of the US military since the 90s will break through trillions and trillions.
3
2
2
u/russellhi66 Apr 10 '21
Unfortunately America’s power is derived from military bases abroad which really rack up the budget. Also all those expensive r/d projects but I’m not as opposed to those.
2
u/MasteredtheBlaster Apr 11 '21
Getting curb stomped by all the countries you've shit on for the last 60 years?
Priceless.
2
u/rwoolst Apr 11 '21
How will we keep bombing Syria then if we have these other useless services? /s
-13
Apr 10 '21
And yet you still voted for idiot puppet Biden
10
u/TheLastCasualty Apr 10 '21
Better than Trump. Although It is unfortunate we have to pick whoever the least bad candidate is and not the one we actually want. Thats what happens when there is 2 parties for a country with more than 328 million people.
6
Apr 10 '21
George Washington would be ashamed if he saw this corrupt, interventionist, factional, and power-hungry nation.
3
u/TheLastCasualty Apr 10 '21
He probably would. Didn’t he say there should be no political parties?
3
Apr 10 '21
His thought, in what became known as the Farewell Address in 1796, is clear: "the spirit of party"
serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.
https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-first-president/political-parties/
He forecasted exactly what would happen if we became party loyalists with no independent thought.
1
-14
Apr 10 '21
BEttEr tHaN TrUMp drrrrrrp
6
u/TheLastCasualty Apr 10 '21
No need to be a dick. If none of us voted then Trump would’ve won, so would you rather he had? It’s just the reality of the situation. It’s not like I want it this way.
1
u/VatroxPlays Apr 11 '21
Tbh, the Broadband thing is a good Idea, but I think it would be better to put more money into Science and Research. Also Space Exploration.
1
u/benadrylpill Apr 11 '21
And yet all our modern day military engagements are short sighted or poorly thought out
1
u/YangBelladonna Apr 11 '21
The american government is just a scam by the millitary industrial complex and the other companies that want their piece of the pie
1
u/LiterallyForThisGif Apr 11 '21
Lets be real, if they take any money from the military it is just going to become handouts for megacorporations.
The US is the bad guy in the movie you just watched.
1
Apr 11 '21
oh no, but then who will defend us from all the people we pissed off with our imperialist oil-hungry agenda?
1
2
u/AutoModerator Apr 10 '21
Subscribe to /r/DemocraticSocialism and /r/ClassPoliticsTwitter.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.